Mead racking question

[Kenpachi Z]

How long should i age my mead in the secondary fermenting carboy before i rack it into regular corked bottles ?

 

[Dan O]

I suppose the correct answer would be as long as it takes to finish fermentation. Just because you racked it, doesn't mean you didn't get any of the yeast in secondary. Really, the best way is by taking gravity readings. If you have 3 consecutive gravity readings in a row, (usually within a 2 week span), pretty safe bet it's done fermenting. I bulk age as much as I can before bottling. If you don't stabilize, make sure your gravity is 1.000 or below....(dry), or bottle bombs could be an issue.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Dealers choice really, you can bulk age in secondary, providing you've removed most of the slurry or other bits, fruit pulp and the like. Mead will continue to age in a bottle the same way, secondary aging for me is a time to let the last particles fall out of suspension and settle to the bottom. This way it's as clear as possible, leaving those wispy bits in the bulk container rather than the bottom of your bottle. It's going to age either way, it's all about your preference, I tend to do both depending on what it's doing and once any off flavors have mellowed or gone then I'll bottle.

Hope that helps, it's all about what you are going for in this hobby, good luck.

 

[bernardsmith]

How long should i age my mead in the secondary fermenting carboy before i rack it into regular corked bottles ?

I think the answer very much depends on what you are looking for in your mead. A very bright and clear finish that is as stable as the Rock of Gibraltar and that all the chemical transformations have ended means that you want to allow your mead to age for about twice or three times longer than you imagine you want. If your mead is good it will improve as it ages and it will change as it ages over a year or longer. If the mead is just OK it won't really age but it will get older and the difference over time may not be very significant (though , VERY occasionally an ugly duckling can become transformed over a few years into a beautiful swan..). If you are uninterested in clarity or brightness and all you want is to chug your mead then when there is no more sugar for the yeast to ferment you can bottle it. However, if you prefer some more sweetness than the dry finish of your mead you may want to stabilize it and then back sweeten with a varietal honey to bring both sweetness and flavor forward.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

I suppose the correct answer would be as long as it takes to finish fermentation. Just because you racked it, doesn't mean you didn't get any of the yeast in secondary. Really, the best way is by taking gravity readings. If you have 3 consecutive gravity readings in a row, (usually within a 2 week span), pretty safe bet it's done fermenting. I bulk age as much as I can before bottling. If you don't stabilize, make sure your gravity is 1.000 or below....(dry), or bottle bombs could be an issue.

ok so im new to all this and still learning ....so exactly how do i stabilize my mead ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

How long should i age my mead in the secondary fermenting carboy before i rack it into regular corked bottles ?

Another question is do they make a book on how to read the hydrometer for idiots ? ...because this thing is confusing lol

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Annnd another question ...i keep hearing using plastic buckets to age is bad because of the plastic but does that also include the plastic lids for the widemouth glass fermenting jars to ? And which one is the best for the for the primary fermentation the wide mouth or the carboy ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

I suppose the correct answer would be as long as it takes to finish fermentation. Just because you racked it, doesn't mean you didn't get any of the yeast in secondary. Really, the best way is by taking gravity readings. If you have 3 consecutive gravity readings in a row, (usually within a 2 week span), pretty safe bet it's done fermenting. I bulk age as much as I can before bottling. If you don't stabilize, make sure your gravity is 1.000 or below....(dry), or bottle bombs could be an issue.

Your set up looks great i hope to get to that at some point to

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Kenpachi and welcome.
Here's the thing: wide mouth fermenters - in my opinion - are great for brewing beer. Beer is aged for weeks. Wine is aged for months and sometimes for years and a wide mouth means that the surface area exposed to air is perfect for oxidation... except that oxidation is the equivalent of rust and you wouldn't want to unnecessarily expose a car to rusting. If you are going to age your wine you want the smallest surface area exposed to air.

Stabilization? Most home wine makers use chemical stabilizers. That means that after you've racked (transferred) your wine or mead a few times to a sanitized carboy and each time you rack you leave behind more and more of any active yeast you simply add K-meta and K-sorbate according to instructions. The K-sorbate helps ensure that any viable yeast cannot reproduce and the K-meta tends to kill the yeast (although at the concentrations you would use the K-meta won't stop an active fermentation performed by lab cultured yeast any more than you could stop a bullet between your teeth.

