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NE Style IPA, too tough for a beginner?

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oylerck

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To be honest, I did all-grain my first recipe. Turned out to be a good beer. I chilled with water in the sink, had only a 5 gallon cooler for mash and two small 10qt kettles. Everything gets better with practice, but as long as you hit your temps and don't scorch anything it will be drinkable. I would use dry yeast to start out either way as they can be a little heartier.

You need the following at the very least:

1. Hydrometer
2. Thermometer
3. Mash tun if doing all grain(10 gallon cooler or pot
will work best) I didn't even have a filter on the
bottom and scooped the grains out and let them drain. I do not recommend doing that.
3b. If no mash tun, get a muslin sack for steeping the specialty grains - cheap
4. Long handled non-slotted stir spoon
5. Brew kettle typically twice as large as you need. Can be very expensive but i found a 10 gallon for $10. If only boiling 3 gallons of water have a 6 gallon pot. Etc.
6. Fermentation bucket (preferably 2 and one with a spigot to bottle) I bought my first but am building my secondary from a white frosting bucket from a bakery. Yeast should love that. For 5 gallon batch our primary should be at least 6 gallons. Do not pour yeast in bucket until wort is below 90 degrees f at the highest
7. Air locks for both buckets
8. Bottling wand and hose (only buy if you want less mess when bottling, at least get the hose
9. Roughly 50 bottles (you can buy these or save them up) take labels off and sanitize by sticking in oven at 180 for 20 minutes. Do not preheat.
10. Caps and bottle capper
11. Patience! Do not bottle before gravity is constant for 3 days. The airlock will not always have activity. If the yeast is not done and you have bottles you could have exploding bottles.
12. Sanitizer(non bleach) starsan is my favorite but you might be able to buy bottles of food service sanitizer from a food service place. Grocery store, chain restaurant etc. sanitize everything that will touch the wort or beer after the boil. Fermenter, spigot, spoon.
13. Sugar for bottling. Cane or corn doesn't matter. Find an online calculator for how much. Some may disagree with cane sugar but I have never had a problem

Bottling takes more time but is cheaper. Kegging is extremely easy but you can spend a lot.

Biggest thing is do research. How much sugar, how much water for boil, how much yeast, are my temps right.

If you want a cheaper all-grain recipe find a SMaSH ale recipe. Otherwise use extract, but supposedly the difference is you have more control with all-grain.

Let me know if I missed the mark.
 
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marjen

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Question on the water, my wife usually takes empty 3 and 5 gallon jugs to walmart to get filled each week. Is this RO water? If so, great I will add what you suggested.

I am going to do an extract version, not all grain, though I will mix in the specialty grains in the beginning.

I ordered ALL my equipment!

Now I need to order my ingredients. I have some ordered, but not all. Hope to finish ordering this weekend. Looking to brew next month.
 
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marjen

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Question on the boil. Once I am done with the initial specialty grain part and I need to get it up to boil:
1. Do i first remove the pot, add the malts, mix them in then crank ups to boil?
2. Or do I get to full boil, remove from stove, add malts then get back to boil?
3. Also when do you start the 60 min timer? Not until full boil (212 degrees)?

Thanks.
 

McKnuckle

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#2. And that's right, a full boil - when the hot break protein gunk on the surface is substantially broken by the bubbling water. Don't measure the temperature and insist on 212°F. Boiling is boiling; it's pretty obvious.
 

PADave

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I don't start my boil timer till after the hot break. Once that happens the 60 min hops go in and I start. Like McKnuckle said, don't worry about a temp, a boil is a boil.
 

worlddivides

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Question on the boil. Once I am done with the initial specialty grain part and I need to get it up to boil:
1. Do i first remove the pot, add the malts, mix them in then crank ups to boil?
2. Or do I get to full boil, remove from stove, add malts then get back to boil?
3. Also when do you start the 60 min timer? Not until full boil (212 degrees)?

Thanks.
By "malts," I assume you mean malt extract. That would be #2. Let it get to a boil, turn off the heat, then mix in the extract, mixing to make sure it doesn't burn the bottom of the pot.

