My beers all taste the same.

[iskuse]

Do you then sanitize, after the cleaning and rinsing?

I soak in oxiclean rinse with water and dry, I have never used sanitizer. if things are looking a little dirty I use all natural unscented soap, then I hit it afterwards with oxiclean and rinse, I soak my bottles and lids in oxiclean.

after I soak and clean the labels off of the bottles I store them to dry. When I am ready to bottle I put 50 of them in the dishwasher and put it on High heat sanitize. no soap or anything just water.

So far so good.

 

[flyfisherwes]

I sanitize with star San because my dishwasher sucks.

 

[Pappers_]

I soak in oxiclean rinse with water and dry, I have never used sanitizer. if things are looking a little dirty I use all natural unscented soap, then I hit it afterwards with oxiclean and rinse, I soak my bottles and lids in oxiclean.

after I soak and clean the labels off of the bottles I store them to dry. When I am ready to bottle I put 50 of them in the dishwasher and put it on High heat sanitize. no soap or anything just water.

So far so good.

I'm glad it's worked for you, but most homebrewers follow a different, two-step regime.

First, clean with dish soap, oxyclean, pbw or some other cleanser. This can be done anytime - I usually do that right after using the equipment, then put it away for the next time I use it.

Secondly, sanitize with either Iodophor or Star San immediately before using.

So, clean the organic material after using and sanitize immediately before using. If you look in the equipment and sanitizing forum, you'll find lots of info on this.

For your bottles, I know others who heat sanitize in the dishwasher.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Anything I can do to test the natural spring water from the mountains to see if it's suitable?

Does it taste good when you pour a glass of it to drink? If so, its fine for home brewing.

Focus on fermentation first. Fermentation is 85% of brewing, the other 15% is recipe, ingredients, sanitation, process, and equipment combined.

My opinion anyway. You will always be chasing down off flavors until you get temperature control and pitching rate down.

 

[Elweydoloco]

Meh for $16 you get a full analysis or you can bring it to a pool chemical place and hope they give you what you need doubtful they will and chances are they'll charge you just as much

 

[roadymi]

the jet bottle rinser is an awesome tool to have

 

[azscoob]

Spending the scratch on a water analysis is worth it. I found my water to be a touch crazy for anything but a stout, however if I cut it with RO I make pretty good pales and bitters. My HBT winning mild was brewed with Maricopa municipal tap water and RO water at a 50/50 ratio.

 

[agentEhrman]

Interesting stuff here, glad all of you pro's are always so willing to help us newbs out! I have brewed 11 batches so far and almost all of mine have the same "off" flavor as well. I was only using easy clean with 10 minute soaking for cleaning AND sanitizing, so I suspect this is my issue? I just use tap water, as directed by my LHBS. He stated, "I have been using our local water for 28 years with great success" I found that hard to argue with, so until now I haven't even considered using anything else. I guess I may try some RO water once to see if it helps. I also top off before pitching with water straight from the tap. Again, my LHBS suggested this is perfectly fine, what are your thoughts? I have a stick on thermometer for my fermentation buckets, and I am usually at 70 while fermentation is high, then back to 65 or so for the rest of the time... Any help or recommendations are appreciated.

 

[mgull]

[/QUOTE]Oh and I will be trying to control temps better. Winter is coming so it'll be easier. When I get a house I will have a basement and brewing room. Any suggestions on ways to do this without a mess and a fridge are welcomed. I try to ferment 3 batches at a time. So space while cooling is an issue.[/QUOTE]
The swamp cooler method works pretty well for me. I brew in my closet which also contains my hot water heater. To make things worse I live in an apartment above a garage with no a/c. I just wrap my fermenter in wet towels and place bowls of ice in front of a fan. Without that my closet can get over 80 degrees. I can tell you from experience that it definitely affects my brew with all sorts of off flavors. Good luck

 

[Just1pepsi]

Are you boiling/sterilizing your bottle caps?

my routine:

As they empty:
Wash each bottle as clean as possible without getting complicated immediately after emptying.
Store upside down until I have a full set.

Bottling day pregame:
water/bleach mix, soak, scrub, rinse repeat
Rinse again, and maybe a third time with regular water depending on my bleach paranoia level/feel that day.

Bottling day kickoff:
soak in starsan solution immediately before bottling.
usually shake/swirl/rinse with starsan solution again just to be sure all surfaces are wet.
I fill right on top of it, and the SS foam comes right out as I get the bottle filled and runs down the side.
Place a sterilized cap on the bottle, set on the table - continue the painstaking process until all beer has been moved from the bottling bucket to the bottle.
Crimp the caps on
Wash the bottles in the SS solution again because I like my bottle CLEAN, then let dry. (last step optional I guess)

This is what works for me.. keys being, rinse a lot since using bleach, rinse some more, scrub even when the bottle appears clean to your naked eye, dont fear the foam in SS it is a wet contact sterilizer, so if its dry, its not sterilized.


