Most aggressive yeast you know about?

[user 70770]

Please don't. I've done it twice, and both results sucked.

Out of curiosity, what specifically sucked? This is a genuine question as I don't have experience brewing with baker's yeast. But I read somewhere that it is traditional for gruit style beers and that it ferments very aggressively which is why I made the suggestion.

 

[z-bob]

I have used bread yeast to make a sparkling wine. IIRC, it was half Concord grape juice and half Niagara, so it was kind of a rose'. No sugar except for priming, and I used gelatin to clear it before bottling. I thought it turned out pretty good. And it was fast.

 

[dmtaylor]

Out of curiosity, what specifically sucked? This is a genuine question as I don't have experience brewing with baker's yeast. But I read somewhere that it is traditional for gruit style beers and that it ferments very aggressively which is why I made the suggestion.

Bread yeast makes your brew taste like.... bread yeast. It is tart, bready, and full of sulfur, as well as a slight acetone kind of chemically flavor. Not very good. I used it in a cider, and in a beer, and both were like this.

 

[tommyk421]

Seeing as OP preferred a dry yeast: I've just done two high gravity Belgians with Safale BE-256. Started bubbling within hours and got to FG (or below) within 4-5 days at 19degC

http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/SafAle-BE-2563.pdf

 

[patchedboard]

Making a gruit? Let it get soured. It would be traditional that way. In fact you could use raw unfiltered honey into the carboy and let the wild yeasts ferment your beer and any bacteria would sour it nicely too. It would be an ancient ale

 

[FatDragon]

S-04 has been the fastest yeast I've used. Mash low and it can attenuate moderately low as well, maybe 80%+ apparent attenuation.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Well, I just had three packets of Danstar Nottingham in 6gal of a 1.108 barleywine dislodge the top of of a bucket fermenter, the kind that lodges on, and then ferment it down to 1.010...

(...frankly, I'm scared. o.o)

 

[ftea]

Hot Head Ale Yeast. At 93 F it will be done in 48 hours

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for all the recommendations!

The wine yeast sounds very interesting, I will investigate a bit on that one.

I also think I will write wyeast an email and ask for their general advice.

I know I gruit is traditionally a sour beer and I made a lot of those sour gruits which I personally really liked, but not everybody is into sours as I am, so I wanted to develop a route that gives you more control about the intensity of the souring and, if necessary, would enable me to make an unsoured gruit.

And remember guys, it is not only about speed, it also should finish as dry as possible! High temperature during fermentation won't be possible, I am aiming at something lower than room temperature to inhibit bacterial growth.

 

[Hanglow]

If you want to try a wine yeast, get one that ferments maltotriose like Lalvin K1-V1116. I think it's a killer yeast though so I wouldn't co-pitch it, although you'd have to check that out as I'm not completely sure

Nottingham is the fastest dried yeast with good attenuation, belle saison has the greates attenuation but is a bit slower. If you are fermenting low as you say, then you could co-pitch these two as you won't get off flavours from notty and the belle saison should take the gravity right down in a week or two

 

[Miraculix]

If you want to try a wine yeast, get one that ferments maltotriose like Lalvin K1-V1116. I think it's a killer yeast though so I wouldn't co-pitch it, although you'd have to check that out as I'm not completely sure

Nottingham is the fastest dried yeast with good attenuation, belle saison has the greates attenuation but is a bit slower. If you are fermenting low as you say, then you could co-pitch these two as you won't get off flavours from notty and the belle saison should take the gravity right down in a week or two

That does sound like a good plan, combining Nottingham and belle Saison. I read a bit about Nottingham and it looks like an attenuation of 85-90% is possible with low mash temps. If the Saison yeast is then even cleaning up a bit further, there shouldn't be much left to feast on for the bacterias.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thanks, that sounds good! But aren't the English yeasts known for leaving quite a big amount of sugars behind?

Many do, some don't. Attenuation is loosely related to flocculation, and for cask ale you want good flocculation - 1968 is a classic example. However the Burton brewers were brewing for export so wanted high attentuation, and the taste in northern England is more towards drier, more bitter beers. The Burton Union system is effectively a yeast management system for high-attenuation, poor-floccing yeast.