As for #3, the 60 minute timer starts as soon as you add your bittering hops and not a second before that. You'll also want to wait until after the hot break before adding any hops.
 

motosapiens

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11. Add first round of dry hop after 4 days. (not sure how to get it in bucket?
12. Add 2nd drop hop after another 4 days.
sounds like you are learning a lot. that is great. Lots of helpful people here.

On step 11, well-respected recipes i have read say to add the first dryhops toward the ends of active fermentation, once the gravity has dropped to 1.020 or so. I have found that when using a yeast starter (i.e. pitching more yeast than just what came in the package), it only takes 2 days or less to reach that gravity, so now I just put the first dry hops in the morning of the 2nd day after brewing. You can open the bucket to add the hops with no problems at that point. Fermentation is still active so co2 is being produced like crazy and the yeast will consume any tiny molecules of oxygen that get in. :tank:
 

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You calculate the alcohol in your beer by taking a gravity measurement with a hydrometer at the beginning of fermentation and at the end and doing some calculations on that. You can use any brewing software or an online calculator.
Don't stick strictly to the schedule about when you bottle. Take a gravity reading, wait a few days and take another. If it hasn't changed then you can bottle.
Another thing to be aware of is it will foam a LOT when it's coming to a boil for the first time. You'll want to watch it like a hawk around that time. You can do a few things to help with this, spray it with some cold water, stir, reduce the heat and if you have some add some foam control like fermcap-s.
I recommend having some waterproof insulated gloves so you can remove the whole kettle from the heat if you need to.
These are the ones that I have:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BZ8K4M/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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JJ900

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Learning to brew by making NEIPA's, you are likely to have a lower success rate than a regular IPA. And you'll be less likely to know what is wrong with your beer. Its true that once you know what you are doing, the NEIPA is not much harder/different but in general I think its chances of success are less guaranteed than e.g. a Pliny clone kit, zombie dust clone, gumballhead etc. I strongly encourage you to make a regular IPA recipe and prove to yourself you can make a beer that you are impressed by, then switch to making NEIPAs.
 
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marjen

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Thanks for the info. I did get gloves and fermcap. I will be brewing 6 gallons of water in a 10 gallon bucket so with those two things combined and watching it like a hawk I hope to be good.
 
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marjen

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So I found a great post on this forum that had a pic from a magazine where JC from Trillium actually gave an extract recipe with full directions to recreate Fort Point, which is what I am targeting with this brew. So I altered my ingredients list a bit and also my brew day and dry hop steps according to his directions. They are a little different than some other directions I have seen, but since its his brew, I am going to trust him, lol. Only thing I might do is sub out the Golden liquid malt for Light DME. And I am going to do a galaxy version instead of citra as Galaxy Fort Point is my favorite.

SO based on this new information, and reviewing all his directions step by step here is what brew day will look like:

BREW DAY

1. [ ] Add 1 level tsp of Calcium Chloride and 2 level tsp of Gypsum to water 100:50 ppm ratio.
2. [ ] Place the crushed malt in a muslin bag
3. [ ] Steep the malts in 1 gal of water at 170 degrees for 20 mins.
4. [ ] Remove Specialty grains from wort.
6. [ ] Top of kettle to 5 gallons and heat to full boil.
7. [ ] remove kettle from heat and work in the dry malts
8. [ ] stir until all malts have disolved
9. [ ] Place kettle back on heat source and bring to full boil
10. [ ] Add .25 oz columbus hops once wort is at full boil
11. [ ] set timer to 60 mins
12. [ ] Add Fermcap
13. [ ] Start sanitizing bucket, lid, air stop with star san
14. [ ] With 15 mins left put chiller in the kettle to help with sanitation.
15. [ ] 10 mins left add .75 oz columbus hops
16. [ ] 10 mins left add 1 tsp irish moss
17. [ ] 0 mins left cool wort until its at 180 degrees.
18. [ ] Add hop stand addition, 2 oz columbus hops, stir and let settle for 30 mins.
19. [ ] Set timer for 30 mins.
20. [ ] Bring wort down to room temp with chiller.
21. [ ] Once at desired temp, move wart to sanitized fermentation bucket.
22. [ ] Aerate wort between buckers several times. shake up a bit.
23. [ ] Add yeast to wort, place lid and blow off valve on.
24. [ ] ferment at 68 degrees

Step one is the only 1 I am guessing a little on right now. He said you want a 2:1 gypsum to calcium chloride ratio and then mentioned 100:50 ppm ratio. Someone else in another NE IPA water thread said use RO water and 1 tsp gypsum and 1 tsp calcium chloride as a good starting point, but wouldn't it be 2 tsp to 1 tsp? Or is that not how it works?

