schmurf
Well-Known Member
Better late than never, here's a pic of my brew....a month old now. It's a really tasty ale!
British Golden Ale Miraculix Best - Classic English Ale
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OP
OP
Nice one!
Colour looks exactly like mine, I just had a bit more head, but that might also be just the pouring.
schmurf
Well-Known Member
It's usually a bit more head but I was running low on co2 so it was a slow pour and also let it sit for 20 minutes before I started to drink it/took the pic, was a bit too cold at first. But nevertheless, the head is something I should work on.
OP
OP
The golden syrup gives some caramel taste. But maybe the honey works also in a good way, only one way to find out!
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HOney is effectively ~85% invert. You can put it in a mason jar in the oven for 60-120 minutes at 250F and it will darken over time. Pretty easy.
I want to brew this--or something as close as I can get to it. I have no idea where I would get 10% golden syrup around here, so I'd like to sub some other sugar. How would turbinado sugar work for this? And what proportions of tubinado to golden?
brewbama
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Lyle’s Golden Syrup is sold in the grocery store here in Huntsville AL.
I am in complete agreement!
I am in complete agreement!
deere322
Former Sloper
Personally, I'd go for organic cane sugar or turbinado only because it doesn't impart much flavor like Lyle's golden syrup. I find it adds too much toffee to my liking.
you can get it off of amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Lyles-Golden...+golden+syrup&qid=1561855380&s=gateway&sr=8-4
cyberbackpacker
Well-Known Member
At around only 10 ounces, I would use Demerera (or "Sugar in the Raw" aka Turbinado) in a pinch. Better would be to make some of your own Invert Sugar #1. A very small amount of lactic acid, table sugar, pot, heat, and 20 minutes of time and you'll be golden! (pun intended 
)
Edited: for clarity and accuracy
)Edited: for clarity and accuracy
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@MaxStout Here's a guide on how to make your own invert.
Some folks like the stovetop method. Personally, I prefer to do it in mason jars in an oven set to 250F. Fill a couple of mason jars with the sugar solution, put on a tray in the oven (in case you spill the first batch like I did). The oven method you don't have to watch too closely. And you can take out a mason jar at different levels of darkness. This is kinda slow, so invert #4 takes at least 2 hours for me.
Some folks like the stovetop method. Personally, I prefer to do it in mason jars in an oven set to 250F. Fill a couple of mason jars with the sugar solution, put on a tray in the oven (in case you spill the first batch like I did). The oven method you don't have to watch too closely. And you can take out a mason jar at different levels of darkness. This is kinda slow, so invert #4 takes at least 2 hours for me.
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@MaxStout BTW, a year ago I did the whole use golden syrup (I think it is only 50% invert), black treacle (again only 50% invert), make my own from sugar and citric acid on the stove and in the oven, and just use 5# of Costco honey in the oven.
Note: I'm not English nor do I play one on TV. I've never been to the UK nor have had a proper pint on cask in the UK. The Machine House Brewery in Seattle claim to serve a proper pint, and I like their stuff, but no idea how an aficionado would rate them.
Hoping others that actually know what they are talking about can weigh in on the pure honey invert method? For me, it's by far the easiest hack but I can't comment on how it stack ranks with real invert.
I bought invert #1 off of amazon to test out how it tasted. Never tried a side by side comparison. that said, it certainly seemed to add some character to the final product.
Making my own out of sugar was easy.
Note: I'm not English nor do I play one on TV. I've never been to the UK nor have had a proper pint on cask in the UK. The Machine House Brewery in Seattle claim to serve a proper pint, and I like their stuff, but no idea how an aficionado would rate them.
Hoping others that actually know what they are talking about can weigh in on the pure honey invert method? For me, it's by far the easiest hack but I can't comment on how it stack ranks with real invert.
I bought invert #1 off of amazon to test out how it tasted. Never tried a side by side comparison. that said, it certainly seemed to add some character to the final product.
Making my own out of sugar was easy.
Golden Syrup most likely adds other tastes that are okay but I didn't find the results spectacular.
Black treacle in a very small dosage like 1/4 cup for 5 gallons aided head retention and my palate didn't notice the taste at that low dosage. However, at higher levels it certainly added a molasses taste, which was fine in the odd batch but not something I wanted every time.
To make a long boring story short, its pretty easy to DIY but you can order off of Amazon and try out the Lyles hacks.
Black treacle in a very small dosage like 1/4 cup for 5 gallons aided head retention and my palate didn't notice the taste at that low dosage. However, at higher levels it certainly added a molasses taste, which was fine in the odd batch but not something I wanted every time.
To make a long boring story short, its pretty easy to DIY but you can order off of Amazon and try out the Lyles hacks.