Reading an hydrometer is not really very difficult. Most hydrometers have three scales. One indicates the specific gravity of the solution. The specific gravity is another way of talking about the density of a liquid (in relation to pure water) . Water is given the nominal density of 1.000 and must - the solution of fruit juice will have a density of between 1.050 and 1.100 or thereabouts. You add yeast and the yeast converts the sugar to alcohol (and carbon dioxide) and so as the yeast eats up the sugar the density of your wine drops and slowly approaches the density of water. Since alcohol is less dense than water you can expect that the final reading will be below 1.000.

A second scale based on the first will give you an estimate of the potential alcohol your solution will have BUT that scale is only useful before you add (pitch) the yeast. This is because as the yeast eats the sugar any reading you take simply measures the amount of sugar in solution there and then and ignores the earlier reading so at the point when all the sugar has been converted to alcohol (and CO2) there is no sugar left and so the POTENTIAL alcohol in solution is ZERO... The ACTUAL alcohol may be 10 or 12 or 15% alcohol by volume (or it could be 6% THAT depends on how much sugar was in solution at the start).

The third scale on most hydrometers is a metric called brix and brix is a measure of the percentage of sugar in solution. That is a traditional wine maker's metric. You want, for example, ripe wine grapes to have about 20-25% of their juice as sugar (or a brix of 20-25 ) and that would be around a specific gravity of +/- 1.090.

To read the density or gravity or brix you simply take a sample of the solution in a large measuring cylinder and you gently drop your hydrometer in. Make sure that there are no bubbles helping to suspend the hydrometer and look at the number where the liquid touches the hydrometer. THAT will be the specific gravity (or brix) of the solution. And you use an hydrometer to determine whether or not and how fast your fermentation is going. Counting bubbles in your airlock might be fun but it tells you diddly squat: no bubbles may mean that the CO2 is escaping through your bung and not the airlock and bubbles may simply mean that the air-pressure or the temperature in the room is forcing CO2 that has been locked up in the liquid to be expelled. Changes in gravity tell you that sugar is being converted.

Hope that this helps with the facts of life.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Ok so do you have any recommendations on the k meta or k sorbate ? And for the first fermenting should i use a wide moutu or carboy then ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

And how many times should i rack it ? Just every time i see the less build up at the bottom of the bottle or what ?

 

[Yooper]

And how many times should i rack it ? Just every time i see the less build up at the bottom of the bottle or what ?

I rack whenever I have lees (sediment) of 1/4" or so or more, or if there are ANY at all in 60 days. When I no longer drop any lees at all in at least 60 days in a new carboy, not even a dusting, then I bottle.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Buckets and wide mouths are best for primary and then carboys for bulk aging. I use brew buckets and primary may last a month sometimes, never had an issue. Just remember to use plastic utensils to stir/mix a plastic fermenter/bucket so you don't scratch it and cause an issue later down the road, glass is best for aging.

Racking is done when your ready to proceed to the next step or need to remove something. Primary fermentation goes 2-4 weeks usually, some recipes are an exception, the you rack off anything that has settled. Secondary fermentation or clearing, depending on your recipe, can go weeks-months. It's a time to monitor odor's or flavors as they mellow and blend or age out, when there's a good layer of lees at the bottom again or you're ready to bottle you rack again. Racking can sometimes help with clearing a haze but be careful to avoid oxidizing it.

My two cents is use a wide mouth if you have it for primary, if not a carboy is just fine. Co² will purge oxygen during primary so don't worry to much there and the wide mouth will help you stir/degas. Best of luck, keep us posted.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

I rack whenever I have lees (sediment) of 1/4" or so or more, or if there are ANY at all in 60 days. When I no longer drop any lees at all in at least 60 days in a new carboy, not even a dusting, then I bottle.

Do you stabilize before bottling ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Buckets and wide mouths are best for primary and then carboys for bulk aging. I use brew buckets and primary may last a month sometimes, never had an issue. Just remember to use plastic utensils to stir/mix a plastic fermenter/bucket so you don't scratch it and cause an issue later down the road, glass is best for aging.

