Milling grains, how important?

[beerisyummy]

All-Grain Brewers! Of all the things we brewers must do to produce excellent beer, how important is it, in your opinion, to mill the grains immediately prior to mashing? Do you think it produces a perceivable flavor advantage? (I'm trying to decide whether to continue to crush my grain at the LHBS a few days before a brew session, or invest in a mill.) Thoughts appreciated!

 

[RPh_Guy]

how important is it, in your opinion, to mill the grains immediately prior to mashing?

That depends whether your process is geared toward preserving the fresh malt flavor (low oxygen brewing).

If not, then there's no worry, but it should still be used within a few weeks for best results.

 

[Stand]

There are great reasons to buy a mill, and to me the best one is repeatability. You control the gap, and you can dial in your process. If you can set the gap at your LHBS, that is not as big a concern.

The other advantage is if you buy in bulk.

I have never seen anything more than anecdotal evidence that grain needs to be milled immediately before being used. Hell, some breweries buy bags of grain pre-milled.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have never seen anything more than anecdotal evidence that grain needs to be milled immediately before being used.

It's pretty logical that oxidation begins immediately after milling. Kunze makes this pretty clear in sections 3.1.5 and 3.2.1.6.
"Malt is subject to oxygen uptake immediately after comminution."

Again, this mostly only matters if you're actively trying to preserve the fresh malt flavor by preventing oxygen exposure throughout the hot and cold side processes.

I agree there are definitely other benefits to owning a mill.

 

[day_trippr]

I agree with ^that^.

And I'll add: I condition my barley malt immediately before pouring it in my mill - within a half hour of strike.
I would not want to condition grain if it was going to sit around more than a few hours lest the lacto get all excited, and for that same reason you're not going to get crushed grain that was conditioned, so husk integrity will be sub-optimal vs DIY...

Cheers!

 

[Stand]

If you're conditioning that makes total sense.

I have basically no knowledge of LODO, so I won't speak to it.

 

[bracconiere]

i'll chime in and say go for the mill, their only like $150, and nice to have.....can't speak of quality aspects

 

[mongoose33]

I would argue that the closer you can crush the grain to when you dough-in, the better. Crushed grain is subject to oxidation of malt flavors, period. If you're aiming for the best beer you can brew, you don't want grain to be crushed and wait days or (shudder) weeks before brewing with it.

I do some of the tenets of low oxygen brewing, one of which is crushing the grain right before doughing in. You can even go further (which I usually do) by putting the crushed grain in the mash tun, running CO2 in via the ball valve and below the false bottom (to clear as much air out as possible), and then underlet (meaning fill the grain-filled mash tun from the bottom) with water I've pre-boiled and then cooled to strike temp to remove oxygen from the water.

That's way more than most will do, but we're still back to doing the best we can, and crushing the grain days or weeks before using it is not optimal.

That, btw, is not the best reason you should invest in a mill. When you invest in a mill, you control the crush, not some LHBS whose interest might be different from yours.

So, get a mill. A good mid-range mill is the Cereal Killer, which you can get for $99 including shipping. Add a decent drill to power it, and voila! You have control of your crush--plus, you can start thinking about buying grain in bulk and storing it at home. You can, with a little planning, eliminate most trips to the LHBS, plus buying grain in bulk costs less.

Get it.

The above is my 2 cents.

 

[JLeuck64]

The tipping point for me buying a grain mill was a few inconsistent batches that I contributed to a worn out grain mill that my LHBS had. I bought my own grain mill, then I realized that I could buy 4 to 5 recipes at a time and bring them home, all un-crushed. I have a supply that lasts for months. Since my LHBS is a 80-90 mile round trip it seems like a no brainer... with hind sight ( ; The savings in gas will pay for the grain mill eventually!

 

[Crafty_Brewer]

All-Grain Brewers! Of all the things we brewers must do to produce excellent beer, how important is it, in your opinion, to mill the grains immediately prior to mashing? Do you think it produces a perceivable flavor advantage? (I'm trying to decide whether to continue to crush my grain at the LHBS a few days before a brew session, or invest in a mill.) Thoughts appreciated!

I can’t speak for the low oxygen brewers, but I do not notice a flavor difference crushing right before brewing vs a week or two before (I always kept the crushed grains in an air tight container before I got a mill.

I like to have a mill because I can control my crush, but more importantly for me I can buy grain in bulk and mill a recipe’s worth whenever I have the chance to brew.

I have the cereal killer, and it works well for me. About $100 shipped from Adventures in Homebrewing.

