Mangrove m41

[Lele]

What’s your experience with this yeast?
I want a Belgian DRY yeast with high attenuation (but not more than 90%), strong flavor and high alcohol tolerance, and I want using it for Dubbel, tripel and quadrupel. Have you ever used this yeast? What’s its flavor?

 

[Lele]

Somebody could help me?

 

[divrack]

What’s your experience with this yeast?
I want a Belgian DRY yeast with high attenuation (but not more than 90%), strong flavor and high alcohol tolerance, and I want using it for Dubbel, tripel and quadrupel. Have you ever used this yeast? What’s its flavor?

havent used it personally but used yeasts its said to be similar to. spec looks like what you are after anyway. id expect a phenolic ester forward beer with plum raisin yeast, type flavour. i always get a bit of stewed gooseberry without the sourness from this type of yeast, but its not something i hear on the descriptors.

sounds like you have the right yeast. side note, they do a good dry wit yeast, so i would expect this to be decent too.

 

[Lele]

I don't know if it works well with tripels. I know that Mangrove has another yeast for tripels, M31, but maybe its attenuation is too high for me. Does M41 work well also for tripel?

 

[divrack]

I don't know if it works well with tripels. I know that Mangrove has another yeast for tripels, M31, but maybe its attenuation is too high for me. Does M41 work well also for tripel?

i think it would be fine. im sure the breweries do all their different styles with the same yeasts anyway, and the selection by labs is probably slightly arbitrary for say golden strong ale vs tripel yeast.
the yeasts will add some unique flavour but the process and recipe will dictate the finished thing more in my opinion. perhaps you want to ramp up the temp at the end of fermentation for higher abv stuff.
some tripels and golden strong ales seem pretty much the same category. i think tripels have a fuller body with less sugar adjunct and are hoppier while golden strong is more attenuated, but i imagine this difference is due to sugar adjuncts rather than a property of the yeast.

i wouldnt worry too much, just enjoy noting how it tastes relative to expectations.

 

[Miraculix]

Just to warm this one up:

I experienced quite a tart impact when fermenting with this yeast. The tartness is not unpleasent and fits the beer, but somehow I am a bit afraid that the beer might have got infected, although optically and taste-wise nothing od is detectable, accept the pronounced tartness.

Did anybody else have the same experience with this yeast?

 

[rhys333]

I have a packet of this M41 yeast kicking around and I want to use it in something Belgiany. I'm interested to know how it worked out for other brewers...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

General thought seems to be that M41 is a repackaged Lallemand Abbaye, so that should give you some more research options.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

General thought seems to be that M41 is a repackaged Lallemand Abbaye, so that should give you some more research options.

M41 attenuation too high surely?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

M41 attenuation too high surely?

Have you measured it on the same wort under the same conditions? I wouldn't get too hung up on data provided by manufacturers as it is completely dependent on the conditions they use to measure brewing performance. You can compare different strains from the same manufacturer, but I wouldn't worry too much about a couple of percent either way. Lallemand describe Abbaye as "high" attenuation but I don't think they put a number on it anywhere? They also use the same description for Belle Saison, which is diastatic.

 

[dmtaylor]

My theory is that M41 might be Fermentis SafAle BE-256, which USED To be called "Abbaye", and that the Lallemand Abbaye is probably more akin to M29. Based on various reports of different average attenuation and flavor characteristics. However, I myself have not run side by side experiments yet to know for certain. Here is a little something I threw together, to those who haven't seen it, ever, or lately:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Have you measured it on the same wort under the same conditions? I wouldn't get too hung up on data provided by manufacturers as it is completely dependent on the conditions they use to measure brewing performance. You can compare different strains from the same manufacturer, but I wouldn't worry too much about a couple of percent either way. Lallemand describe Abbaye as "high" attenuation but I don't think they put a number on it anywhere? They also use the same description for Belle Saison, which is diastatic.

No but there seems to be a big difference. And M41 is diastaticus, Abbaye isn't, I believe. I pitched M31 yesterday, it clearly contains two different things, pale grains and dark grains. Maybe M41 does too? MJ seems to blend.

 

[rhys333]

Well, M41 worked out for me and I like it a lot. Nice Belgian character. Ferments down to around 1.001.

 

[chthon]

I have used it for a Duvel clone, and for saison. The latter because I had bought three packets of M41 (don't remember why). I am now waiting for a dark, light beer (5,5%) brewed with it to ferment out, and I am preparing again to use it for a saison, a tripel and a dubbel.

Definitely not a repackaged other abbey yeast. I brewed with BE-256, Lallemand Abbaye and Bulldog Trapix, but all of these stay in the 80% (even if 89%) attenuation.

