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NEIPA Bottle Oxidation and alternatives?

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tyrub42

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Hey I'm no NEIPA expert :), I've just got one under my belt so-far. There are people on this forum that are way more knowledgeable than me when it comes to this style...(and other styles as well, for that matter ;-)). Still, let me try and answer your questions:

I think that ambient basement temp should work. Fermentation should not get too hot even without temp control. If you have the possibility to raise the temperature to above 70 for a few days when fermentation subsides, this won’t hurt… it has become my SOP for all my beers. Afterwards let the temp get back to your basement temp for the dry hopping. I usually wait a few weeks before dry hopping and then packaging, to give the yeast time to settle and so on...but I know most people go much faster for this style. I think it is up to you to find outr what works best for you. As I said earlier, I do not cold crash because I have a feeling that with my current rather low-tech approach to fermentation and packaging, a cold crash would do more harm than good (specifically, it would increase oxidation risk). To prevent hop matter from getting into my bottles, I run the beer through a monofilament filter that I place in my bottling bucket,

@tyrub42, as I understand from your posts, you do have a CO2 tank. You also mentioned that you cold crash. I would be interested to hear if you do anything to prevent air suckback during the cold crash? Do you hook up your CO2 tank to your fermenter to create some head pressure?

A bottle priming temp of 70-72 is fine. I would also test one bottle at about 1 week, and if carbonation is OK then I would refrigerate them all immediately if you have the possibility. Do not take risks with SWMBO, put those bottles in that garage at 40 F….unless it sees some large temperature swings between day and night, you’ve got a perfect place for cold storing your beers!

I usually condition in my apartment at about 73 F, and I found that it takes no more than one week to have fully carbonated bottles. Then they go either in the fridge or in the basement, depending on available space. This does not mean that they are already in their best shape for drinking after just one week. They will need at least another two weeks to hit their prime.

I aim for ca. 2.5 vols of CO2 for this style. I use regular table sugar.

Good luck!
Hey sorry I just saw this! I use plastic fermenters so I can seal them before crashing and they just bend inward instead of sucking air back.

But if I gelatin the beer I'll co2 purge after adding it.

So far results are good. A DIPA I made two months ago just got gold in Hong Kong despite its age and the week in 80 degree shipping 🥇🥇🥇
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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So, thought id post the final slightly modified recipe. Few changes from the original posted.

I dont do a steady mash. Simply let temp drift from 158 to mid 140s over 90 minutes. Do this with all my beers. i suspect the result is more of a dry beer.

On recipe below, i have 24 liters in fermentor had an og of 1.050 and its dropped to 1.008. So just north of 5.2 % which was my aim. All my beers drop under 1.008-06 range with this mash process.

Grains:
5 # Canadian 2-row
5 # Golden Promise
1 # Wheat
1 # Flaked Barley
1 # Flaked Oats
1/4 # Honey Malt

Yeast
US-05 - i got the notes to change, but it was too late, and all i had on hand. Mash was underway already.

Hops
0.5 oz of falconers for 10 minutes before flame out........ i just could not not bitter a little

Whirlpool around 160 let stand for 20-30 minutes - stir? (is stirring key)
1.5 oz Citra
.5 oz Galaxy
1 oz mosaic

Dry Hop: SG was around 1.012-010 at day 5, so thats when i dry hopped.
2 oz citra
2 oz mosaic
.5 oz galaxy
1 Level teaspoon of Ascorbic Acid diluted in cooled down boiled water 3-4 grams

Will bottle for 2.5 co2 volumes


Everything goes into the fermentor. Trub, the lot. No filtering. I do this with my ambers and reds, and have had no issues. Not sure its a great idea with a neipa, and all those whirlpooled hops. I wasnt really thinking ahead. Hoping i dont get a bitter bomb. I feel i might.

Pictures and report to come in a coupke of weeks i estimate.....
 

tyrub42

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So, thought id post the final slightly modified recipe. Few changes from the original posted.

I dont do a steady mash. Simply let temp drift from 158 to mid 140s over 90 minutes. Do this with all my beers. i suspect the result is more of a dry beer.

On recipe below, i have 24 liters in fermentor had an og of 1.050 and its dropped to 1.008. So just north of 5.2 % which was my aim. All my beers drop under 1.008-06 range with this mash process.

Grains:
5 # Canadian 2-row
5 # Golden Promise
1 # Wheat
1 # Flaked Barley
1 # Flaked Oats
1/4 # Honey Malt

Yeast
US-05 - i got the notes to change, but it was too late, and all i had on hand. Mash was underway already.

Hops
0.5 oz of falconers for 10 minutes before flame out........ i just could not not bitter a little

Whirlpool around 160 let stand for 20-30 minutes - stir? (is stirring key)
1.5 oz Citra
.5 oz Galaxy
1 oz mosaic

Dry Hop: SG was around 1.012-010 at day 5, so thats when i dry hopped.
2 oz citra
2 oz mosaic
.5 oz galaxy
1 Level teaspoon of Ascorbic Acid diluted in cooled down boiled water 3-4 grams

Will bottle for 2.5 co2 volumes


Everything goes into the fermentor. Trub, the lot. No filtering. I do this with my ambers and reds, and have had no issues. Not sure its a great idea with a neipa, and all those whirlpooled hops. I wasnt really thinking ahead. Hoping i dont get a bitter bomb. I feel i might.