OP
OP
It does add a bit of toffee, but this is part of the recipe and fits very well. I would stick to the syrup, if available. At least for the first run, bit I'll doubt that you would want to change it for the second time brewing this beer after trying the beer.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
At around only 10 ounces, I would use Demerera ("Sugar in the Raw") in a pinch. Better would be to make some of your own Invert Sugar #1. A very small amount of lactic acid, table sugar, pot, heat, and 20 minutes of time and you'll be golden! (pun intended
Demerara is much darker and more robust than "Sugar in the Raw" (which is more like Turbinado).
Thanks for the help. I want to keep it as close to authentic as I can, so I'll make up a batch of invert syrup. And if that doesn't work out, I can always order a can of Lyle's from Amazon.
another link to make your own invert sugar
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/made-simple-invert-sugars-jeff-alworths-method.628857/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/made-simple-invert-sugars-jeff-alworths-method.628857/
OK, being rather bored today, I decided to try the @Schlenkerla method of making invert using a pound of sugar, pint of water, and citric acid. I had trouble keeping the temp within the 240-250F range, and the temp crept up to around 270F the last 10 minutes or so, even with the stovetop at the lowest setting. I took it off the heat after 20 mins above 240 and poured it into a sanitized Mason jar. It tastes nice. What I have looks more like amber than golden, but I might try to use it in the beer anyway. The net weight is 17.6 oz.
OP
OP
The colour is pretty close to l Lyle's, if it tastes a bit caramelized or toffee like than it should be pretty close and should work well in the recipe
deere322
Former Sloper
Next time use the thinnest gauge metal pot you have.
I made invert once with a heavy cast iron enameled pot (Le Creuset sp?) and had the same problem with controlling the heat.
Now I use the thinnest pot I have, you know, the ones with the copper on the bottom. Much easier to hold and control the heat.
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OP
OP
We really want as many yeast esters from this recipe as we can get. Glucose (dextrose) enhances ester production but inverted sugar and Lyle's and table sugar only consist of about 50% glucose, the rest are other sugars, mainly fructose, which does not enhance ester production.
I wonder if it would have a detectable effect and would be an overall flavour improvement if the syrup would be made completely from glucose.
I wonder if it would have a detectable effect and would be an overall flavour improvement if the syrup would be made completely from glucose.
Actually it was the thinnest pot I have. Plain old ss saucepan, no triclad bottom, just thin metal. The problem is the lack of control of electric stovetops. Burner element runs on an on/off duty cycle--either full-blast or off. That's why professional cooks prefer gas--you can attenuate the level of heat and keep it constant. But electric is what I have. It is what it is.
deere322
Former Sloper
Makes sense.
I have gas (no pun intended). Very easy to control output.
Now that I have the syrup, a question for @Miraculix about the yeast.
I'd like to try the Imperial Pub, but plan to do a single infusion mash (BIAB). Is A09 a good candidate for single-infusion with this beer, and if so, what would be a good mash temp to shoot for? No doubt a compromise between body/head and attenuation, and I get the impression from your recipe comments that the yeast has some quirks.
If A09 isn't a good fit for what I'm doing, then maybe 1318?
I'd like to try the Imperial Pub, but plan to do a single infusion mash (BIAB). Is A09 a good candidate for single-infusion with this beer, and if so, what would be a good mash temp to shoot for? No doubt a compromise between body/head and attenuation, and I get the impression from your recipe comments that the yeast has some quirks.
If A09 isn't a good fit for what I'm doing, then maybe 1318?
OP
OP
You certainly can do a single infusion mash, if so, try to do a full volume mash and I would aim for 65c for about an hour. If it drops 2 or 3 degrees during the mash, that's fine as well.
Maybe you want to increase the wheat percentage by five to ten percent to compensate for the missing Mahout step which increases head.
You could also do just two steps, first at 65c and last at 77c, first 60 minutes and second for twenty, this is what I am intending to try next time as I had good results with this with other beers.
I would stay with pub, it's a great yeast, try to harvest some but don't keep it for too long, it doesn't survive long in a plastic bottle. A month is fine.
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Use your oven. I only use the stove top until everything is dissolved and then use the oven set at your desired temp. No fussing around with the burners. Also... if you think you are going to make more batches with invert, make a lot. It takes the same amount of time to make 5 pounds of invert as it does 1 - and it will keep in a sealed mason jar a long time (indefinitely?).
I have a 15 gal kettle, so full-volume mashing is no problem. I bumped up the torrified wheat. I might dial back the overall grain bill a little to keep the beer just under 4%.
I'm very interested to see how the pub yeast goes. Never brewed with that. In fact, never used anything other than WL and Wyeast for liquid. I like that Imperial packs 200B cells. Won't need a starter for a <1.040 beer.
OP
OP
Yep, that is the beauty about those imperial yeast packs. I also pitched directly. I used exactly two liquid yeasts up until today, Voss Kveik and Imperial PUb... oh... and WLP 800. Ok it is three. But I am really afraid to order any other english strain than pub as chances are high that I will regret not ordering pub.