So some of the Midlands/northern yeasts can give pretty good attenuation.

I must admit, my first thought was towards a Brett single fermentation, which can give huge attenuation and not much funk compared to a mixed fermentation.

 

[Miraculix]

Many do, some don't. Attenuation is loosely related to flocculation, and for cask ale you want good flocculation - 1968 is a classic example. However the Burton brewers were brewing for export so wanted high attentuation, and the taste in northern England is more towards drier, more bitter beers. The Burton Union system is effectively a yeast management system for high-attenuation, poor-floccing yeast.

So some of the Midlands/northern yeasts can give pretty good attenuation.

I must admit, my first thought was towards a Brett single fermentation, which can give huge attenuation and not much funk compared to a mixed fermentation.

I was also thinking about brett, never worked with it before. I often read that brett is very slow, that did put me off at the end.

PS thanks for the little tour through British beer taste, seems like I am living on the wrong end of Britain, no wonder that I do not like the local ales

 

[dmtaylor]

I often read that brett is very slow, that did put me off at the end.

Yes, it is slow, not aggressive in the dual-sense of both fast and high attenuation. That's what you're looking for, right? Something that is not just highly attenuative but also very fast? Gosh, you really cannot beat Notty for this IMO. Or Notty and Windsor together! Windsor will eat up 60% of the sugars in less than 36 hours, and then Notty to finish the job. It works very well.

 

[Sourz4life]

Kveik strains. They can ferment dry in about 2-3 days at temps of 100-110F, and the hotter it is the more esters they create with no off flavors. Voss and Hothead were isolated out of Kveik cultures. I currently have 12 different ones from different families in Norway that have been passed down for generations so over hundreds of years. You can't really get the cultures unless you know someone with them but they are the beasts of the brewing world. Escarpment Labs has been working with them alot lately to genetically trace them back and such but they've said Kveik will be the new powerhouse of the brewing world once we get it commercially available.

 

[permo]

Rignwood ale and WLP007. I have went grain to glass in 5 days with these on small beers

 

[z-bob]

Kveik strains. They can ferment dry in about 2-3 days at temps of 100-110F, and the hotter it is the more esters they create with no off flavors. Voss and Hothead were isolated out of Kveik cultures. I currently have 12 different ones from different families in Norway that have been passed down for generations so over hundreds of years. You can't really get the cultures unless you know someone with them but they are the beasts of the brewing world. Escarpment Labs has been working with them alot lately to genetically trace them back and such but they've said Kveik will be the new powerhouse of the brewing world once we get it commercially available.

I read with great interest about Kveik a few months ago, but didn't know there were any yeast strains available. I'll order some Hothead next spring to use in the summer, unless a real Kveik blend becomes available in the meantime. Thanks.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Note that "killer wine" yeasts are only killer to sacc strains. They do not affect brett, other killer wine yeasts, or bacteria. They may or may not affect sacc diastaticus strains like belle saison, not sure on that one.

 

[Mainer]

Kveik strains. They can ferment dry in about 2-3 days at temps of 100-110F, and the hotter it is the more esters they create with no off flavors. Voss and Hothead were isolated out of Kveik cultures. I currently have 12 different ones from different families in Norway that have been passed down for generations so over hundreds of years. You can't really get the cultures unless you know someone with them but they are the beasts of the brewing world. Escarpment Labs has been working with them alot lately to genetically trace them back and such but they've said Kveik will be the new powerhouse of the brewing world once we get it commercially available.

That sounds like a killer yeast bank. How would a fellow Mainer get his hands on some of that stash?

 

[frankktankk]

I've used Dry Belgian Ale from The Yeast Bay on a high og (1.12) brew, it ate all, almost fg 1.005.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

I've used Dry Belgian Ale from The Yeast Bay on a high og (1.12) brew, it ate all, almost fg 1.005.

I've heard it's quite a yeast. What was your mash temp? I'm going to be using it in a RIS and I'm trying to figure out my mash temp.

 

[Miraculix]

I've used Dry Belgian Ale from The Yeast Bay on a high og (1.12) brew, it ate all, almost fg 1.005.

Sounds good. How long did it take?

