Need Kirin or Sapporo or Orion Style Recipe Please

[bkboiler]

one of the major differences is not just process or recipe, but ingredients...
There's a few Brewers on HBT who are living in Japan at the moment... I wonder if they can shed some light?
As a for instance the Japanese barley has less protein apparently...
Also as far as I'm aware, the scrutiny for selecting quality rice is more emphasized as a cultural point of pride.
I wonder if anybody on HBT has tried cerealizing sushi rice to use in this style?

 

[Steven Barrett]

I wonder if hop selection plays a bit part too. Since every part of the world hops grow and express their flavors differently.

 

[CanaHomebrew]

I wonder if hop selection plays a bit part too. Since every part of the world hops grow and express their flavors differently.

I think you're right, the grain bill is definitely part of it, but hops are what is going to really make a clone of Kirin or Sapporo. I've heard that Sorachi Ace hops were actually developed for Sapporo. Might be worth trying some of those New Zealand hops too, they have a lot of the same unique flavors as Sorachi.

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

Have you looked at these? I haven't tried them yet, but might give the Austin Home Brew one a try just to see if it's close.

Kirin Lager (2A) - ALL GRAIN Homebrew Ingredient Kit
to see the recipe scroll down to the description area and click on the recipe link to download a pdf.

Beer Recipe Cloud by BeerSmith - Homebrew Beer Recipes

 

[ebbelwoi]

I've been in Japan for over 20 years, but only brewing for about two. I'll try to give what little insight I have.

Remember that Sapporo, Kirin, Asahi, etc. are not beers. They are companies who make beer -- a reasonably wide range of beers. I assume that what people refer to as "Sapporo" is their Black Label (黒ラベル), Kirin would be Ichiban Shibori (一番搾り) and Asahi would be Super Dry (スーパードライ). Sorry for nitpicking.

Kirin's Ichiban Shibori, as @Ki-ri-n posted, is made from 100% malt. Black Label and Super Dry, and even Kirin Lager, contain up to 33% adjuncts (rice, corn and starch). Under Japanese tax law, a beer must contain at least 67% barley malt to be called a beer. Anything less than that would make it happoshu (発泡酒), which sells better than beer in terms of home consumption. Beer is taxed at a much higher rate, though I've read that the government is looking to even things out. Happoshu is almost never served in bars and restaurants, and it's not exported, as far as I know, as I've never seen it sold outside of Japan. Interestingly, since wheat malt is considered an adjunct, something like a witbier (Sapporo's White Belg comes to mind), is in the lower tax range, and sells for 40% less than the macro lagers.

The Japanese macro lagers have very light hop flavors. I've never bothered to try Orion (from Okinawa), but after reading @Steven Barrett's post, I'll have to give it a try. Regarding Sorachi Ace hops, I tried a can of Sapporo's Sorachi 1984, and it was simply yucky. The dill was just overpowering. I can't say I've ever noticed that flavor/aroma in Sapporo Black Label. They probably put some in there, but not a lot.

The only malt that's available to homebrewers in Japan is imported malt. My understanding is that barley farmers are contractually obligated to sell all of their harvests to whichever brewery they're affiliated with, so I couldn't tell you about the protein content.

If anyone has any specific questions I'll do my best to answer them.

 

[bierhaus15]

Kirin had a WBC poster a few years ago and indicated that Ichiban was made with 100% pils malt and fermented with W34/70. I can't imagine the hops are anything special.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

@[B]ebbelwoi[/B] great info-well written. Any idea on the malt bill for Kirin (100% malt, is it a SingleMaltAndSingleHop of sorts or multiple grain bill)?

@bierhaus15 what is WBC?

 

[bierhaus15]

@bierhaus15 what is WBC?

World Brewing Congress.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Next time I get a chance, I'll see if I detect anything, but I would expect it to be what @bierhaus15 suggested. If the yakitori place I'm going to tonight has it, I'll order it.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I bought a can of Kirin Ichiban Shibori shortly after my last post, but still haven't gotten around to drinking it. I had one on tap last night though, and I enjoyed it. There was nothing remarkable about it, but it was right about where it should be. Malty but not sweet, and just a hint of noble-y hops. I asked my 17-year-old daughter who's got a good nose, and she said it smelled floral, despite never having heard that term to describe beer.

BTW, the yakitori place was a bit of an outlier in that it had three kinds of bottled Japanese lager, but they were all adjunct lagers: Asahi Super Dry, Kirin Lager, and Sapporo Black Label.

 

[TheDogsRump]

I study paleoethnobotany (early human and crops) in Hokkaido and they do indeed have their own wheat and barley variants in the region. Their wheat is similar to dwarf wheat but seems to be its own specific strain. Okhotsk barley is all over the region as well, though I'm not sure if they still use it today on a commercial scale.

As for a Sapporo or Orion Clone, I strongly suspect cooked (gelatinized) rice is used as part of the grain bill. I'm actually going to be experimenting next month with starting the Sake making process with a Koji "moto" of rice, and then adding this to the grain bill for an Asahi Black clone for some added nuance.

These beers definitely do taste different in Japan. If you get an Asahi from the Canadian, Thai, and Japanese breweries and drink them side by side, there are substantial differences. There always will be. Slight differences in regional yeast variations (a sourdough from one region will taste distinct from a sourdough of another region, despite an exact recipe), the "terra" taste of the earth and agricultural practices, population variations in grain, etc. etc. etc. But I think the biggest variation to consider is water. I don't know how you'd do this, but getting a water report of the region around these Japanese breweries might help copy that authentic taste. That and, as I said, cooked rice.

PS. Any Yebisu Creamy Top lovers out there? Its like the Japanese Guinness but better.

 

[bronc72]

hrm, Orion is pretty darn tasty. There is something different about that one. I would be highly interested in a recipe.

Orion and yakisoba! That wa a staple when I was on Okinawa