New Danstar Belle Saison Dry Yeast?

[skunkfunk]

My second saison (the one with 50% pils 50% wheat and light hopping) went really really dry. Mashed high but the yeast laughed at silly ideas about mashing high resulting in higher FG and went to town anyway.

So dry it has a bit of a sour tang since there's so little maltose left to balance natural beer acidity. Still tasty and very drinkable but the esters kind of dominate a bit. Tastes like a dry "summer" hefe. Doesn't really taste "thin" like a commercial lager or somesuch, has decent mouthfeel just not even the slightest bit sweet.

My third saison (the one you're quoting about) just tastes like a mouthfull of trubby wort now, too early in the fermentation process to know yet.

SWMBO wants something sweet and low in alcohol and I don't have the temp control for anything but saison so thinking:
-2 kilos pils.
-2 kilos munich.
-450 grams crystal 40l.
-Dilute with top-off water until the gravity gets down to 1.033 or so.
-Mash high.
-Veeeeeeery few hops.

Inspired by a clone recipe for Kozel dark (very sweet but tasty malty/caramelly Czech dark lager that my wife loves) I found but without any roasted malts. Looking for something along the lines of an amber psuedo-mild, will call it Nice Guy Ale. Next up will be a saison psuedo-ESB...

I'd suggest one of the trappist yeasts instead of saison yeast if you want anything resembling sweet. I suppose you could use the DuPont strain and just let it stall high?

 

[rhys333]

The high mash and crystal won't help with residual sweetness. You might try WY 3711 instead. It performs the same but to me it doesn't come across as super dry. Instead of Crystal, perhaps try wheat also.

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

+1 for wheat

 

[Bosh]

This yeast can eat through the normally unfermentable sugars in crystal malt? Seeing how fast it tore through my three batches and how dry it got that doesn`t seem unbelievable...

 

[rhys333]

This yeast can eat through the normally unfermentable sugars in crystal malt? Seeing how fast it tore through my three batches and how dry it got that doesn`t seem unbelievable...

Yes, it'll ferment your gym socks if you let it.

 

[tennesseean_87]

So I went with 51% pils, 27% rye, 16% Wheat malt, 4% caramel 20, 2% acid malt for mash pH. Mash was way high--over 160 for the first 10-15 minutes while I stirred and checked to bring it down, then sat at 156-8 for the rest of the time. I brewed Saturday morning and Monday evening it had gone from 1.044 to 1.006 (measured at 80+ degrees), but is still super cloudy. Taste had a bit of tang, but great aroma from the zest addition I did at flameout.

Edit: this was a 4 gallon batch that I got better-than expected efficiency on, so I diluted to 4.25. That may explain some of the quick ferment, along with the warm ferm temps I used.

 

[Bosh]

I'd suggest one of the trappist yeasts instead of saison yeast if you want anything resembling sweet. I suppose you could use the DuPont strain and just let it stall high?

Are there any that can do OK in hot August weather with ****-all in the way of temp control?

Think I'll just use Belle Saison since the dry yeast is easy to use. If even a bunch of caramel malt can't sweeten it up then oh well, it'll be tasty anyway.

The thing is making an IPA without much hops is dumb since that defeats the point of an IPA and making a pale stout is dumb since that defeats the point of making a stout. In both of those cases you can just make another beer instead. But making a sweeter saison isn't necessarily dumb since I CAN'T make another beer instead, I'm pretty much stuck with saisons until the weather cools down and I don't want every single beer I brew for months and months to be bone dry.

Worth an experiment at least. It'll be for guests anyway. For myself I'm eyeing making a strong Saison-braggot that'll be golden and as dry as a bone with maybe some Northern Brewer hops...

 

[alhounos]

I think you'll just have to wait until the temp gets below 72 or so... anything but a saison yeast would be gross at high temps.

You could possibly go extreme by halting fermentation at your desired FG with pasteurization or chemicals, but I don't have any experience with that.

 

[rhys333]

Are there any that can do OK in hot August weather with ****-all in the way of temp control?

Think I'll just use Belle Saison since the dry yeast is easy to use. If even a bunch of caramel malt can't sweeten it up then oh well, it'll be tasty anyway.

The thing is making an IPA without much hops is dumb since that defeats the point of an IPA and making a pale stout is dumb since that defeats the point of making a stout. In both of those cases you can just make another beer instead. But making a sweeter saison isn't necessarily dumb since I CAN'T make another beer instead, I'm pretty much stuck with saisons until the weather cools down and I don't want every single beer I brew for months and months to be bone dry.

Worth an experiment at least. It'll be for guests anyway. For myself I'm eyeing making a strong Saison-braggot that'll be golden and as dry as a bone with maybe some Northern Brewer hops...