Racking is done when your ready to proceed to the next step or need to remove something. Primary fermentation goes 2-4 weeks usually, some recipes are an exception, the you rack off anything that has settled. Secondary fermentation or clearing, depending on your recipe, can go weeks-months. It's a time to monitor odor's or flavors as they mellow and blend or age out, when there's a good layer of lees at the bottom again or you're ready to bottle you rack again. Racking can sometimes help with clearing a haze but be careful to avoid oxidizing it.

My two cents is use a wide mouth if you have it for primary, if not a carboy is just fine. Co² will purge oxygen during primary so don't worry to much there and the wide mouth will help you stir/degas. Best of luck, keep us posted.

I use an auto siphon is that the best to use when racking and whats the best way to not oxidize it ?

 

[Yooper]

I use an auto siphon is that the best to use when racking and whats the best way to not oxidize it ?

Careful racking, from carboy to carboy, without allowing oxygen pick up which means no splashing and to do it "quietly". Also, campden tablets (sulfites) are helpful, as the sulfite binds with the wine so that oxygen can. I use campden at every other racking and at bottling.

Do you stabilize before bottling ?

I don't use sorbate (I can taste it and don't like it), but I do use some sulfite at bottling. I don't sweeten my meads or wines, so sorbate isn't necessary.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Careful racking, from carboy to carboy, without allowing oxygen pick up which means no splashing and to do it "quietly". Also, campden tablets (sulfites) are helpful, as the sulfite binds with the wine so that oxygen can. I use campden at every other racking and at bottling.



I don't use sorbate (I can taste it and don't like it), but I do use some sulfite at bottling. I don't sweeten my meads or wines, so sorbate isn't necessary.

Thank you... both very helpful answers

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Can i ask a cleaning question to ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Careful racking, from carboy to carboy, without allowing oxygen pick up which means no splashing and to do it "quietly". Also, campden tablets (sulfites) are helpful, as the sulfite binds with the wine so that oxygen can. I use campden at every other racking and at bottling.



I don't use sorbate (I can taste it and don't like it), but I do use some sulfite at bottling. I don't sweeten my meads or wines, so sorbate isn't necessary.

So the sulfites kill the yeast ? Wouldn't that stop the ageing process ?

 

[Yooper]

So the sulfites kill the yeast ? Wouldn't that stop the ageing process ?

No, sulfites don't kill yeast- that's why winemakers use them. They are an antioxidant and antimicrobial. Plus, you should have very little (like almost none) yeast in the mead or wine when you bottle it.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

I'll second the campden every other rack, been doing this since I read Yoopers first advising of it years ago, never failed yet.

I also use an auto siphon, the cap on the bottom helps pull liquid in horizontally rather than off the bottom. Practice is all, gently placing the siphon into the mead, keeping it still and not disturbing the lees off the bottom will prevent transferring anything. As you get close to the bottom slowly tilt your fermenter and you can get most of the mead without any lees. Once you see wisps of sediment floating towards the siphon pull it out. If there's alot left yet just let it resettle an hour and you can keep going. When you think it's clear give it more time if you want to bottle, surprising how clear can keep clearing and drop more sediment.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

No, sulfites don't kill yeast- that's why winemakers use them. They are an antioxidant and antimicrobial. Plus, you should have very little (like almost none) yeast in the mead or wine when you bottle it.

So the sulfites just keep it from getting oxidized and possibly going bad ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

I'll second the campden every other rack, been doing this since I read Yoopers first advising of it years ago, never failed yet.

I also use an auto siphon, the cap on the bottom helps pull liquid in horizontally rather than off the bottom. Practice is all, gently placing the siphon into the mead, keeping it still and not disturbing the lees off the bottom will prevent transferring anything. As you get close to the bottom slowly tilt your fermenter and you can get most of the mead without any lees. Once you see wisps of sediment floating towards the siphon pull it out. If there's alot left yet just let it resettle an hour and you can keep going. When you think it's clear give it more time if you want to bottle, surprising how clear can keep clearing and drop more sediment.

?
Campden.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

No, sulfites don't kill yeast- that's why winemakers use them. They are an antioxidant and antimicrobial. Plus, you should have very little (like almost none) yeast in the mead or wine when you bottle it.

Which kind of sulfites should i use ?

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Campden tablets, the are m&m sized white tablets that are sulfites used to sanitize fruit or juice before primary fermentation, as well as an anti-oxidation agent. What Yooper was suggesting you use every other racking, fairly cheap and useful.