 

[kevin58]

I have made the same beer using the same recipe from the same sack of grain where I milled one batch on the morning of brew day and another three weeks after milling the grains. There was no perceivable difference in either beer. It's not scientific but it tells me that I don't have to worry about milling immediately before brewing. If you do worry about such things and it makes you feel more comfortable doing so then by all means then that is what you do.

 

[Robert65]

I have made the same beer using the same recipe from the same sack of grain where I milled one batch on the morning of brew day and another three weeks after milling the grains. There was no perceivable difference in either beer. It's not scientific but it tells me that I don't have to worry about milling immediately before brewing. If you do worry about such things and it makes you feel more comfortable doing so then by all means then that is what you do.

What that tells you is, there are deficiencies in other aspects of your process which obfuscate the differences between freshly and pre- milled grain, and that none of your beers exhibit truly fresh flavors. If you are happy with the results, carry on.

 

[burntchef]

Buying my own mill impacted my brewing the most. Second only to my new ferment chamber. Effiecency and consistency.
Eric

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Of all the things we brewers must do to produce excellent beer, how important is it, in your opinion, to mill the grains immediately prior to mashing? Do you think it produces a perceivable flavor advantage?

I've had a mill for a number of years, so I can't speak to the topic of oxygen ingress with regard to ground malts.

For me, owning a mill gives me greater flexibility to brew what I want and when I want. I can have a reasonable supply of base malts (generally just one or two) and specialty malts on hand.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Kunze makes this pretty clear in sections 3.1.5 and 3.2.1.6.
"Malt is subject to oxygen uptake immediately after comminution."

Is Kunze the author of the book or the title of the book (asking for a friend )

 

[Robert65]

Kunze, Wolfgang. Technology Malting and Brewing, 6th English edition, VLB Berlin 2019.

THE standard textbook in brewing. (I had to pay royalties to The Ohio State University to use the definite article like that. [emoji6] )

 

[Jag75]

I get all my stuff from my LHBS (30 miles away) and he mills the grain for me. I go in and visit , we trade beers ect... I've decided not to get a mill because he mills how you want it . The other reason is because it would trend on me not needing to go there. I'd get a mill , then start ordering grain in bulk and then heck why not just get my hops and yeast online as well. Not only do I not have the room for a mill and grain I like going in and hanging out and giving him my business. I send a list of the stuff I want and when I get there it's all bagged up.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Think of it like buying coffee beans vs. ground coffee. There is a flavor reason that freshly grinding beans is better.
BUT...If you pile your coffee with cream and sugar and flavorings, you'll probably never be able to notice the difference.

So if you take care with the details of your beer and are picky about flavor nuances, you will probably notice a difference (plus consistency, which is a critical factor in good brewing).
If you're a short & shyte-y brewer that's just trying to make alcohol, it probably won't matter.

 

[Jag75]

@Cavpilot2000 - funny you mention coffee. My daughter told me when she first started working at Starbucks you have to try all the different types of coffee with nothing in it . That way you can tell customers what flavors that particular coffee has .

 

[Soulshine2]

All-Grain Brewers! Of all the things we brewers must do to produce excellent beer, how important is it, in your opinion, to mill the grains immediately prior to mashing? Do you think it produces a perceivable flavor advantage? (I'm trying to decide whether to continue to crush my grain at the LHBS a few days before a brew session, or invest in a mill.) Thoughts appreciated!

Back when I lived 15 minutes from the LHBS and didnt have a mill I had them mill it and it went in the bag for a week sealed up until I was able to brew . I've had my own mill for so long now I cant remember what the pre-milled ended up like . When you can have control of more parts of your brewing process the better. I get my water going and my rig set up . when the water gets to about 160 in the strike pot I mill my grains . I add them soon after the water is added to preheat the mash tun . Would it make a difference if I milled it a day ahead of time, maybe but it probably is so minimal of a difference I wouldnt be able to tell.
Invest in a mill , you wont regret it.

 

[Soulshine2]

I get all my stuff from my LHBS (30 miles away) and he mills the grain for me. I go in and visit , we trade beers ect... I've decided not to get a mill because he mills how you want it . The other reason is because it would trend on me not needing to go there. I'd get a mill , then start ordering grain in bulk and then heck why not just get my hops and yeast online as well. Not only do I not have the room for a mill and grain I like going in and hanging out and giving him my business. I send a list of the stuff I want and when I get there it's all bagged up.

man, I wish we had a dedicated LHBS ...the one I go to ( Brewbama put me onto it) is basically a health food shop that happens to have a brewing section in it. The young ladies that run it arent into brewing so they just buy what people ask for. It is cramped and really could stand to have its own shop in itself. I dont know if it could stand on its own though. I buy bulk online but when I get the chance and im in the area I stop and try to find something to keep them carrying brewing supplies .