SO Appreciative of all the help I have gotten so far. The only thing I will say is I am really going to try this so dont try and talk me out of it :D Just help me make this drinkable! I figure if my Pats can come back from 25 pits down to win the Super Bowl, I can make a drinkable beer. I just have to DO MY JOB.
 

JonM

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The chloride to sulfate ratio doesn't matter too much but your figures should do fine. Really, you want to find a level of sulfate that you like. Some people like 300 mg/L, others like less (in yesterday's Mosaic IPA, I had just under 100 mg/L of sulfate.)

If you get into water chemistry, I'd highly recommend reading Palmer's Water book. It revolutionized my brewing.
 

z-bob

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Of all the things to worry about, gypsum to calcium chloride ratio in an extract brew is the least important. ;) (it's a little more important with whole grain mashing) 2:1 tsp and 1:1 tsp are both perfectly reasonable. Your recipe says 2:1, so go with that. Good luck!
 

JoeMamasIPA

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I replied to your PM on beeradvocate. When I first started doing these I did 1 gallon batches to minimize waste. This ended up being a good move since only 2/7 batches were decent. After all the trial and error, switching from bottling to kegging made the biggest difference. Even when the beer came out good it would be ruined by day 4 post ferment because of oxidation. Most beers go "cardboard" with oxidation, these turn dark brown and take on a metallic astringency thats turrible and churlish.
 

Tombstone0

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Everything looks pretty good to me. But you'll want to add the fermcap when the wort starts foaming as it's coming to a boil.
On the water additions I'm not sure what amounts to tell you to get 100:50 ppm
 
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marjen

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So you are saying you can't make a good NE IPA if you are bottling?
 
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marjen

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Everything looks pretty good to me. But you'll want to add the fermcap when the wort starts foaming as it's coming to a boil.
Thanks I will make that adjustment.
 

JoeMamasIPA

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So you are saying you can make a good NE IPA if you are bottling?
No, I am saying the opposite, it is very difficult to bottle and make a good NEIPA. There is just too much O2 introduced during the bottling process unless you can rig a beergun/counter pressure filler from your fermenter (requires a non-glass fermenter for safety) to the bottles where each bottle is CO2 purged prior to filling. Bottling is like starting Brissett instead of Brady, he can manage the game but after a while the gameplan goes stale because he can't accurately hit receivers. Even when limiting O2 the best brewers of this style (Trillium, HillFarmstead, Bissell Bros, Treehouse) limit distribution and you end up drinking the beer relatively fresh. Closed transfer to a purged keg is the way to go, best $200 you will spend on equipment.
 
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marjen

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One question on the yeast, I assume i just use a single liquid pack for the batch?

I have now ordered ALL ingredients and equipment. Now I sit back and wait for it all to arrive and read, watch videos and prep for that first brew day.
 
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marjen

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Closed transfer to a purged keg is the way to go, best $200 you will spend on equipment.
Thanks for the information. If this first batch is drinkable I plan to look into possibly investing in kegging and real temp control for fermentation. All that doubles the entry price and I want to make sure it seems worthwhile before adding all the extra expense.
 

IslandLizard

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One question on the yeast, I assume i just use a single liquid pack for the batch?

I have now ordered ALL ingredients and equipment. Now I sit back and wait for it all to arrive and read, watch videos and prep for that first brew day.
<rubbing hands together> I was waiting for that question.

Which yeast strain are you thinking of using?
Regardless, read up on making yeast starters. Another curve to learn, but at least you have to do this a few days before you brew.

Search in Chrome:
site:homebrewtalk.com yeast starter​

You can query anything that way and stay within the homebrewtalk.com domain (site).
 
