More fermentation temperature reproach

[applescrap]

So tasting them again tonight, you know getting cereal.

The german beer is very german, says on the bottle. Brewed under the German Purity laws of what is that German word again(reinheitsge?) I think I've narrowed it down to boiled for a really long time and also more bitter. Mine is cascade hops and 2 row. Much less bitter. Both are Dunkels, kind of like California Pizza Kitchen and New York Pizza. Both are Pizza. They're not that far apart but just you know giving an idea.

View attachment 1472789228550.jpg

 

[danok1]

Your very first post starts off:

Dont mean to be reproach, but i think fermenting lager, helles, whatever in your basement/somewhere cool is fine. I will be brewing my first helles/lager something soon. Obviously using 34/70 or wlp 800. I hope to write an article someday and will be very critical in analyzing the small but sufficient data available. To me this process outlined below seems unnecessary. 7 pounds pilsner and a pinch of hops is going to taste like 7 pounds pilsner and a pinch of hops regardless of fermentation temperature.
http://byo.com/mead/item/747-helles-style-profile

Is there any way to read this other than you saying fermentation temperature doesn't matter, and thus doesn't need to be controlled?

That's a serious question, by the way, not snark. If it means something else, please explain.

-Dan

 

[applescrap]

Is this a trick question, no snark here either. Isnt that the whole point of this discussion. For the most part fermentation temperature doesn't matter. And my shiny new soap box.....the yeast makers put 24 degree ranges on the product. Boom.

 

[applescrap]

Your very first post starts off:



Is there any way to read this other than you saying fermentation temperature doesn't matter, and thus doesn't need to be controlled?

That's a serious question, by the way, not snark. If it means something else, please explain.

-Dan

Secondarily thanks for posting this because clearly one can see that i didnt state everyone was wrong and that they had to do it my way.

 

[danok1]

In your reply to Yooper, you say:

This brewing dogmatism holds people back from using a whole world of interesting beer making. Quite frankly i am a little surprised that a lover of home brew as yourself would not be fully supporting and experimenting. As always i hope we can continue discussing this and I value your opinion.

One can infer from this that you'd like to see people abandon their tried-and-true processes.

Or maybe you just mean, "Hey, take the time to occasionally experiment and see what happens." And I think many of us here would agree.

As far as your point about the manufacturer's tramp ranges are concerned, you gloss over the fact that they also state IDEAL temp ranges for the yeast. Looks like 12 degrees for the ale, and 6 degrees for the lager. And Fermentis also states that the IDEAL range for the lager is 53-59.

 

[g-star]

Despite the best efforts of some, this thread is a disaster.

The OP can barely express a coherent thought, and is convinced that anecdotal findings of a tiny sample size are somehow more valid that decades of research into best practice by professionals and brewing scientists alike.

I have come to think that in some ways “Brulosopher” has done more harm than good to the hobby of homebrewing, though obviously that is not his intent. In the age of anti-intellectualism and the internet everyone is an expert and “has done their research”. Anecdotal evidence is taken as gospel and is seized upon to reinforce a certain viewpoint. Conclusions are made first, then anything to support it no matter how tenuous is held as “evidence”. This is completely ass-backwards when it comes to science. Meanwhile, they often have zero idea about what constitutes real research and what is *meaningful data*.

I’m all for brew how and what you like, and blah blah blah. But the willful ignorance and the inability to see past one’s nose when it comes to the pursuit of objective truth is really laughable…but mostly sad.

 

[danok1]

I have come to think that in some ways “Brulosopher” has done more harm than good to the hobby of homebrewing, though obviously that is not his intent. In the age of anti-intellectualism and the internet everyone is an expert and “has done their research”. Anecdotal evidence is taken as gospel and is seized upon to reinforce a certain viewpoint. Conclusions are made first, then anything to support it no matter how tenuous is held as “evidence”. This is completely ass-backwards when it comes to science. Meanwhile, they often have zero idea about what constitutes real research and what is *meaningful data*.

I'm leaning this way as well. I take Marshall's work to mean "don't freak if you're a bit off with temps, etc." And none of the Brulosophy crew take their findings as reason to abandon the "best practices." Even they're skeptical in regards to their results.

