NEW StrangeBrew Elsinore Thread

[wyzazz]

I got it working in mock up. I'm using a crydom ssr hooked up to some reptile tape for duty cycle testing. So far it's working right. My only concern is with the way the gpio handles it's state when not called upon. I also have a 2channel relay board hooked up for switches and when Elsinore isn't running it's like the pins are producing a small amount of current, almost like it's between inverted and not inverted. The ssr board dimly lights up on both channels until the jar file fires up, then it behaves appropriately. Also I have a major concern with using the pi to drive SSRs directly. I don't know if it's a usual occurrence but I advise not hooking up the mains power to the ssr until you setup the pid in the software then REBOOT before trying to use the ssr. Every time I tried to setup the pid I'd get pulsing on the ssr pin until I totally shut down the system and then restarted. And that is a big no no in my book. I thought it was because I was using a known bad ssr because it had an activity led built in. But it was, in fact, the gpio pulsating for no ****ing reason, even if I turned it off and shutdown Elsinore. I am going to drive the ssr with a fet or tranny like is recommended but even so I think I'll have to write up a small script that waits until Elsinore is loaded to trip a main relay so I don't have as much worry of dry firing or something worse.

I wonder if something isn't wrong with the hardware in your PI? Mine does not behave like this at all.

 

[user 101620]

a small amount of current, almost like it's between inverted and not inverted. The ssr board dimly lights up on both channels until the jar file fires up, then it behaves appropriately.

This is standard on almost all boards, pins are not initialized by default and they are floating.

Also I have a major concern with using the pi to drive SSRs directly. I don't know if it's a usual occurrence but I advise not hooking up the mains power to the ssr until you setup the pid in the software

This is electrical safety 101... Never make a system live until you are going to use it.

then REBOOT before trying to use the ssr.

Unless you have Elsinore (or another script) setup to run at boot, the GPIOs will go back to floating.

Every time I tried to setup the pid I'd get pulsing on the ssr pin until I totally shut down the system and then restarted.

Which mode of Pi are you using? I wonder if there's hardware changes.

And that is a big no no in my book. I thought it was because I was using a known bad ssr because it had an activity led built in. But it was, in fact, the gpio pulsating for no ****ing reason, even if I turned it off and shutdown Elsinore. I am going to drive the ssr with a fet or tranny like is recommended but even so I think I'll have to write up a small script that waits until Elsinore is loaded to trip a main relay so I don't have as much worry of dry firing or something worse.

Again, this is what happens with all GPIO pins in my experience, they aren't designed to be initialized on startup (you can initialize to IN, OUT, various PWM/I2C modes, etc...)

Never ever plug the mains in, or use a kill switch when the system is not in use. Electrical safety 101.

 

[TechyDork]

Also I have a major concern with using the pi to drive SSRs directly. I don't know if it's a usual occurrence but I advise not hooking up the mains power to the ssr until you setup the pid in the software then REBOOT before trying to use the ssr.

I would highly recommend that you have a switch to kill all power to the SSR/element/pump when not in use. You could put a switch on the control signal wire from the GPIO to the SSR, or switch the main power to the element.

In my system i am controlling the SSRs directly from the GPIO pins on my Pi. I have a three position switch ON OFF ON, that kills the power to the contactors for the HLT and BK elements. Only one element can run at a time and when the switch is off no power is flowing to either element on either leg of the 220 because the contactors are both open.

See theelectricbrewery.com for more info, that is what i based my build off.

If no power is getting to the load side of the SSR then there is no danger of the element firing during startup of the Pi.

 

[wbarber69]

This is standard on almost all boards, pins are not initialized by default and they are floating.







This is electrical safety 101... Never make a system live until you are going to use it.







Unless you have Elsinore (or another script) setup to run at boot, the GPIOs will go back to floating.







Which mode of Pi are you using? I wonder if there's hardware changes.







Again, this is what happens with all GPIO pins in my experience, they aren't designed to be initialized on startup (you can initialize to IN, OUT, various PWM/I2C modes, etc...)



Never ever plug the mains in, or use a kill switch when the system is not in use. Electrical safety 101.