I got shouted down in another thread, but if you want saison and you want it sweet, add an unfermentable sugar such as lactose or xylitol. Not to my tastes personally, but this will give some residual sugars the yeast cannot chew through

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Yes, it'll ferment your gym socks if you let it.

So I Take it that this yeast wouldn't be ideal in a Biere de garde?

 

[govner1]

So I Take it that this yeast wouldn't be ideal in a Biere de garde?

Not necessarily, Wyeast says you can use 3711 for this style but you might consider a Trappist or other high gravity Belgian yeast

 

[z-bob]

I just bought a packet of Belle Saison today at the other LHBS to brew something in the summer heat, and now not sure what to do with it because of its super-high attenuation. I have a lot of American pale ale malt. I'm thinking either a high-gravity SMaSH using I'm not sure which hop (maybe Willamette). Or a Hoegaarden-ish wit using 60% pale ale malt and 40% unmalted wheat with bitter orange and coriander.

 

[markstache]

I did a Belgian pale where I pitched wyeast Belgian Ardennes first and pitched belle saison after two days. It was a nice blend of the flavor of the ardennes year with most of the attenuation of BS.

 

[pwortiz]

I think you'll just have to wait until the temp gets below 72 or so... anything but a saison yeast would be gross at high temps.

You could possibly go extreme by halting fermentation at your desired FG with pasteurization or chemicals, but I don't have any experience with that.

I think you get away with the Belgian Trappist and Abbey strains at high temps. The clone of Westvleteren 12 I made called for 83+. I've actually got a Belgian specialty sitting in my basement this week that might have hit around 87-88 because I have a brew belt on it (WLP500).

Some of the guys in the club have pushed 90 and their product was excellent!

 

[Shenanigans]

I haven't gone through the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating what's been written already.
I've brewed once with this yeast using EdWorts Rye IPA grain bill hopped with magnum Amarillo and Strisselspalt. I made the "mistake" of adding a pound of honey to make it more farmhouse-like and ended up with a 9.5% beer :cross: I had no idea it would ferment down to 1.002
It tasted really good but was by no means a session beer.

Anyway I read on an old thread here about someone doing a Great Divides Yeti RIS clone and swapping the yeast out with 3711 which turned out very good.
I think I will give this a go with Bell Saison and see what comes out.

14.5 lb pale 2-row
.75 crystal 120
.75 chocolate
.75 black patent
.50 roasted barley
.5 flaked rye
.5 flaked wheat

1.25 oz Chinook 60 mins
1.25 oz Chinook 30 mins
.50 Chinook 15 mins

I have everything here but will sub the C120 with Caraaroma.

 

[Shenanigans]

I haven't gone through the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating what's been written already.
I've brewed once with this yeast using EdWorts Rye IPA grain bill hopped with magnum Amarillo and Strisselspalt. I made the "mistake" of adding a pound of honey to make it more farmhouse-like and ended up with a 9.5% beer :cross: I had no idea it would ferment down to 1.002
It tasted really good but was by no means a session beer.

Anyway I read on an old thread here about someone doing a Great Divides Yeti RIS clone and swapping the yeast out with 3711 which turned out very good.
I think I will give this a go with Bell Saison and see what comes out.

14.5 lb pale 2-row
.75 crystal 120
.75 chocolate
.75 black patent
.50 roasted barley
.5 flaked rye
.5 flaked wheat

1.25 oz Chinook 60 mins
1.25 oz Chinook 30 mins
.50 Chinook 15 mins

I have everything here but will sub the C120 with Caraaroma.

Haha - after posting I read back a few pages and saw this was already discussed here (Yeti RIS)

Can anyone give feedback on how it turned out?
Good, bad or just OK?

 

[skunkfunk]

I made an RIS with this yeast. Different recipe but easily my least favorite stout. I give it a hearty meh.

 

[The_Glue]

Pitched about 1/7th of a pack into 1gal of 1.050 wort which put it into a 90F swamp "heater". Will see what happens.

I tasted it today (3weeks in primary @ 90) i force carbed it for a few hours.
Results:
-no wheat like banana
-no english like fruits
-no belgian like spices
Instead of them I got huge tangerine/melon notes with some funk and maybe something DMS and/or diacetyl like. Or maybe it was just green. I'll syphon the primary again a few days later for more tastings. Mouthfeel seemed kinda thin. (OG:1.050, 85% pils, 15% oats)

Now here is the bad news: I made a mistake and this was fermented with the Mangrove Jack Belgian strain instead of Belle. (I've seen a post where someone said that these two are maybe the same)

 

[Rhumbline]

I just pitched this for the first time yesterday in a Saison, my first all grain batch.

The thing was chugging along like a locomotive within two hours!

 

[Bosh]

I just pitched this for the first time yesterday in a Saison, my first all grain batch.

The thing was chugging along like a locomotive within two hours!

It's an incredible yeast. Carbs up faster than normal as well.