I've said it before in this thread...the way to convince folks that lager fermentation temperatures don't really matter is to split a batch, ferment one half in the "normal" way and the other half "warm". Enter samples from both batches in the same contests. Do this repeatedly, and in different contests. If the scores and comments for each batch are similar (and it helps if the beers place equally well), THEN I for one would be willing to change my ways. Otherwise, I think we're done here.

-Dan

 

[applescrap]

In your reply to Yooper, you say:



One can infer from this that you'd like to see people abandon their tried-and-true processes.

Or maybe you just mean, "Hey, take the time to occasionally experiment and see what happens." And I think many of us here would agree.

As far as your point about the manufacturer's tramp ranges are concerned, you gloss over the fact that they also state IDEAL temp ranges for the yeast. Looks like 12 degrees for the ale, and 6 degrees for the lager. And Fermentis also states that the IDEAL range for the lager is 53-59.

Stating dogma is holding someone back verses they should abandon their tried and true methods is a little to big of a jump, isnt it. I like option b, though. Sure i did, but you gloss over the fact that it is still there.

 

[joshesmusica]

To be certain, of the two options presented at the top of this page (page 4 for me), I prefer the one on the right just by looks alone.

Also, you really should stop with the statement "just some 2-row and some hops," as to me, that implies simply 2-row pale malt, and hops, which would obviously give you a much lighter beer.

As everyone's saying here though, just give it a try to ferment two beers at completely different temperatures. I think you might actually be surprised by the differences. At this point, it's just hard to not believe it's confirmation bias playing a major part in this.

After that, ferment one batch with a lager strain and one with a saison strain at the same temps, then tell me that "whatever ingredients go into the pot is what you get."

Dan highlighted some of the points that I was talking about. So if it's not what you meant, then, again, I encourage you to take the time to actually type out what you mean and make it understandable. Until then, people will continue to misunderstand your intentions.

 

[jddevinn]

7 pounds pilsner and a pinch of hops is going to taste like 7 pounds pilsner and a pinch of hops regardless of fermentation temperature.

i believe that the chemists, biologists, and professional brewers that put an acceptable 24 degree range on their product that they sale, which we all use, might be right when it comes to fermentation temperature.

I can't even determine what the point you are trying to make is anymore other than your beer is "good, cheap and tastes exactly like every commercial example" and that you don't measure, adjust or care about a single aspect of your brewing from gravity, temperatures, basic water chemistry because none of these things matter. You've contradicted yourself over temperature range in the above posts.

FYI, temperature ranges on the yeast are there for the range that they will ferment correctly. Many yeasts will give off a different flavor and character at the low temp range compared to the higher temperature range.

The Saflager W-34/40 datasheet does give an 23.4°F allowable fermentation range. However, it also gives a 5.4°F recommended range and states

Given the impact of yeast of the quality of the final beer it is recommended to respect the recommended fermentation instructions.[ie the 5.4°F range] We strongly advise users to make fermentation trials before any commercial usage of our products.

 

[applescrap]

To be certain, of the two options presented at the top of this page (page 4 for me), I prefer the one on the right just by looks alone.

Also, you really should stop with the statement "just some 2-row and some hops," as to me, that implies simply 2-row pale malt, and hops, which would obviously give you a much lighter beer.

As everyone's saying here though, just give it a try to ferment two beers at completely different temperatures. I think you might actually be surprised by the differences. At this point, it's just hard to not believe it's confirmation bias playing a major part in this.

After that, ferment one batch with a lager strain and one with a saison strain at the same temps, then tell me that "whatever ingredients go into the pot is what you get."

Dan highlighted some of the points that I was talking about. So if it's not what you meant, then, again, I encourage you to take the time to actually type out what you mean and make it understandable. Until then, people will continue to misunderstand your intentions.

Exactly, you make the point of my saying very well here. A lager will taste like a lager and a saison will taste like a saison. What you use is what you get for the most part. But then there's the, who's the brewer Factor and how they brew. Both are given way too much emphasis in my opinion. I mean why do people have such little faith in how others Brew. I have faith in your ability to brew, do you in mine? If not, why? Consider that joke psylocide pulled on everybody. Man people were quick to jump in with noob advice.