You know, I suppose if you have the ability to do so, you could boil each bottle to ensure its sterile.
-or-
boil say, a six pack worth of bottles and then follow your normal process with the rest
mark the boiled ones and test your brew after they condition to see if you note a difference. If so, that would at least narrow it down to a bottle sterilization procedural problem.

Really you could also split your batch, one using RO water, and one using tap if you suspect that to be the problem as well.

 

[BonnieJ]

I find it much more endurable to clean all my ("new," labelled) bottles before bottling day. I did clean bottles and bottle for my first batch but I'm not planning on doing that again! For the ones I just drank homebrew out of I just rinse really well and check for deposits in the neck. I store them upside down for a little while and then flip them over, because they do not always dry thoroughly upside down.

 

[eltorrente]

E. I don't rinse the oxyclean solution off before sanitizing.

Huh? Why not?!?! Where did you read or hear that there's no reason to do this?

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Spending the scratch on a water analysis is worth it. I found my water to be a touch crazy for anything but a stout, however if I cut it with RO I make pretty good pales and bitters. My HBT winning mild was brewed with Maricopa municipal tap water and RO water at a 50/50 ratio.

Granted, but lets be honest here...water profile can be one of the factors that takes a beer from a "38" to a "41" on a score sheet. It can mean the difference between "great beer" and "classic example of the style".

Water profile (aside from chlorine and chlorophenols, which we all agree should be filtered out by charcoal or other methods) will NOT be one of the factors that takes a beer from "off flavors" to "drinkable".

If the water tastes good in a glass from the faucet, it's suitable to brew with and wont contribute off flavors, given that it's filtered through a charcoal filter like a Brita or something to remove chlorine.

Off flavors come from process errors, contamination (organic or inorganic, in the case of non-rinsed oxyclean...), and fermentation errors.

Sending a brewer who is having "off flavors" in every batch down a path of water analysis is an exercise in futility. Sorry, just my opinion based on a bunch of experience.

 

[Yooper]

Sending a brewer who is having "off flavors" in every batch down a path of water analysis is an exercise in futility. Sorry, just my opinion based on a bunch of experience.

Possibly true- unless the brewer says "All of my beers taste the same!"

Chlorine and chloramines will absolutely ruin the taste of the beer, but many other people will have a funny persistent flavor in their beer that they can't identify.

I always say to try a batch with RO water. If the flavor is gone, you know the issue.

 

[scadieux]

One thing I learned: your LHBS is an expert at selling homebrew stuff, not brewing beer. Unless the guy has won competitions, you better trust good books, brewing experts and advices from friends who make good beer (taste it...), etc.

 

[flyfisherwes]

I can't really see a reason not to change my water though. I haven't been filtering it. It's not bad water for drinking but it's not good either. The spring water would be "free" and it tastes good.

The oxyclean is a possibility but it seems odd that it would contribute this much. I didnt rinse but i used 5 gallos do starsan an filled each bottle shook it up and epmtied it then I let it sit upside down.

I think it could be q combination o things including fermentation.

 

[meteorbrews]

Fermentation temps are pretty important. I noticed a large improvement in the taste of my beer once i started controlling the temps.

 

[DHill]

I have had similar problems and all the beers have the same aftertaste. After some time I'm thinking it's almost a yeasty taste, but it's hard to place. Here's what I did:

- upgraded everything to glass and stainless steel
- switched over to corny kegs for fermenting and a kegerator (no more bottling)
- replaced all tubing with new stuff, santized it all thoroughly

I still had the taste in my last keg batch. I was so mad I haven't brewed since.

After reading through this thread, I'm thinking its the fermentation temperatures. I often see my temps in the high 60s, sometimes low 70s. I'm wondering if that kills some of my yeast before it gets a chance to do its work, and then I end up with dead organic matter in my brew that does nothing but skew the flavor?

Hope that helps.

 

[DHill]

To add:

Here was my post about the yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/same-flavor-every-batch-yeast-157380/

Also, I brew with spring water and have been since Day 1. I switched over the yeast to one of the brands recommended in the above thread, and still got the flavor. So I'm thinking it's fermentation temps.

 

[daksin]

After reading through this thread, I'm thinking its the fermentation temperatures. I often see my temps in the high 60s, sometimes low 70s. I'm wondering if that kills some of my yeast before it gets a chance to do its work, and then I end up with dead organic matter in my brew that does nothing but skew the flavor?

Hope that helps.