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I still buy all of my ingredients through my LHBS and am friends with the manager. I buy much of my hardware online, but even my bulk grains and hops by the pound, I buy from LHBS. Then in advance of every brew day I go and buy the specialty grains, yeast, and any hops I need that aren't in my bigger bags. Plus the little things like Star San or fittings.
Best of both worlds, being lucky enough to have a good, well-stocked LHBS, but like most things, if you don't use it you lose it - hence my support of the business.
COuld I save a few bucks here and there going all online? Probably, but there is no substitute to having the resource close by, so if my few extra dollars keep that asset in business, I'm all in.

 

[Robert65]

Same here. I buy or order all my sacks of grain through LHBS (he'll happily get me any malt he doesn't normally stock,) get specialty malts and some of my pounds of hops there, yeast, and all the little day to day things -- o-rings, Star San, anything I can get there, I do. I also get CO2 tanks refilled at LHBS (he buys bulk from Airgas and refills cheaper than they do.) Some things he doesn't have and can't order for me, like major equipment or proprietary products (Duotight fittings, say) I order online. Also some hops from Hops Direct or Hop Heaven, pH maintenance solutions in bulk from Hanna, and probably things I'm forgetting. But it's not an all or nothing choice between LHBS and online. And sacks of grain I can get cheaper ordering from the distributor through LHBS even not accounting for shipping, and I'd rather pick up in store than wrestle a sack in a crate off my porch. And of course, "the use it or lose it, support your local guy" thing. I've been buying bulk and milling my own for just about forever it seems, and I still find myself hanging out at the shop practically every week. (And then there's all the stuff that pertains to my brewing that allows me to support not LHBS, but my independent, neighborhood hardware store...)

 

[kh54s10]

I got my first mill - a Corona style so that I could save money by buying in bulk. That also allowed me to brew without pre planning and either taking a trip to the LHBS which at that time was a time consuming relatively long mileage trip or ordering online and waiting.

I have since bought a Cereal Killer and have not really seen much of a difference other than it is easier to use.

I have milled the day before a couple of times, usually first thing on brew day. I never noticed any difference.

I don't go in for all the hassle involved in LODO. I might someday, but I am satisfied with my beer that is already better than at least 75% of commercial beers.

 

[lump42]

What that tells you is, there are deficiencies in other aspects of your process which obfuscate the differences between freshly and pre- milled grain, and that none of your beers exhibit truly fresh flavors. If you are happy with the results, carry on.

Are you brewing True Beer(TM)? Do you still use hops? 'Truly fresh flavors' reminded me of the cat. I'm glad you're making beer you enjoy

 

[lump42]

i'll chime in and say go for the mill, their only like $150, and nice to have.....can't speak of quality aspects

Just got an email yesterday for a $65 mill from Austin Homebrew supply with free shipping. For the cost of a imported sack of grain, you can mill your own grain.

 

[kevin58]

What that tells you is, there are deficiencies in other aspects of your process which obfuscate the differences between freshly and pre- milled grain, and that none of your beers exhibit truly fresh flavors. If you are happy with the results, carry on.

Gee thanks. My beer is crap because I didn't read the same book or brew your way. What a pretentious moke!

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Gee thanks. My beer is crap because I didn't read the same book or brew your way. What a pretentious moke!

Yeah, that was a bit of a douchey response. Ignore it and move on. Taste is so subjective, and you didn't say what kind of beer you were brewing either. I think it's going to matter a lot less on a super hoppy beer than a light lager or something that is malt driven.

 

[Robert65]

Gee thanks. My beer is crap because I didn't read the same book or brew your way. What a pretentious moke!

Yeah, that was a bit of a douchey response. Ignore it and move on. Taste is so subjective, and you didn't say what kind of beer you were brewing either. I think it's going to matter a lot less on a super hoppy beer than a light lager or something that is malt driven.

The last sentence in my post is the important part, and should imply what you bring up regarding style, @VirginiaHops1. No intention of being a ******. I'm simply stating a relevant fact. There is a definite difference in flavor in freshly milled grain, but it will not be apparent unless you are following low oxygen process throughout and limiting thermal stress in the boil, which may not be part of your process. If you are seeking super fresh flavors that are so far eluding you and have already addressed these other points, conditioned milling just before dough in can make a surprising difference. BUT if this is not of concern to you and you are getting the results you expect and desire, it will not matter and you should time and conduct your milling conduit your convenience. That's all. I thought the idea here was to bring up any and all information that might be considered in deciding when and how to mill. If something in my above reply implied otherwise I apologize.

 

[bracconiere]

lol, drunken brawling is fun...