The point he made about me saying Brewing Dogma was holding people back from experimenting to the light year jump I'm telling people to abandon their tried-and-true process?

I have started to explain why I don't need to split batches elsewhere a few posts back.

 

[applescrap]

Despite the best efforts of some, this thread is a disaster.

The OP can barely express a coherent thought, and is convinced that anecdotal findings of a tiny sample size are somehow more valid that decades of research into best practice by professionals and brewing scientists alike.

I have come to think that in some ways “Brulosopher” has done more harm than good to the hobby of homebrewing, though obviously that is not his intent. In the age of anti-intellectualism and the internet everyone is an expert and “has done their research”. Anecdotal evidence is taken as gospel and is seized upon to reinforce a certain viewpoint. Conclusions are made first, then anything to support it no matter how tenuous is held as “evidence”. This is completely ass-backwards when it comes to science. Meanwhile, they often have zero idea about what constitutes real research and what is *meaningful data*.

I’m all for brew how and what you like, and blah blah blah. But the willful ignorance and the inability to see past one’s nose when it comes to the pursuit of objective truth is really laughable…but mostly sad.

Congratulations on being an ignore consideration. Since this thread is such a disaster it would be great if you didn't post again.

 

[applescrap]

I can't even determine what the point you are trying to make is anymore other than your beer is "good, cheap and tastes exactly like every commercial example" and that you don't measure, adjust or care about a single aspect of your brewing from gravity, temperatures, basic water chemistry because none of these things matter. You've contradicted yourself over temperature range in the above posts.

FYI, temperature ranges on the yeast are there for the range that they will ferment correctly. Many yeasts will give off a different flavor and character at the low temp range compared to the higher temperature range.

The Saflager W-34/40 datasheet does give an 23.4°F allowable fermentation range. However, it also gives a 5.4°F recommended range and states

Srsly? I mean really, srsly?

I contradicted Myself by saying fermentation temperature didn't matter and offering a 24 degree range by the company that made the yeast...... in light of the fact that many are discussing using Johnson Control temperature fridges that keep an exact temperature within what +- 1 degree. 24 degrees from 48 to 72 degrees is not the control being argued here, come on man.

Now i dont care about every aspect of brewing ehh. You state


""I can't even determine what the point you are trying to make is anymore other than your beer is "good, cheap and tastes exactly like every commercial example" and that you don't measure, adjust or care about a single aspect of your brewing from gravity, temperatures, basic water chemistry because none of these things matter.."

Water is a key ingredient of beer. So if a key theory to me is what goes in the pot and its quality is what comes out, then explain to me where and how i said it doesnt matter. Also explain to me where i completely and totally dismiss every single brewing aspect. Ughh, are you serious.

 

[dryboroughbrewing]

I think it is sometimes difficult to grasp the meaning of some of your posts due to the word choices and grammar issues. I'm sure it's just because English isn't your first language, but it's certainly not made your thought process any easy to follow.

 

[jddevinn]

I really want to leave this thread but can not seem to get myself to.

Srsly? I mean really, srsly?

I contradicted Myself by saying fermentation temperature didn't matter and offering a 24 degree range by the company that made the yeast...... in light of the fact that many are discussing using Johnson Control temperature fridges that keep an exact temperature within what +- 1 degree. 24 degrees from 48 to 72 degrees is not the control being argued here, come on man.

Well you said you believe what is on the label, which is a recommended range of 5.4°F. That is a pretty specific range. Do you believe the manufacturer or do you believe that tempertures doesn't matter? Can't be both.

Now i dont care about every aspect of brewing ehh. You state


""I can't even determine what the point you are trying to make is anymore other than your beer is "good, cheap and tastes exactly like every commercial example" and that you don't measure, adjust or care about a single aspect of your brewing from gravity, temperatures, basic water chemistry because none of these things matter.."

Water is a key ingredient of beer. So if a key theory to me is what goes in the pot and its quality is what comes out, then explain to me where and how i said it doesnt matter. Also explain to me where i completely and totally dismiss every single brewing aspect. Ughh, are you serious.

