New cider - Apple/grape!

[Srimmey]

Oh boy, here I go again!

6 gallons of cider from the local farm (mostly breaburn but some other eating varieties as well) + several pounds of unpressed Pinot noir grape skins in primary.

Not sure how many pounds of skins to use, I was thinking about 10-20. Any suggestions would be great! I have about 90’ish pounds.

Any grapes that don’t go in the cider, will be promptly made to wine.

 

[JohnSand]

I've only ever used cider from orchards that pressed and sold it.
Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[madscientist451]

6 gallons of cider from the local farm (mostly breaburn but some other eating varieties as well) + several pounds of unpressed Pinot noir grape skins in primary.

Not sure how many pounds of skins to use, I was thinking about 10-20. Any suggestions would be great! I have about 90’ish pounds.

My suggestion would be to buy a bottle of pinot noir wine and try blending it with a neutral hard cider. Try different ratios and see what you like. You may not like any of it and might want to go in a different direction. Anyway, based on your taste trials, you can figure out how many grapes to add. My 2cents: make the wine and cider separately blend when they are done. I'm thinking a small amount like 10-15% of pinot grapes would be good, any more will overpower the apple flavor.
Here are a few articles on the subject, co fermentation is mentioned by the author, but I'm not 100% sure all the producers did that, some of these products may have been blended.

https://www.healdsburgtribune.com/cider-and-wine-together/

https://www.ciderculture.com/cider-co-ferments-hybrids/

 

[Srimmey]

Just combined it all together. Yeast is in, hopefully I have some bubbles by tonight.

Most of the grapes made it into the brew bag but I did end up with a few floaters.

Final recipe

5.7 gallons of apple juice
2 gallons of Pinot noir grape skins/juice
Nottingham yeast
Gofirm
Fermaide O
Pectic enzymes
OG = 1.060 (might be more with the sugars still trapped in the grape skins)
PH = 3.75’ish

 

[Srimmey]

My suggestion would be to buy a bottle of pinot noir wine and try blending it with a neutral hard cider. Try different ratios and see what you like. You may not like any of it and might want to go in a different direction. Anyway, based on your taste trials, you can figure out how many grapes to add. My 2cents: make the wine and cider separately blend when they are done. I'm thinking a small amount like 10-15% of pinot grapes would be good, any more will overpower the apple flavor.
Here are a few articles on the subject, co fermentation is mentioned by the author, but I'm not 100% sure all the producers did that, some of these products may have been blended.

https://www.healdsburgtribune.com/cider-and-wine-together/

https://www.ciderculture.com/cider-co-ferments-hybrids/

I just went for it, based everything off the smell of the must.

The primary notes are still apple but the grape is easily defined. I’d give it about a 70/30 split between apple and grape notes. The cider yeast I used should help maintain a lot of the original apple flavors.

The real proof will be in 6-12 months when it starts to balance out.

 

[bernardsmith]

Curious. What made you choose Nottingham for this "cider" Sure, lots of brewers go with Nottingham, but many seasoned wine makers go with D47 or even 71B. Not sure what Nottingham ADDS to the performance. And then you are making this an apple-grape cider ... so an ale yeast and not a yeast that works well with red grapes - RC 212, for example?

 

[madscientist451]

I just went for it, based everything off the smell of the must.

The primary notes are still apple but the grape is easily defined. I’d give it about a 70/30 split between apple and grape notes. The cider yeast I used should help maintain a lot of the original apple flavors.

The real proof will be in 6-12 months when it starts to balance out.

Thanks for posting, I usually make red and white wine with local grapes and always am looking for something to do with the grape skins, or even a "second run" by adding more water to the pressed grapes. Usually I don't have free time and just chuck the skins in to the compost bin, but now I' m starting to consider some options....

 

[Srimmey]

Curious. What made you choose Nottingham for this "cider" Sure, lots of brewers go with Nottingham, but many seasoned wine makers go with D47 or even 71B. Not sure what Nottingham ADDS to the performance. And then you are making this an apple-grape cider ... so an ale yeast and not a yeast that works well with red grapes - RC 212, for example?

I am making a dry high tannin cider and wanted a yeast to complement that. The grapes are meant to be a adjunct flavor with the apples still taking front and center.

Nottingham has been a great performer for that kind of brew in the past. Ideally I would have used WPL775 but I can’t find it locally.

Over the past 2 years I have made ciders with Nottingham, D47, 71B and QA23. Nottingham was by far the favorite.

 

[Srimmey]

Cider has finished primary and been racked into a glass carboy. Yield was (1) 5 gallon carboy + half a gallon for topping up.

Finished gravity was 0.998. I ran out of meta K so I could stabilize today. I’ll pick some up later next week and get it added along with some k sorbate.

In a few weeks I will rack off the gross lees, add sparkloid and some apple juice concentrate for back sweetening. Then it will be time to let it rest for several months.

 

[Srimmey]

I have no idea how, but this stuff smells exactly like chocolate covered cherries.

I have high hopes for this experiment. It may not be exactly like what I expected but I now have I hopes that it will be something tasty.