Floating is one thing. Randomly pulsing on and off is another. Especially after initialization. And while I know better than to have the system powered up without a controller I don't have issues like this from arduinos. Yes the pins "float" but not like this. I'm using a b+ rev 1.2 for my testing. I've never actually used a pi for the controlling part of anything before. I've stuck to systems where the pi calls for an arduino to do all the heavy lifting and just logs the data or fires off scripts to have the arduinos act upon. My concern is with the SSRs. If something locks up or reboots out of turn and you forget to shut the power off you could do a lot of damage. What I'm envisioning a simple check to see if Elsinore is running then trip a safety relay so no power is given to the other relays until it's active. I'm using mypin pids right now and I have a safety switch for each element and main power and I still sometimes forget to turn something on or off from time to time. It's a lot different with just about everything moving over to a touchscreen display. I'd like the peace of mind of knowing that there will be something in place to handle that. Maybe one day it could be written in to the main Elsinore code itself. Just a single gpio to handle tripping a 2 or 3 pole mechanical relay for mains power. Other than these issues I've had, I can say that I'm impressed with all the work you've put in. Waiting on some things to arrive from China, and was thinking about how I could go about using a sonic sensor to read water levels. I don't know if it was ever an idea you thought of before going the air bubbler route. The way you have it setup now requires an analog one wire device that is no longer being produced. And the sonic sensors are digital. I didn't see anywhere in the ui where I could use a digital io for this.

 

[user 101620]

I didn't see anywhere in the ui where I could use a digital io for this.

Unfortunately I don't have unlimited money, this is free software, and things take time to be done. However, it is open source, so you're more than welcome to contribute to the project.

The problem with sonic ranges is the steam gets in the way, and the surface bubbles reducing accuracy during a boil.

As for your other points, no-one else has reported this issue except for you, maybe your SSRs are more tolerant of the range provided by the floating GPIOs, many people use logic level converters, FETs and other things, however, I'm not an EE, so I cannot advise.

 

[wbarber69]

I fully intend to use fet's and proper resistors and such once I start the build out. But this pulsing io is a bit puzzling to me. Since I started from scratch and wiped everything out figuring it was some kind of bug. But it carried over to the new setup. As far as using the sonic range sensor. I was intending to put it facing down a sightglass. I already know it's not necessarily gonna work. Just an idea. And I never intended to use it in the boil just in my hlt. And maybe down the road something similar in the mlt so I could eventually use it to control the pumps for precision fly sparging.

 

[JayElDubya]

Have you tried putting a small filter cap on the io pin to ground? That might help with the flutter.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I fully intend to use fet's and proper resistors and such once I start the build out. But this pulsing io is a bit puzzling to me. Since I started from scratch and wiped everything out figuring it was some kind of bug. But it carried over to the new setup. As far as using the sonic range sensor. I was intending to put it facing down a sightglass. I already know it's not necessarily gonna work. Just an idea. And I never intended to use it in the boil just in my hlt. And maybe down the road something similar in the mlt so I could eventually use it to control the pumps for precision fly sparging.

Maybe some sort of magnetic hall sensor outside the sight glass reading a magnetic sensor floating inside? Probably more work than a sonic one...

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Another weird question for others, i am pretty sure im going to do it regardless but i figured i'd check

Based on how my box is sized and where my power cord comes in i cant really use the cable relief that came with the cord...

My plan was to get the cable into place(it barely fits through the hole i drilled) and jbweld the **** out of it to the box from the inside, which should be as strong or stronger than the cable relief? I mean im mounting the box to a stand eventually so it will never move, i guess it just needs to be trip proof to some extent but with ring connectors on the end going to a terminal block + jbweld i fail to see how it could possibly fail even if i held the cable and threw it off a building.

 

[Mikeliverpooluk]

With regard to the pulsing relays mine does the same thing. I'm running a pi 2 I have 2 ssr's and 4 mechanical relays. The pulsing only occurs when I apply a gpio to a relay when I am setting the whole system up for the very first time. It is a very regular pulsing 1 second on 1 second off. As soon as a reboot and on all subsequent on/offs it doesn't happen again. So as it only occurs when I first set Elsinore as a fresh install up it doesn't worry me. I have now done 2 brews with Elsinore and my beer is currently in the kegerator being held at a tasty 8.0c !elsinore has not been switched off for about 2 months.