 

[Maylar]

Which kind of sulfites should i use ?

Potassium Metabisulfite. Typical dose is only 1/4 TSP for 5 gallons.

?
Campden.

Campden is a tablet of Potassium Metabisulfite that's easier to use for small batches. One crushed tablet per gallon.

So the sulfites just keep it from getting oxidized and possibly going bad ?

Yes. It also aids Potassium Sorbate to stop additional fermentation if you back sweeten after the mead clears. This is what we refer to as "stabilizing".

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Dang i bought the wrong sulfite lol

 

[Kyzaboy89]

What did you get by chance? Sorry if I wasn't clear, maylar got it though.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

The sodium instead of potassium

 

[Yooper]

The sodium instead of potassium

That's fine. It works exactly the same, but adds a smidgeon of sodium to the mead.

 

[bernardsmith]

Couple of points: most LHBS (local home brew stores) in the US sell potassium metbisulfite. Sodium Metabisulfite is essentially the same but I suppose for people who are on low sodium diets (high BP) then the K-meta is a better option BUT the active part is the META and not the K or the Na. The META is a sulfur product and it is the sulfur that is what we are looking for. A) the sulfur can kill less vigorous yeast cells and B) sulfur (at about 50 parts per million - or the equivalent of 1 campden tab per gallon is what inhibits oxidation.

Stabilization (using BOTH K- (or Na- ) Meta and sorbate is what you might add IF - IF you are back sweetening your wine or mead. Now, grape wines even when brut dry offer up a perception of sweetness but most country wines and mead may not AND if you are looking for a wine where the flavor of the fruit is right there (fruit forward as they say) then you may need to sweeten the wine after it has fully fermented. That might be 2 oz of sugar per gallon or 4 or even more depending on how sweet you want/need the wine to be. More: some fruit is very acidic and one way to balance the acidity is to add sweetness.
If you simply add sugar to the wine the yeast will treat that sugar in exactly the same way they treated the sugar on day -one. In other words, those yeast cells will work to ferment that sugar and your wine won't be a hair sweeter after you added the sugar though it will be more alcoholic. Stabilization prevents yeast from fermenting added sugar. BUT - and here's the thing: if you are not adding sugar there is no need to STABILIZE the wine. There is no reason to stabilize it... BUT that does not mean that you don't need to add K-meta (or Na- Meta). You add that to inhibit oxidation.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

How much would i use for a gallon ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

That's fine. It works exactly the same, but adds a smidgeon of sodium to the mead.

How much sulfite would i use for a gallon ?

 

[Kyzaboy89]

Quick check says ¼ teaspoon or 1.42 grams per 5 gallons, 0.284 grams per 1 gallon. Did the sodium sulfate come with manufacturer recommendations or no?

 

[Maylar]

Dissolve 1/4 TSP in 1-1/4 cups of water. Then you can use 1/4 cup per gallon. Or if you have them, 1 crushed Campden tablet per gallon.

 

[Kenpachi Z]

No i got the potasium campden tablets ...but ive racked from primary to secondary should i add it now or wait and add it after i rack it again ?

 

[Kenpachi Z]

Has anybody ever used those betterbottles carboys before ?

 

[Dan O]

No. I have a couple of 3 gallon FERMONSTERS , same thing really. I love them. I've had no issues with either of them. I use them for primary & racked till clear, then I bulk age in glass with airlocks.

 

[Kyzaboy89]

You can crush and add the tablets now or at next racking if you like.

 

[HVCBrewing]

I have several Better Bottles and think they work very well. Making additions during aging (Oak, fruit, spice...) it's very easy with Better Bottles. The risk of breaking is greatly reduced.

Wine is very receptive to oxidation. A half empty bottle of wine will pick up vinegar notes in a relatively short period of time (days / week). Sulfite will bind with (or consume) O2 and slow this process. Mead, is much less receptive to oxidation. A half empty bottle of mead can hang out for weeks / months without showing the effects of oxidation. That's one of the reasons Meads can age for a very long period of time and don't need much sulfite (compared to wine). The issues of adding sulfite, topping up are less of a risk with Meads.

If you aren't got to sweeten or age the mead, I wouldn't worry to much about sulfites.