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marjen

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Regardless, read up on making yeast starters. Another curve to learn, but at least you have to do this a few days before you brew.
Ok So reading upon on starters. It says to add DME and 2 cups water. I assume this does not impact the regular ingredients list in any way? Meaning I dont remove some DME from recipe because I am adding it to the starter?
 

TallDan

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I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that we are in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum." While I know we all want to help the OP brew the best batch possible for his first one, some pretty advanced topics are being suggested here (and even being implied as requirements). Sure, we can help him make a world-class NEIPA, but first let's help him get his first batch in the fermenter.
 
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marjen

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I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that we are in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum." While I know we all want to help the OP brew the best batch possible for his first one, some pretty advanced topics are being suggested here (and even being implied as requirements). Sure, we can help him make a world-class NEIPA, but first let's help him get his first batch in the fermenter.
:D

Thank you. But I know everyone is just trying to help and I know I am not heading the advise of some warning me against trying this. I am taking it all in and doing as much research as possible. And I will be attending a class on Brewing NE IPAs prior to actually trying this which should help a lot as well as I can ask questions and get a lot of feedback from others and the instructor. I know its going to take a lot of organization and mental toughness and probably a TON of luck to make a decent batch of brew my first time out ;)
 

JJ900

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I thought with extract beers that you may not want to be adding so many brewing salts because the factory that made the extract already had minerals etc. in their water. Do those minerals not include salts?
 

IslandLizard

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Ok So reading upon on starters. It says to add DME and 2 cups water. I assume this does not impact the regular ingredients list in any way? Meaning I dont remove some DME from recipe because I am adding it to the starter?
Reading up on starters is not taking the first result that gets returned and take that for an answer. Research the topics more thoroughly...

No, you do not add the DME from your recipe to your starter. The yeast starter is made before and outside of your brew, say 4-7 days ahead. It is to grow more yeast from the pack you buy.

Typically yeast starters are made with 100gr of DME dissolved per liter of water (1:10). For your beer you need to make at least a 2 liter starter.

Actually, if you want to use WY1098, you may be better off using the dry yeast version of it, Safale S-04, and save yourself the crash course in making yeast starters right now.

For NE IPAs, liquid yeasts such as WY1318 London Ale III (Boddingtons), Conan, such as Yeast Bay's Vermont Ale, Omega Yeast Lab&#8217;s Double IPA Yeast OYL-052 DIPA, or GigaYeast's Vermont IPA Yeast GY054 are highly recommended.

Here's a good write up on NE IPAs
 
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marjen

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I understand this is done prior to brew day. I guess what I was asking is if my recipe calls for 9 lbs of DME and I use say 1/2 lb on the starter, do I remove 1/2 lb on brew day? I am thinking no but was just asking.
 

IslandLizard

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I understand this is done prior to brew day. I guess what I was asking is if my recipe calls for 9 lbs of DME and I use say 1/2 lb on the starter, do I remove 1/2 lb on brew day? I am thinking no but was just asking.
Indeed, it's no. You do not remove that 200 grams from your main recipe.

The starter is like a small beer in which the yeast grows while fermenting it. It needs to be shaken often or stirred on a stir plate for 24 hours (sometimes longer) to get optimal growth.

After 24 hours of growing, you'd "cold crash" it in the fridge, so the yeast settles out on the bottom. You'd pour off the (mostly) clear starter beer (down the sink, or some people drink it), leaving the yeast slurry behind. That slurry gets pitched into your main batch of chilled wort, which then becomes beer.

Needless to say, you need to use good sanitation practices when handling yeast. You don't want to grow an infection, "bugs," bacteria.

You can use a gallon jug to grow your yeast. The fancy flasks are good for stir plates, most have a very flat bottom. The 2 liter ones are a bit too small for growing yeast without a stir plate.

There is lots of info here and elsewhere on how to do yeast starters. Again, not difficult, it becomes 2nd nature when you've done a few. Same for sanitation and most other brewing related processes, hands on experience and learning from mistakes makes you a better brewer. It just takes time.

I've been brewing for 8 years and still make mistakes. Like I just added twice the amount of one of the minerals (brewing "salts") to the strike water, to be used for the mash. And I haven't had beer yet. :tank:
 
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marjen

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So I am finally ready, I think, for my first brew day this weekend. I have all my gear, all the ingredients, now it's time to go for it. I am going to make my starter on Saturday and clean all my gear. Sunday I will brew. Real nervous I am going to somehow screw it up but looking forward to the challenge. Appreciate this forum and all the help so far.
 