Definitely sounds like fermentation temperatures, but not for the reasons you mention. At high temperatures (70+) the yeast are actually very happy, but not for beer making. All sorts of off flavors are produced when you ferment at high temperatures. Medicinal, plastic-y, hard alcohol burn, metallic, fruity/estery are some of the flavors you can get fermenting hot.

If your ambient temperatures are in the 70s, during active fermentation (the first week or so depending) your temperatures in the beer can be 5-10 degrees higher due to latent heat from all that cellular activity. This is more than enough to produce some weird flavors, especially during the first few days when activity is highest and most of your flavors are generated.

Give it another shot with some RO water and solid temperature control (mid-low 60s in your beer) and see how it comes out:rockin:

 

[MaltnHops]

Pitching temp or fermenting temp. I used to have the same problem with that one weird flavor in the aftertaste. Now I don't have that problem. Now I never pitch yeast higher than 70 degrees and I got a temperature controller for my fermentation fridge and keep temps at around 64 (ferm temps, not ambient). This resolved my problem with this issue.

 

[ChandlerBrewery]

I struggled with identifying the ingredient (welcome or unwelcome) that was contributing to an off flavor in the aftertaste. I described it as sort of a "green" flavor that never mellowed out. After about 5 batches I abandoned the yeast I was using for a different brand, the flavor has gone away. I've changed everything since then (except the yeast) including equipment, and the flavor hasn't come back. This was probably the most frustrating experience in my brewing life. The one good thing that did come from this adventure is that I switched to All Grain out of suspicion that it was the extract. =)

 

[agentEhrman]

I struggled with identifying the ingredient (welcome or unwelcome) that was contributing to an off flavor in the aftertaste. I described it as sort of a "green" flavor that never mellowed out. After about 5 batches I abandoned the yeast I was using for a different brand, the flavor has gone away. I've changed everything since then (except the yeast) including equipment, and the flavor hasn't come back. This was probably the most frustrating experience in my brewing life. The one good thing that did come from this adventure is that I switched to All Grain out of suspicion that it was the extract. =)

What yeast were you using when you were getting the off flavors?

 

[agentEhrman]

One thing I learned: your LHBS is an expert at selling homebrew stuff, not brewing beer. Unless the guy has won competitions, you better trust good books, brewing experts and advices from friends who make good beer (taste it...), etc.

My first instinct would be to question the salesman, but at my LHBS, the only worker is the owner. I have never seen a single other person there (working). He is constantly talking me out of buying too much ingredients, telling me its a waste of money. He has never once given me the impression he was trying to make his living off of me. He told me that he has been home brewing in my same town for 28 years, and his shop has been open for 18 years. I can't see any reason not to trust his advice on the local water, especially since he sells all the stuff to maintain poor water on his shelves! Although I haven't tried any of his brews, he has certainly saved me time and effort by helping me keep things simple. I do feel I can trust him. I know he's not just a clerk with daily sales goal. I doubt all LHBS are like this though..

 

[ChandlerBrewery]

What yeast were you using when you were getting the off flavors?

I was using Safale US-05 Dry yeast. I now use White Labs and I am very happy with them.

 

[agentEhrman]

I was using Safale US-05 Dry yeast. I now use White Labs and I am very happy with them.

I'm glad I asked, I have been using US-05 exclusively and I keep tasting a flavor as well..

 

[ChandlerBrewery]

I'm glad I asked, I have been using US-05 exclusively and I keep tasting a flavor as well..

If your LHBS carries White Labs (most likely it does), you should give them a try and let me know what you think. I haven't had anyone else confirm my findings (this is the first time I've shared it, really. Kind of forgot about it until I read it here).

 

[flyfisherwes]

I was using Safale US-05 Dry yeast. I now use White Labs and I am very happy with them.

I've had all my batches with us05 turn out with a funny aftertaste. My white labs batch turned out really good. I think maybe the us05 yeast is more temp sensitive. Or maybe it likes a different water profile. Whatever it is I'm blaming temp control and yeast.

 

[agentEhrman]

I was planning to do my next batch with US-04, ... now I'm having second thought on this one as well. I might look for an equivalent liquid. Is there liquid that can be pitched straight into the fermenter? Or will I need to learn a new technique?

Weird that US-05 is supposed to be such a clean yeast, yet we are all getting off flavors with it..

 

[ChandlerBrewery]

I was planning to do my next batch with US-04, ... now I'm having second thought on this one as well. I might look for an equivalent liquid. Is there liquid that can be pitched straight into the fermenter? Or will I need to learn a new technique?

Weird that US-05 is supposed to be such a clean yeast, yet we are all getting off flavors with it..

You can pitch liquids the same as you do dry. However, here are a couple of good reasons to consider a starter:

1. Ensures that your yeast is alive, before you pitch it.
2. Higher population of cells for more efficient attenuation.