On a safety not - I never turn the master switch to power my elements until I am happy everything I'd functioning correctly

Happy brewing

Mike

 

[user 101620]

Another weird question for others, i am pretty sure im going to do it regardless but i figured i'd check

Based on how my box is sized and where my power cord comes in i cant really use the cable relief that came with the cord...

My plan was to get the cable into place(it barely fits through the hole i drilled) and jbweld the **** out of it to the box from the inside, which should be as strong or stronger than the cable relief? I mean im mounting the box to a stand eventually so it will never move, i guess it just needs to be trip proof to some extent but with ring connectors on the end going to a terminal block + jbweld i fail to see how it could possibly fail even if i held the cable and threw it off a building.

You can get strain reliefs to fit holes. Look up "strain relief grommets"

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

You can get strain reliefs to fit holes. Look up "strain relief grommets"

Thanks i managed to find one and its on its way tommorrow, should be the last thing i need before putting the electronics in.

With 3 Contactors, RPI, 2 Relay Sainsmart board and a 12V power supply its going to be a damn tight fit.

I think im going to have to mount my terminal block to the side wall, i cant decide if i should just jbweld it or screw it through the wall with some m3 plastic screws and bolts.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Brew on

It is my preference to have transistor terminals referenced appropriately. In this case, the base of the transistor, I would give it a reference to ground. This can be taken care with a 10K resistor. Put the resistor from the node between GPIO Pin and the left terminal of the base resistor to ground.

This keeps the base from flapping in the wind.

Resistors are cheap enough to make it a habit.

The value of the collector resistor strikes me as unnecessarily low. I am going to guess you could use a value like 2.2K. The lower the value of the resistor, the more current it will draw and that will take away from the current total budget of an R-pi.

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

You can get strain reliefs to fit holes. Look up "strain relief grommets"

Hmmm from what i can tell i need a 1" hole for any of the strain reliefs for a 5/8" cable like this is. If im just missing something and you know of something else let me know otherwise i may have to plug this hole and drill another one somewhere else i dont think i can get it to 1" before hitting the side wall.

I think im going to have to plug that hole and come in from the side of the box which is the only place with space for a hole that big.

 

[Bum Fudge]

I'm having trouble getting my system to recognize the DS2450 and PH Sensor. I have used the same hardware as Doug and hokked it up to my onewire bus which works fine for temp probes.

Voltages are good but I could use some advice on how to troubleshoot this better.
Tx

JT

 

[user 101620]

WARNING: RaspberryPi has updated to Linux Kernel 4.0 by default, I don't actively use the Pi for my development, and as such, I don't know if it will cause any issues with Elsinore, if anyone wants to try it with Elsinore, feel free, but if you see any issues please report them with as much detail as possible.

 

[user 101620]

I'm having trouble getting my system to recognize the DS2450 and PH Sensor. I have used the same hardware as Doug and hokked it up to my onewire bus which works fine for temp probes.

Voltages are good but I could use some advice on how to troubleshoot this better.
Tx

JT

Are you using OWFS?

 

[Hockyplr]

I use the same temp probes and xlr connectors that are used on The Electric brewery build, in fact I purchased them from them.

My question, as I know nothing about Raspberry Pi, but am intrigued, and about ready to re-do my stand as I want to go to 100% electric, will those probes work with a Raspberry Pi and your software?

My thoughts are, getting a raspberry Pi, and maybe a 7-10.1 inch touch screen and placing that in an enclosure, and running your software wireless from my own network here at home.

As I have some cash already tied up into the probes and cables and connectors, I am hoping I can re-use for this possible upcoming project.

Any thoughts and help would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Stephen

 

[wbarber69]

I use the same temp probes and xlr connectors that are used on The Electric brewery build, in fact I purchased them from them.



