Mr. Malty

[nolabrew85]

I have used Mr. Malty’s yeast pitch calculator for years, and I have read Jamil’s and Chris White’s Yeast book, so I know their arguments for why to pitch so much Yeast, but does anyone think they are just wrong when brewing an ale on a homebrew level? It just seems crazy to me the amount they say to pitch. And the liquid yeast gets VERY expensive. Is it just a ploy to make us buy more yeast? The calculator regularly tells me I need 3 packets ($21) of yeast AND 3 liter starter on a stir plate for 10 gallons of 5% beer, when the yeast is less than a month from the manufacture date. Has anyone called BS and pitched way less and not noticed a difference?

 

[Upthewazzu]

yeastcalculator.com is my go-to for pitch rate. Never used mr malty. Putting your starter on a stir plate is really the best option for these things, IMO.

 

[RM-MN]

Mr. Malty is a pessimist who's recommenations are based on faulty premises. You aren't brewing in a huge vat, you aren't needing a super quick turnaround to be profitable, and your wort can be sufficiently aerated to allow the yeast to propagate in the fermenter. A starter is overkill.

 

[Conehead]

I use Brewers Friend.

 

[Dland]

I've been using Safeale (mostly 05) and Safelager (mostly 34/70) for most of my last 40 batches. I'll re pitch from previous brew if the yeast is still working actively in the other fermentor.

The instructions of packet say to dry pitch, which works just fine. No starter, stir plate, chance of contaminating wort. For a 10 gallon batch of ale, one $5 packet works great, is working a couple hours after pitch. For lagers getting a cold ferment, I'll use two packs, especially if starting gravity is over 1.060, at lower temps, sometimes takes over night to be actively working, but never longer. I'll hit it with a minute of O2 though a stone for new packs, a little longer if re pitching. Then the yeast goes in the airlock hole on the cooled wort.

Lots more choices with some of these liquid yeast strains, and playing around with storage and propagation is probably part of the fun and challenge for some, but I'll settle for good dependable beer at this point. My two cents, as it were...

 

[Tribe Fan]

I pitch ales from tubes and smack packs. Always aerate the wort and I'm almost always in full krausen within 10 hours. Only time a do a starter is for lagers and repitching old yeast. Don't need to spend the money on DME.

 

[dmtaylor]

I have used Mr. Malty’s yeast pitch calculator for years, and I have read Jamil’s and Chris White’s Yeast book, so I know their arguments for why to pitch so much Yeast, but does anyone think they are just wrong when brewing an ale on a homebrew level? It just seems crazy to me the amount they say to pitch. And the liquid yeast gets VERY expensive. Is it just a ploy to make us buy more yeast? The calculator regularly tells me I need 3 packets ($21) of yeast AND 3 liter starter on a stir plate for 10 gallons of 5% beer, when the yeast is less than a month from the manufacture date. Has anyone called BS and pitched way less and not noticed a difference?

They are mega conservative. I do still use their calculator but divide the result by 2 to get the realistic answer.

 

[kh54s10]

Here we go again. "I pitch 1 pack of 6 month old liquid yeast and my beers are drinkable". "I dry pitch 1 pack of yeast in 20 gallons of 1.100 wort and it works."

Yes, and Vikings used their magic stick to stir the wort and it miraculously fermented.

It is pretty much agreed that MrMalty is quite/too generous. You have to remember that MrMalty was developed a long time ago when there were very few options for yeast. Things have improved in yeast development. I started brewing in 2011 and for dry yeasts there were probably less than a dozen choices. If my memory serves me.

I use: http://www.yeastcalculator.com/ Then the K.Troester stirplate method of aeration. It gives smaller starters but 1) it forces me to look at the age of the yeast, 2) it gives amounts to use rather than just guessing. 3) My beers are more than just good beer.

OP, just used MrMalty. There is a slider at the bottom that you can move to make a starter with more or less yeast. I slid it to the right and get 1 pack and you need a 4.63 liter starter. On a stirplate. If you are not using one - get one. Still big but not as big as you came up with.

Using YeastCalc I get a 2.25 liter starter, again on a stirplate.

 

[millsbrew]

The point of a yeast starter from my understanding was to give the yeast a head start on any infection. Keep things clean regardless if using a starter or not. Brulosophy did an experiment showing a starter doesn’t change anything on a 5 gallon batch of a basic ale.

Edit: I also make the 2L starter so that I have yeast on hand for my next brew. I get a few batches out of each vial. Simple way to save money on each batch.

 

[Bassman2003]

I think it is tough to say anybody is wrong in the homebrew space. You will not go wrong by following Mr. Malty but you probably will not go wrong just pitching a vial either. I have found over the years that I make starters to eliminate lag time and to give the yeast a little head start. No doubt that pitching enough to plenty of yeast is the best way forward for quality beer.

I only brew 5 gallons and my usual method is one WL package and a 2 liter starter the night before. Pitch it all in and wait for the airlock bubbles in about 8 hours. Could be overkill but in my experience, if I only just pitch the vial, I could be waiting up to 40 hours. The beer will probably turn out fine but at the homebrew level I think lag time is the riskiest time for infection.

 

[kh54s10]

It is said that there is the possibility of off flavors from pitching too few cells. This occurs during the growth phase, which is the longer lag time as the yeast are multiplying. An average ale requires about 200 billion cells for an optimum pitch. Most liquid yeast packages until recently contained only about 100 billion cells on the day it was packaged. They start to lose cells right away.

The purpose of a starter is to grow enough cells for optimum pitching of healthy cells. You can do it by pitching multiple packs. But at $9+ each that gets expensive very quickly. DME for a starter costs about a third of the cost of a package of yeast.

I have never pitched a liquid pack/vial without making a starter first but the longest lag time I have had pitching a starter is pitching a starter at about 5pm and having fermentation the next morning, so it started during the night. Most will have started before I go to bed about 6 hours later.

 

[IslandLizard]

Mr. Malty is indeed quite conservative. But when you learn to use the tool, it will give a very good starting point of cell count needed and viability of a culture at hand.

I use Homebrew Dad's (BrewUnited) yeast calculator. It predicts, and probably still conservatively:

• the number of cells needed for a batch,
• the viability of a yeast culture, being it from a fresh pack, a ranched slurry, or a harvested yeast cake,
• and how much starter is needed to build up the cell count. Use a stir plate to maximize the effort, with a minimum amount of work and intervention.

One single pack or purepitch* sleeve of liquid yeast can easily become 200-400 billion cells (or more) in her first starter round. That can become 6-8 times that amount (or more) in the next round of starter(s).
DME runs $3-4 a pound. Each pound makes ~4500 ml of 1.037 starter wort, enough to grow at least 600-1200 billion cells, the same as in 6-12 fresh packs, and at 100% viability, ready to pitch.

* Purepitch sleeves actually hold their viability much longer than any other packaging. See White Labs' website.