Pictures and report to come in a coupke of weeks i estimate.....
You'll be fine with all the hops in the fermenter. Just will have a lot of trub in the bottom so less volume overall. Looks like a nice juicy IPA. Won't be a proper NE but that's not important. What's important is that it tastes good 🍻
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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Wasn't sure how to resize these images (above). Been exactly 2 weeks from grain to glass. Put two bottles in the fridge last night. One filled near top, and this one to where I normally would fill a bottle. No apparent signs of oxidation at this stage, which you would not expect. Its a grey day outside, so it is not sparkling in the glass, as you can see. I could wait for a sunny day, I supposed. Colour is the nice golden orange haze you'd expect in a NEIPA, and the SRM for the grains used.

I am no connoisseur of beer flavour in that I cannot really relate it as others do on the forum. My beer always tastes so bloody fresh compared with anything I buy at a bar. Not sure how to explain it. Most of the draught beer I buy at bars is a minor disappointment - compared to what I make myself. Is that normal? Does everyone think their own beer is great?

There is a bitterness to this IPA that is not unpleasant, but I reckon many might not appreciate in the style. I attribute this to the trub transferred into the fermenter, and the residual hops from whirlpool. Perhaps next time I could filter it better, but to be honest, Its beer, and for me, beer requires some bitterness. I am not sure it suits the style all the same. A healthy hop aroma at the glass, and if I bought this beer in a can, or at a bar, I'd say it tastes bloody great. A success IMHO, and in short time. Cant argue after 2 weeks.

The rest of my experiment will be to see how it holds up in the bottle for a few weeks. I am not sure I will have much left after Christmas, so the test will be rather short lived. Might keep a couple aside for 6-8 weeks, to bookend this thread. I did throw the dregs of the bottling pale in a half bottle, so be interesting to see that when opened, in terms of how it oxidizes. I'll post more pics.

First impression is that this is a great tasting IPA. I'd recommend the grain bill and hop schedule I used. Be great in the summer sun. Nice and hop lively, and a little bitter kick. Hope you get the gist of all that. Very happy with it. Wonder how it will "age". More to follow.

My glass is empty now....... Should I go open another? Hmmmmm
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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I produced just over 2 cases (42 x 15 oz bottles) of beer from this batch. I've taken once case and stuck it in my rear porch where ambient temps will be around 40-50 degrees, so it will keep cool. The remainder will be at around 65 degrees in my basement. I read somewhere that it would be important to refrigerate a bottled NEIPA once carbonation is achieved. This will give me a couple of oxidation benchmarks for the same batch. One case at regular room temp. One kept cooler. More to come.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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IMG_1346.jpgIMG_1337.jpgIMG_1342.jpgIMG_1341.jpg

More images of progress. As indicated earlier (Maybe), I only half filled the last bottle in the batch to get a decent idea of how the Ascorbic Acid might hold up. There is a fair bit of crud in that bottle too. Other bottles in picture show a bottle with minimal head space, and one with a regular neck space.

Brew day notes indicate started mash on November 19, Bottle November 30. So, these bottles are into their 5th week, just.

I think I can detect a very slight dark tint in the half filled bottle, but its not easy to tell. My poured glass is from one of the minimal headspace bottles. Difficult to tell the colour change in the dark light, when I actually poured it. Does it look greyer?

Think I mentioned earlier that this effort has a pretty high (unmeasured IBU). Its quite bitter, as my hops and trub all went into the fermenter. I only used a very small amount of bittering hop in the boils.

The hop aroma is still pleasant, and the IPA kick is essentially the same as I experienced in the first couple of weeks, though it is very difficult to be precise comparing tastes when sampling so far apart.

If I was served this beer in a bar, I'd like it, but if I made it again, I'd find a way to reduce trub in the fermenter, or bag the hops to remove them. I'm sure it is too bitter for the style, and can only imagine the trub transfer was the reason.

Think it is fair to say that, at this point, no discernable oxidation (based on colour) is apparent in the bottles. So far so good for the Ascorbic Acid.

This was my original colour.....

neipa1.JPG
 
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Taket_al_Tauro

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Holy sheez I almost don't believe my eyes that even the half filled bottle is not yet showing some apparent signs of darkening...would then be interested to hear how it tastes compared to the rest...

Concerning the too bitter taste. Although dumping all the trub in the fermenter may not be ideal, I'm not sure this is the cause of your increased bitterness. I'd rather suspect this is more of an issue with too high of a boil pH. I know you said you have some good, low alkalinity water for brewing. However it might still be the case that your boil pH is a little too high and that will extract more bitterness from the hops.
 

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