My question, as I know nothing about Raspberry Pi, but am intrigued, and about ready to re-do my stand as I want to go to 100% electric, will those probes work with a Raspberry Pi and your software?



My thoughts are, getting a raspberry Pi, and maybe a 7-10.1 inch touch screen and placing that in an enclosure, and running your software wireless from my own network here at home.



As I have some cash already tied up into the probes and cables and connectors, I am hoping I can re-use for this possible upcoming project.



Any thoughts and help would be much appreciated.



Thank you,



Stephen

If you are using pt100 proves then, no, they will not work with Elsinore. But the good news is that you can buy 5-10 Dallas probes for around the same price as one of the pt100 probes.

 

[user 101620]

My question, as I know nothing about Raspberry Pi, but am intrigued, and about ready to re-do my stand as I want to go to 100% electric, will those probes work with a Raspberry Pi and your software?

Not at this point, an adapter would cost $15 per probe and I don't have any.

 

[Hockyplr]

Not at this point, an adapter would cost $15 per probe and I don't have any.

could you point me to the correct Adapter?

 

[wbarber69]

Not at this point, an adapter would cost $15 per probe and I don't have any.

Most of those adapters I've seen are for k-type the pt 100 uses 3 wires and most adapters only have 2 wire inputs. And like I said you can get a pack of 5 dallas probes for less than 15 bucks.

 

[wbarber69]

could you point me to the correct Adapter?

Looking on eBay I see about 3 different models. The one that might work in your case has no price. Just a send me a quite form. Which means it's likely hundreds of dollars. One only uses 4 wire rtd probes which would mean you'd have to cut yours apart and pull the resistor out and add the fourth wire yourself. The other one is in all Chinese, and I can't really tell if it was what I was actually looking for. I'm doing the exact same thing you are proposing (waiting on touchscreen from Amazon as we speak) and I've bought numerous Dallas probes for other projects. You could build your own for even cheaper, but buying new probes is the way to go. I mean there will be a dignitary cost because now I'll need thermowells instead of the screw in probes I had before. But after fighting with the pt100s just about everytime I fire up my system because they don't like if a single wire is 1 mm longer than the other, I can tell you the Dallas probes are the way to go. First off you won't be back here trying to get everyone else in the forum to help you with a piece of hardware that no one else uses. Secondly, if you at afraid of how durable they are or how long they'll last, just go to alibaba and buy a 100 pack. There are a multitude of sellers on eBay and they are all super cheap.

 

[user 101620]

You need to use a MAX31865 based board, http://www.playingwithfusion.com/productview.php?pdid=25 something like this.

I would "like" to use them, but I can't justify the cost (mainly I want them for my smoker)

 

[wbarber69]

Duplicate

 

[Bum Fudge]

Are you using OWFS?

Yes I am. The servers say they are started when my system starts up and I can go to port 2121 and browse the directory.

JT

 

[user 101620]

Yes I am. The servers say they are started when my system starts up and I can go to port 2121 and browse the directory.

JT

Can you see the DS2540 when you're in OWFS? What's the address?

 

[user 101620]

Fixed some UI issues.

Graph now renders correctly
Preview graph now has correct labels
"Send Command" button is now correctly styled.
Mode buttons and "Send command" buttons are now centered correctly.

 

[Bum Fudge]

Can you see the DS2540 when you're in OWFS? What's the address?

I don't seem to see it. I do see the temp probes.

I checked voltages and I have 5 volts and the blue LED on the PH sensor board is lit.

In my /sys/devices/w1_bus-master1/ directory I have the 4 temp probes listed (28-000003faxxxx) and then another directory 20-00000014ec6f which I assumed was the DS2450.

JT

 

[user 101620]

I don't seem to see it. I do see the temp probes.

I checked voltages and I have 5 volts and the blue LED on the PH sensor board is lit.

In my /sys/devices/w1_bus-master1/ directory I have the 4 temp probes listed (28-000003faxxxx) and then another directory 20-00000014ec6f which I assumed was the DS2450.

JT

The 20 family is the DS2450, but if it's not showing up in OWFS that's beyond the scope of elsinore.