 

[OzzyBrew]

I brewed up the 'Citra Saison' that is in the recipe section, but I used this yeast instead of what the recipe suggested (3711 I think?). It is a beast, ate it down to 1.006. I fermented at 85F. I drank a very young beer (1 week in the bottle) and all I could taste was the citra. My wife could taste the orange peel that was in the recipe, so I am hoping the citra flavor will die down and I can taste the yeast profile at some point. My first time using this yeast gave me a very peppery beer, so I hope this second batch comes through!

 

[serum]

I made a beer with this three months back and have started tucking into it. Grain bill was

4kg Pilsner
500g Oats (200g malted and 300 flaked)
200g Aromatic
100g Caramunich
300g Honey

I used bobek as a First wort and at 20 minutes to get 25 IBU in total. I primed with 200g honey at bottling.

People seem to like it but I found it a bit bland for a saison. I didn't get much yeast character at all but it fermented down nice and quickly. It seemed to take longer to come good than other strains too.

I had much better results from the other saison strains I've used so I'll probably just keep a sachet as an emergency strain if I've no liquid to hand.

 

[sweetcell]

People seem to like it but I found it a bit bland for a saison. I didn't get much yeast character at all but it fermented down nice and quickly. It seemed to take longer to come good than other strains too.

I had much better results from the other saison strains I've used so I'll probably just keep a sachet as an emergency strain if I've no liquid to hand.

supposedly Belle Saison is similar/the same as 3711. the lackluster yeast character seems to confirm this, to my palette. both yeasts make passable saisons but nothing spectacular. the main reason to use 3711/BS, IMO, is to completely dry out a beer. unless i'm trying to make a toned-down saison i will only use these two strains as a secondary yeast, after another yeast has done an initial and more flavorful primary fermentation.

 

[serum]

supposedly Belle Saison is similar/the same as 3711. the lackluster yeast character seems to confirm this, to my palette. both yeasts make passable saisons but nothing spectacular. the main reason to use 3711/BS, IMO, is to completely dry out a beer. unless i'm trying to make a toned-down saison i will only use these two strains as a secondary yeast, after another yeast has done an initial and more flavorful primary fermentation.

My beers with 3711 seemed to have more going on, a little bit of fruit in there whereas this one had very little. Hard to tell without doing the exact same recipe but I was expecting a bit more from it.

 

[rhys333]

I've been using 3711 as I don't have the advanced temp controls recommended for 3724. It's okay for me, but honestly there's something in the taste of 3711 that comes across as a flaw when fermented warm. It's subtle, but there. I need to start doing two-stage, starting with 3724 and drying it out with 3711/BS.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Revving up for a honey rye saison with the packet I just got last week. Gonna throw about 15-20% of the packet into a starter so I can use it for future beers, and keep my pitch rate lower so I get all the lovely saison funk.

4#Briess Rye
4#Briess Pilsner
1#Honey
.5# Oats
.5# Honey Malt (I know this is to some is huge but between high ferment temps and high attenuation, with the rye, I am pretty positive this will not come off sweet)
.25# Acidulate malt

20IBU from hallertau
3oz of French Strisselspalt at 3 minutes
1oz dry hop of French Strisselspalt 4 days before bottling

 

[sweetcell]

I need to start doing two-stage, starting with 3724 and drying it out with 3711/BS.

i'm a big fan of this combo. it's how i've made my best saisons. takes a bit longer, but then again one shouldn't be in a rush when making saisons

keep my pitch rate lower so I get all the lovely saison funk.

let us know how the low pitch rates work out for you. i've never gotten much funk from BS (or 3711).

4#Briess Rye

at 40% rye in your recipe, i'd suggest that is too much. you're in roggenbier territory. i know i get a lot of rye character at 15-18%, don't think i've seen any recipes above 20% (other than roggenbiers). rice hulls are a good idea with rye as they get really gooey in the mash.

 

[badlee]

He is good up to30% rye malt without rice hulls. Just need to keep the sparge on the warmer send of scale

 

[Rhumbline]

i'm a big fan of this combo. it's how i've made my best saisons. takes a bit longer, but then again one shouldn't be in a rush when making saisons


let us know how the low pitch rates work out for you. i've never gotten much funk from BS (or 3711).


at 40% rye in your recipe, i'd suggest that is too much. you're in roggenbier territory. i know i get a lot of rye character at 15-18%, don't think i've seen any recipes above 20% (other than roggenbiers). rice hulls are a good idea with rye as they get really gooey in the mash.

Hey, for those of you who do this, what's the timeline? Do you go for one week on 3724 and a second on 3711? Or does it matter?

 

[rhys333]

Hey, for those of you who do this, what's the timeline? Do you go for one week on 3724 and a second on 3711? Or does it matter?

I'm interested to know as well, though i imagine you'd let the 3724 ride until it croaks out. The more 3724 character the better?