My LHBS does not carry Imperial, and there is a 30-pack minimum order for them to stock it, so they don't.
Northern and Midwest usually carry Imperial, but they don't answer phones and I have no idea if they have the strain in stock at their retail stores or how old the pack is if they do. Imperial says 3 months old, max, and I don't want to mess with a starter (kind of defeats the benefit of the 200B cell count and there's that $12 premium price). All of those stores are on the other side of the metro from me and I don't want to drive there on a fool's errand.
Looks like I'll be brewing this with S-04. Hopefully, that'll be close.
Northern and Midwest usually carry Imperial, but they don't answer phones and I have no idea if they have the strain in stock at their retail stores or how old the pack is if they do. Imperial says 3 months old, max, and I don't want to mess with a starter (kind of defeats the benefit of the 200B cell count and there's that $12 premium price). All of those stores are on the other side of the metro from me and I don't want to drive there on a fool's errand.
Looks like I'll be brewing this with S-04. Hopefully, that'll be close.
OP
OP
It won't be close, I'm afraid.
But it will be a still a nice beer, I guess. If you use 04, mash higher. I would suggest 68c or even 70c.
If you can get lallemand Windsor or London ESB, use this one. If you use one of those, you can keep the mash as suggested. I'd prefer either of those to 04 ester profile-wise for this beer.
Can you control your temperature? S04 can get a bit tart if used too hot.
I'll stop in to my LHBS today and see if they have a pack of 1968, or Windsor.
I do have a ferm chamber, so I can start out low then raise the temp for a d-rest.
Went to the brew store, picked up a pack of WLP002. I'll make a starter this weekend.
OP
OP
Nice one, let us know how it turns out!
I've made plenty of stouts and porters before, but this is my first venture into English pub ales. I'm learning a lot about the nuances of yeast for these styles.
I do want to try the Imperial Pub some day, but I'll have to wait for cooler weather and order some from Morebeer. Perhaps an ESB is in my future.
I do want to try the Imperial Pub some day, but I'll have to wait for cooler weather and order some from Morebeer. Perhaps an ESB is in my future.
OP
OP
I would really like to hear how the exact same recipe compares using 002 and pub.I've made plenty of stouts and porters before, but this is my first venture into English pub ales. I'm learning a lot about the nuances of yeast for these styles.
I do want to try the Imperial Pub some day, but I'll have to wait for cooler weather and order some from Morebeer. Perhaps an ESB is in my future.
Maybe some time if I get my hands on some Pub I'll split a 10 gal batch between that and 002.
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The Fuller's strain (WLP02, pub, etc) may need to gently roused toward the end of fermentation. Check the FG and if too high, swirl it.
I have done 2 or 3 split batches with 02 and Pub, and I've always preferred the Pub for my palate. YMMV.
@MaxStout 02 flocculates like crazy. I mean like cottage cheese in a snow globe kinda crazy. If you do a starter, you can almost literally watch it floc out. Give it 5 minutes and you can see the stir plate stratification and chunks settling to the bottom.
This and WLP011 are two of the lowest attenuation yeasts out there. If you're into session or lower alcohol beers, using Fuller's will give you significantly less alcohol that say Nottingham.
I have done 2 or 3 split batches with 02 and Pub, and I've always preferred the Pub for my palate. YMMV.
@MaxStout 02 flocculates like crazy. I mean like cottage cheese in a snow globe kinda crazy. If you do a starter, you can almost literally watch it floc out. Give it 5 minutes and you can see the stir plate stratification and chunks settling to the bottom.
This and WLP011 are two of the lowest attenuation yeasts out there. If you're into session or lower alcohol beers, using Fuller's will give you significantly less alcohol that say Nottingham.
Yeah, I'm shooting for <4% ABV, so not a problem. Adding 12 oz. invert syrup to dry it out a little.
I've heard that yeast described as being like cheese curds in suspension. I'll enjoy watching it in the starter, but won't see the magic in my Brew Bucket.
OP
OP
When I was transporting a bottle conditioned 2l bottle full of this ale in my backpack to friends, I witnessed this first hand. Even when yeast went into the glas, the test flocked or directly on the glass within a few minutes, leaving clear beer.
The mash schedule is designed to make the wort as fermentable as possible, because of the low attenuation. I didn't have to rouse it, but it might help if necessary. I got about 75% attenuation out of it with the given schedule and 10% simple sugars (Lyle's).
Just bottle condition a few for fun, then watch the flocculation miracle in the glass after shaking the bottle before pouring
Just bottle condition a few for fun, then watch the flocculation miracle in the glass after shaking the bottle before pouring
I bottle-condition all of them and don't keg, so I'll rack carefully at bottling time. I don't want cheese curd beer, no matter how much fun it would be to watch.
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