Well, your statements seem to be that you don't care.

Mine was made with Denver tap water , which needs Camden, and I didn't use it.

Test after test showing little to no difference based on fermentation temperature, mash temperature and other dogmatic variables.

What tests???

I never get technical on that level.

As everyone who knows me knows i dont own a hydrometer.

I don't know what temp it is in there

This passion about a beer that is going to be drank in a couple weeks and brewed again, i will never understand.

For the love of God it's just a freakin beer. Why do I have to be making the best beer ever made in the world? Is that what this thread is about? Is that the whole point here who makes the best beer.

I don't care if it's consistent

Both are Dunkels, kind of like California Pizza Kitchen and New York Pizza

 

[jddevinn]

I suggest that you send some of this "high temperature lager" beer into a beer competition to get some unbiased feedback.

 

[applescrap]

I suggest that you send some of this "high temperature lager" beer into a beer competition to get some unbiased feedback.

If i do, what do i get? A medal, your approval, an i was right ribbon? Can i believe fermentation temperature is not as significant as some would suggest without the desire to compete or seek the label of best beer in the world? I already stated that your beer is better than mine.

On brew network marshall glossed over it, but mentioned vienna lager brewed at 64 advanced at nhc or something like that.

 

[applescrap]

I really want to leave this thread but can not seem to get myself to.



Well you said you believe what is on the label, which is a recommended range of 5.4°F. That is a pretty specific range. Do you believe the manufacturer or do you believe that tempertures doesn't matter? Can't be both.



Well, your statements seem to be that you don't care.




What tests???

I would enjoy your company on a lighter thread. Join us on the friendly thread. Cheers

Hey quoting me out of context, thats not playing fair. Of course i dont own a hydrometer, gave a really good rationale once will try to find it. The rest doesn't really add up to i dont measure, clean, sanitize understand brewing etc..

Consider this, would it be possible for me to not care at all about brewing and make good beer because i know how to?

 

[applescrap]

A word about water. As I have stated our tap water comes with a Homebrew profile through Denver Water. Based on my travels I believe it is plausible that my water untreated is significantly better then some peoples treated. According to Huffington Post Denver has the fourth best water in the nation and my hometown of Fort Collins is 6th. I have had tap water that I don't care how you treated it, it would never create a beer as good as my just general tap water. I do believe some campden tablets would be nice and I am always interested in using the best water I possibly can as I've stated time and time again. Because what you put in the pot is what comes out for the most part. Imho.

I think our water quality has something to do with the snow runoff coming off our high peaks.

 

[applescrap]

@jddevinn

You were cool enough to quote me as I asked so I have to respond.

I addressed the water issue above. That doesn't mean I have no care about basic Brewing.

Tests....The five experiments done by brulosophy, my own beer. And the, for lack of a better term s*** ton of anecdotal evidence on this site and the rest of the internet. The packaging on the yeast and the tests they ran to put it there. Just for starters

I can't remember what context you took that technical quote out of but it was well beyond measuring Mash temp if I remember correctly.

I'll find the hydrometer response. But as just a little taste, how many batches do you have to brew and measure before you decide to quit, because you are just confident in the result. Also I use other methods of measurement that I think many people overlook like My nose, my eyes , my taste buds and any other sensory data.

I was being a little facetious about the temp in that room but truly I don't know. I know it's less than 72 degrees though from common sense. It's my dark little workroom on the garden level.

Not understanding the passionate Dogma associated with all this over a glass of beer doesn't mean I don't care how it actually tastes or is made. Just means I'm not so married to my process that I'm not willing to change it at the drop of a hat or reconsider basic understanding that's right in front of me and written on the yeast packet.

I don't care if it's consistent I really don't. That doesn't mean mine isn't consistent. In actual fact I think my beer is very consistent. Can you believe it? can it be consistent even though I don't care about it being consistent?

I can see why you might not like California Pizza Kitchen.