 

[rhys333]

I have used it for a Duvel clone, and for saison. The latter because I had bought three packets of M41 (don't remember why). I am now waiting for a dark, light beer (5,5%) brewed with it to ferment out, and I am preparing again to use it for a saison, a tripel and a dubbel.

Definitely not a repackaged other abbey yeast. I brewed with BE-256, Lallemand Abbaye and Bulldog Trapix, but all of these stay in the 80% (even if 89%) attenuation.

I've been using BE-134 for my saisons and I love it. It's the closest I've come to achieving that citrus/spice character I'm going for. I suppose it's the friends-with-benefits version Belgian saison yeast. No stall, no maintenance.

 

[dmtaylor]

I have used it for a Duvel clone, and for saison. The latter because I had bought three packets of M41 (don't remember why). I am now waiting for a dark, light beer (5,5%) brewed with it to ferment out, and I am preparing again to use it for a saison, a tripel and a dubbel.

Definitely not a repackaged other abbey yeast. I brewed with BE-256, Lallemand Abbaye and Bulldog Trapix, but all of these stay in the 80% (even if 89%) attenuation.

I've been using BE-134 for my saisons and I love it. It's the closest I've come to achieving that citrus/spice character I'm going for. I suppose it's the friends-with-benefits version Belgian saison yeast. No stall, no maintenance.

Yep, I'm pretty sure now (have been for a few months) that M41 = BE-134.

 

[rhys333]

Yep, I'm pretty sure now (have been for a few months) that M41 = BE-134.

I think I caused some confusion by drifting to another topic, Dave. You were talking BE-256 and then I chimed in with BE-134 Belgian Saison. Was it M41 = 256?

 

[chthon]

No, M41 is not the same as BE-256.

These are my figures on fermentation with both:

​	​	Data​	​	​	​	​
Gist​	Recipe​	Average - AA​	Count - AA​	Min - AA​	Max - AA​	StDev - AA​
M41 Belgian Ale​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	Abbey Saison II​	93%​	1​	93%​	93%​	%​
​	Blinde Hendrik IX​	88%​	1​	88%​	88%​	%​
​	Blinde Hendrik V​	92%​	1​	92%​	92%​	%​
​	Duvel​	93%​	1​	93%​	93%​	%​
​	HTH​	93%​	1​	93%​	93%​	%​
​	M41 Dubbel​	​	​	​	​	​
BE-256​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	Blinde Hendrik I​	88%​	1​	88%​	88%​	%​
​	Blinde Hendrik II​	87%​	1​	87%​	87%​	%​
​	Blinde Hendrik IV​	82%​	1​	82%​	82%​	%​
​	Blinde Hendrik VI​	89%​	1​	89%​	89%​	%​
​	Dubbel Porter​	80%​	1​	80%​	80%​	%​
​	Kruidige Tripel​	83%​	1​	83%​	83%​	%​
​	Vienna Tripel​	87%​	1​	87%​	87%​	%​

For the same kinds of beer, I do not get over 90% with the BE-256, while I consistently get over 90% with the M41 (never mind the Blinde Hendrik IX, that one is still fermenting, so I don't have an idea yet of the FG).

Also, the BE-256 seems a cleaner strain than the M41, w.r.t. esters, odors and flavor.

 

[chthon]

By the way, here is a picture of my fermenting brew with M41. The kettle is 2/3 full with wort (appr. 11 litre), and this is a kettle of 17l. Seems I got 3 to 4 l of kraüsen.

 

[dmtaylor]

I think I caused some confusion by drifting to another topic, Dave. You were talking BE-256 and then I chimed in with BE-134 Belgian Saison. Was it M41 = 256?

BE-256 was my old theory on M41. It was wrong. Now I think M41 = BE-134.

 

[rhys333]

BE-256 was my old theory on M41. It was wrong. Now I think M41 = BE-134.

Interesting. I get similar attenuation from both but different yeast character. M41 come across as classically Belgian. The BE-134 is spice and citrus for me.

 

[Miraculix]

I think I really need to brew with 134.

 

[rhys333]

I think I really need to brew with 134.

I brewed a BE-134 saison not long ago, using jaggery for the sugar component. Blew my socks off.

 

[Sipina]

I brewed a BE-134 saison not long ago, using jaggery for the sugar component. Blew my socks off.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on the aroma/flavor profile it imparted to the beer?

 

[rhys333]

Interesting. Can you elaborate on the aroma/flavor profile it imparted to the beer?

Sure thing. I included some tasting notes in my Brewer's Friend page:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1307397/jaggery-saison

 

[rhys333]

Interesting. Can you elaborate on the aroma/flavor profile it imparted to the beer?

It gives the beer a subtle flavor and aroma that's honeylike in some ways, but also unique... and bone dry. The key is getting hold of a good quality jaggery.