 

[xico]

As mentioned by others, mash temp will determine metabolic rate as well. Belle Saison (Danstar) and WY3711 (a personal favorite) are part of a subspecies/strain called diastaticus. Diastaticus strains are able to metabolize maltotriose and even dextrins. Their danger in the brewing industry as a contaminant is bottle bombs. I would recommend looking up which yeast fall under this category.

Yeast Bay has a Kviek yeast I haven't used yet that has temp range allowing for 30sC 90+F fermentation. That will surely speed the process up.

Yeast selection and health are a major player in your goals. Starters should contain yeast nutrient and energizer/dried yeast/servomyces.

Mash temp for a long hold at the beta amylase range before ramping up. This will yield the most fermentable wort, at 146-147F maltose is created slowly but saves time on the fermentation as all the sugars are easily utilizable and more uniform which requires less metabolic changes in the fermentation. i cut my brettanomyces fermentations by months even with this method.

If you are going for fastest production though, does that mean alcohol production or conditioning as well? Some aggressive yeast are also POF positive, meaning they make phenols that I find improve when they meld with the other flavors with a little bit of time. The fermentation and bottling could happen in 4-5 days but some sit for 4 - 6 weeks in the basement. Others might finish quickly but also flocculate early and leave behind some diacetyl.

 

[Sourz4life]

That sounds like a killer yeast bank. How would a fellow Mainer get his hands on some of that stash?

I'm opening up a sour beer brewer in Brewer Maine in the next month or so and we will also have a yeast lab where we offer yeast to pro and homebrewers. We'll have those Kveik strains as well as a ton of wild yeast, bacteria, Brett etc. We currently have 528 strains in the bank and most of them will be available.

 

[Miraculix]

As mentioned by others, mash temp will determine metabolic rate as well. Belle Saison (Danstar) and WY3711 (a personal favorite) are part of a subspecies/strain called diastaticus. Diastaticus strains are able to metabolize maltotriose and even dextrins. Their danger in the brewing industry as a contaminant is bottle bombs. I would recommend looking up which yeast fall under this category.

Yeast Bay has a Kviek yeast I haven't used yet that has temp range allowing for 30sC 90+F fermentation. That will surely speed the process up.

Yeast selection and health are a major player in your goals. Starters should contain yeast nutrient and energizer/dried yeast/servomyces.

Mash temp for a long hold at the beta amylase range before ramping up. This will yield the most fermentable wort, at 146-147F maltose is created slowly but saves time on the fermentation as all the sugars are easily utilizable and more uniform which requires less metabolic changes in the fermentation. i cut my brettanomyces fermentations by months even with this method.

If you are going for fastest production though, does that mean alcohol production or conditioning as well? Some aggressive yeast are also POF positive, meaning they make phenols that I find improve when they meld with the other flavors with a little bit of time. The fermentation and bottling could happen in 4-5 days but some sit for 4 - 6 weeks in the basement. Others might finish quickly but also flocculate early and leave behind some diacetyl.

Yepp, that is the mashing plan, long and very low, I agree.

Good info about the sub species, thanks.

I think the beer improves a lot by staying on the yeast for some time. I am planning to leave it in primary for about a month or a week and a month (the usual time I leave it in there, my current Stout is in week three Btw ) . This usually does wonders to the taste

 

[frankktankk]

I've heard it's quite a yeast. What was your mash temp? I'm going to be using it in a RIS and I'm trying to figure out my mash temp.

About 65C

Sounds good. How long did it take?

10days, I fed it some wort boiled down with sugar at day 3 to help it along.

 

[Queequeg]

Came in to suggest 3711. Left happy.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

About 65C



10days, I fed it some wort boiled down with sugar at day 3 to help it along.

65C? Holy cow! Might need to mash around 69C then..........

 

[hottpeper13]

Well, if the question was whether "all beer potentially gets infected without hops," then it's definitely true. I mean, all beer potentially gets infected either way. In fact, before you open the carboy and find out, your beer is already potentially infected. In a way, it can be said that your beer is simultaneously infected and not infected until you open the carboy and find out.

Schrodingers Beer!

 

[Mainer]

Schrodingers Beer!

Yep, that's where I was going with that.