Mainer

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So I am finally ready, I think, for my first brew day this weekend. I have all my gear, all the ingredients, now it's time to go for it. I am going to make my starter on Saturday and clean all my gear. Sunday I will brew. Real nervous I am going to somehow screw it up but looking forward to the challenge. Appreciate this forum and all the help so far.
Don't worry; even if you screw up, your beer will still be beer, and that's amazing! RDWHAHB, as they say.
 

McKnuckle

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Since it's only Wednesday, you might consider re-reading IslandLizard's yeast starter instructions from post #71:

"After 24 hours of growing, you'd "cold crash" it in the fridge, so the yeast settles out on the bottom. You'd pour off the (mostly) clear starter beer (down the sink, or some people drink it), leaving the yeast slurry behind. That slurry gets pitched into your main batch of chilled wort..."

So ideally, make your starter on Thursday. On Friday, cold crash it. Then on Sunday, dump out all but a tiny amount of the liquid; swish the remaining liquid around with the yeast til it's a nice creamy consistency, and pitch that into your fresh wort.
 

dyqik

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Since it's only Wednesday, you might consider re-reading IslandLizard's yeast starter instructions from post #71:

"After 24 hours of growing, you'd "cold crash" it in the fridge, so the yeast settles out on the bottom. You'd pour off the (mostly) clear starter beer (down the sink, or some people drink it), leaving the yeast slurry behind. That slurry gets pitched into your main batch of chilled wort..."

So ideally, make your starter on Thursday. On Friday, cold crash it. Then on Sunday, dump out all but a tiny amount of the liquid; swish the remaining liquid around with the yeast til it's a nice creamy consistency, and pitch that into your fresh wort.
Or if that sounds like too much work, you could just buy two packs of yeast and use both.
 
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marjen

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Wow Thursday? So leave it in the frig from Friday to Sunday?
 

Jtk78

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Wow Thursday? So leave it in the frig from Friday to Sunday?
Yes. I fridge mine in my starter flask with foil loosely covering it. Some people do not cold crash & just pitch the entire starter, but I prefer the cold crash route for a couple reasons.
1st - if I did get a bad yeast supply (hasn't happened yet, but I have had a slow starter) I have a few days to get more yeast.
2nd - if I'm making a 5 gallon batch it's about 19 liters. If I added the entire 2 liters batch, I could be having a 10% effect on my beer. I'm trying to improve my beers by 10%, not worsen by not getting rid of starter wort.
3rd - if I am not cold crashing, I'm kind of guessing when that yeast will be ready to pitch. 24 hours is usually a good guess, but that slow starter I mentioned took longer. I don't need to lock down the schedule. If I were brewing Sunday, I would probably make my starter no later than Thursday afternoon. But really anytime between the previous Sunday and Thursday would be fine.
 

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The rationale is this: You want the yeast to sense its new environment (the starter wort), go through the growth phase, and start fermenting. But they don't need to finish fermenting - not at all. As soon as they are done growing (that's the whole point of a starter), you want them to stop and settle out so you can discard the yucky basic beer in the starter. To do that requires cold crashing and a little bit of time. Two days is usually good, although not with lager yeast; it needs more time. That's not relevant to you though.

Plenty of people pitch the starter wort too, so it is not wrong to do so, it's a choice. I and others prefer not to put starter liquid in our precious, carefully crafted beer. :)
 
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marjen

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So even with a stirmaster I need to start tonight? I had planned on doing the starter Saturday, lol. If I do it tonight, leave on stirplate until tomorrow night, then place in frig tomorrow night until Sunday morning and take out of frig a couple hours before brewing?
 

McKnuckle

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Yes, the suggested timing includes use of a stir plate. The yeast takes roughly 18-24 hours to multiply, then they get going on their work. Your timing is tight but doable. Keep the yeast refrigerated right up until the point of pitching. Decant the starter beer, swirl, allow to warm up a bit (15 minutes, whatever, not critical) and pitch.
 
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