 

[casualbrewer]

OP you may want to try out those other yeasts. You are testing basically one yeast which is almost in my opinion a hybrid strain. I have used 34/70 at higher temps with good success also. It is basically labeled a lager yeast that doesn't readily throw off flavors as easily as others. Is this the best lager yeast ever?..... Probably not as it isn't as clean as other yeasts such as wlp940 for example (which is MY personal favorite). Pitch a single packet or vial of some other lager yeasts and you may end up with beer that tastes like awful buttered popcorn. Now I like 34/70 but it is extremely forgiving. I bet if your beer started tasting like butter or green apples then you would want to refine your process... Example: temp control. We aren't here bashing your perceived results but rather trying to help you understand that certain things need to be controlled better as we all learned the hard way. I myself produced 2 diacetyl bombs. One with wlp800 and one with wlp840. Wlp940 though is super clean ad long as you keep temps in check. If not you will get some apple character from it. For me, I want to be able to refine my process... I though my early beers tasted good too until I started refining. I will say that the biggest thing that improved my beers was temp control. It was almost night and day. Even the brulosopher controlled his higher temps. Room temp almost doesn't matter unless it's in the 40's. He didn't ferment at room temperature. He is precisely controlling the fermentation temperature of the beer while the yeast are working. Food for thought

 

[applescrap]

Everybody feels so free to ask me questions, but very few have answered mine. Here are some questions, you don't have to post them but i hope they give you something to think about.

Are you married to your process and system? If so why?

Why do you do the things you do in brewing?

How do you know that some of these processes are the only way?

Have you ever made a warm ferment lager? If not how do you know it won't work?

Have you ever tasted a warm ferment lager? If not how do you know what it tastes like?

How often do you change the way you brew?

How willing are you to change the way you brew?

Have you tasted every grain in your LHBS?

What is your pony in this conversation anyways?

Do you trust the way people brew?

Why does the beer someone makes have to be the best?

I will think of more, this is a good start

 

[applescrap]

OP you may want to try out those other yeasts. You are testing basically one yeast which is almost in my opinion a hybrid strain. I have used 34/70 at higher temps with good success also. It is basically labeled a lager yeast that doesn't readily throw off flavors as easily as others. Is this the best lager yeast ever?..... Probably not as it isn't as clean as other yeasts such as wlp940 for example (which is MY personal favorite). Pitch a single packet or vial of some other lager yeasts and you may end up with beer that tastes like awful buttered popcorn. Now I like 34/70 but it is extremely forgiving. I bet if your beer started tasting like butter or green apples then you would want to refine your process... Example: temp control. We aren't here bashing your perceived results but rather trying to help you understand that certain things need to be controlled better as we all learned the hard way. I myself produced 2 diacetyl bombs. One with wlp800 and one with wlp840. Wlp940 though is super clean ad long as you keep temps in check. If not you will get some apple character from it. For me, I want to be able to refine my process... I though my early beers tasted good too until I started refining. I will say that the biggest thing that improved my beers was temp control. It was almost night and day. Even the brulosopher controlled his higher temps. Room temp almost doesn't matter unless it's in the 40's. He didn't ferment at room temperature. He is precisely controlling the fermentation temperature of the beer while the yeast are working. Food for thought

This is so good, ill comment later, but really well done here. You are right, if i tasted green apple and butter i would be like, something wasnt right here.

 

[flars]

Flaming fantastic humor.

 

[Erik_Mog]

Are you married to your process and system? If so why?
--Not especially. As a fairly new brewer, I am willing to try different techniques if I think they will improve my beers.

Why do you do the things you do in brewing?
--It's they way I have learned though trial and error, research, and asking for advice on these forums, and from some local breweries.

How do you know that some of these processes are the only way?
--I don't think they are the only way, but what I have been doing has made some pretty good beers IMO. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Have you ever made a warm ferment lager? If not how do you know it won't work?
--I have not made one, but may give it a try and compare it to one fermented at traditional lager temps to see if I can tell a difference.

Have you ever tasted a warm ferment lager? If not how do you know what it tastes like?
--I have not tasted one to my knowledge (see answer to previous question).

How often do you change the way you brew?
--I am a fairly new brewer, and have changed processes several times, going from no temp control, to temp controlled fermentation, adjusting my brewing water, going from extract to all grain, moving late addition hops to a hop stand and using considerably more hops, etc.....

How willing are you to change the way you brew?
--I will make changes if I see a benefit to doing so.

Have you tasted every grain in your LHBS?
--I have not tasted every grain they have (they are sister company to a local brewery, so have a large selection), but I do taste the grains I plan to use for a beer prior to actually using it.

What is your pony in this conversation anyways?
--I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm following the conversation to see if I can pick up things to improve my brewing.

Do you trust the way people brew?
--Why wouldn't I? If I didn't, I would not ask for advice from other home brewers. Every one does things there own way, and I am willing to consider all options before making a final decision.

Why does the beer someone makes have to be the best?
--The beer someone makes doesn't have to be the best beer in the world, just the best beer they can make. I brew my beer for myself, and my friends. I want to make the best beer "I" can make. I cook professionally, and to me it's a pride thing. I want to make food that I am proud to serve, and I want to make beer that I am proud to share with my friends. It's probably not the best beer in the world, but it's the best beer I can make at this point in time. That being said, I am entering two beers in a competition in October. Do I think I have any real chance of winning, or even getting any type of medal? Probably not, but I want the feedback to learn what I can do to make my beers something that I can be proud of. I have a lot to learn still, and this is one way to do it.

If your process is turning out beer that you enjoy, and that you are proud of, then what you are doing is right for you, and if they way I or some one else brews makes beer we are proud of, then that process is right for us. As I said, I have not been brewing that long, but I look at it like a lot of other things in life...what I am doing is working, but I am willing to consider other options if I feel it will make an improvement.

Sorry to ramble on man....Cheers and brew on

 

[applescrap]

Flars, You are funny, really you are.

 

[Erik_Mog]

You are funny, really you are.

If you are referring to me, I don't see what was humorous about my post. You posed a list of questions, and I answered them as honestly as I could.

 

[ChefRex]

Thanks @Passedpawn for creating a monster.

 

[applescrap]

If you are referring to me, I don't see what was humorous about my post. You posed a list of questions, and I answered them as honestly as I could.

Omg no, that was for funny flars. You are awesome and i enjoyed your answers. You're a professional that's not fair. Saw that about cooking and was like this guy can Brew. A talented chef can no doubt clearly see many of the points i am making. I assume similar conversations happen in your field about processes. Anyways appreciate your post. And hope you add more

 

[applescrap]

Thanks @Passedpawn for creating a monster.

Hey its rex the grouch everyone

 

[seabass07]

If you want to take shortcuts with lagers, then go for it. Just because you're ok with the final product doesn't mean other people are.

 

[applescrap]

If you want to take shortcuts with lagers, then go for it. Just because you're ok with the final product doesn't mean other people are.

No it doesn't mean that, but they might be!

 

[applescrap]

So lhbs only had one pack of 34 70 left. Said they had sold a lot lately. When I have mentioned Camden tablets to both guys there, they were both like uhh, duhh. Nobody treats their water around here I suspect. It's not good enough for me, bought the Camden tablets and I'm hoping somebody here can help me on how to use them and when to put them in. I'm going to use Jamil and Palmer's recipe for helles. 10 pounds 2 row, 12 ounce Munich, and 4 ounce melanoidin. Was planning on continuing using the Cascade pound I bought , but I'm going to maybe Splash out the $3 on a German hop. I know I said I would use white labs , but when I saw the 3470 I couldn't resist for my second batch of lager. I need a second corny keg to get this thing going.

 

[applescrap]

Wondering about putting fruit in this beer now. Or maybe jolly ranchers. Don't think i will win any awards with something like that in helles category. Chilli would be good, i don't like chilli beers though. A tincture of Rosemary and ?. Honestly I have brewed over a dozen ales like this. I know this is a lager, but still i see beer like this as a blank canvas.

 

[danok1]

I have mentioned Camden tablets to both guys there, they were both like uhh, duhh. Nobody treats their water around here I suspect. It's not good enough for me, bought the Camden tablets and I'm hoping somebody here can help me on how to use them and when to put them in.

I use 1/4 tablet per 5 gallons. I crush it and add to the water after I've collected the water from the tap. Stir until dissolved. (Doesn't take long to dissolve.)

Hope this helps.

-Dan

 

[applescrap]

How i brew at this moment. First off im a little obsesed with sanitation and cleanliness. I chose to not put anything in my Kettle for that reason. Although i would certainly be willing to use a welded connection. I've seen some setups that I'm certain if I went in there with a wrench and started taking stuff apart there would be some very undesirable looking stuff. Even if it doesnt matter i feel it does(its my dogma!). No seams no hiding places. Everything clean and sanitized. I put water in based on biab calculators and the like, but mostly not to worried because I can boil longer or shorter if I want and have no trouble adjusting hop schedules or turning heat up. If the final result is a little stronger or weaker than recipe I'm never too worried about it. Specially with a beer like this Dunkel. With an IPA, I'll get a little more serious because there's so many more hops & different times that i dont want to have to adjust much. I usually end up with about the exact same amount in the fermenter every time, but its still a work in process. I'm continually considering water as it's the main ingredient. Always consider, adjusting, changing water.


I heat the water 10 minutes or so with a 5500 watt element to 165ish and pull element. Put bag in and dump grains in as fast as possible, then i start stirring holding bag closed with one hand and stirring with my other huge hand. Because you get a little treat when cranking a mash paddle around like a human kitchen aid in 8 gallons water and 13 pounds of grain, if you dont close bag over grains. That treat is searing hot water splashing you.

I start 45 minute mash timer and stir for a good 5 minutes. Stopping normally at 152 deg. farenheit. I can see and smell the mash forming. I then wrap it with an old huge down jacket. And cover with bag. In winter add a towell. Come back after 40 minutes into mash and take temp inside and outside bag. Stir the f..k out of the bag again. Take temp and stir more. Never lose more than a few degrees. Stir more. Until timer sometimes after. Pull bag and put in a colander over a clean sanitized bucket. I then use small pot lid and slowly and persistently get liquid out. Lose little liquid. Add that squeezed wort to kettle heating. 10 minutes or so later boiling. 45 minute boil timer set, hops added according to schedule. I sometimes adjust for 45 minute boil ibus. The boil is, as dr. Banforth so eloquently states, vigorous. I keep the 5500 watt element at 55 percent, but can go higher or lower. The boil is freaking intense at 60 percent. I measure gallons with ruler and adjust boil to match. I sanitize fermentor, everything, pot lid, side of pot, area around pot, temp probe, ruler, i create sanitized plate for tools. Chiller everything gets a star san bath. Im so happy outside. Then hook chiller up and takes 10 minutes or so to chill batch. Chill as low as i can get. Matching yeast temp. Throw dry yeast in and put in dark garden level work room.

As it ferments i smell it. I smell the airlock and shine lights down in it from above. I glean massive amounts of information how the light shines through, the observeable ferment line and krausen rise and fall and how the light penetrates the beer. Also glean from scent. I can smell ferment a mile away. It is a dirty business. When my one keg is ready, i rack it, carb it, and drink it. Repeat.

All told 2.5 hours.



Would like another keg to keep pipeline going better.

 

[casualbrewer]

I wouldn't add anything to a Helles. They are delicious as is. Simplicity is the key here. Last Helles I made was with 34/70 and it turned out mighty tasty.

 

[joshesmusica]

Also, if your main point is to brew this helles warm and see if it comes out with any off-flavors, the more adjuncts you add, the more off-flavors you're going to mask. So in pursuit of your goal of creating an anecdotal, no off-flavor, quick turnaround, warm-fermented lager, I would stick to the recipe.

 

[applescrap]

I use 1/4 tablet per 5 gallons. I crush it and add to the water after I've collected the water from the tap. Stir until dissolved. (Doesn't take long to dissolve.)

Hope this helps.

-Dan

Thanks dan, hope they are not to hard to split. It says 1 tablet per 5 gallons? I think thats could be for wine. I get a pic later.

 

[danok1]

Thanks dan, hope they are not to hard to split. It says 1 tablet per 5 gallons? I think thats could be for wine. I get a pic later.

Yup, that's for wine (have to kill the yeast on the fruit/must. Don't need that much to just remove the chloramines). They're not hard to split. I use a sharp paring knife.

-Dan