Man, I love Apfelwein

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My primary is now bubbling nicely. :)

I was wondering what can be done to back sweeten the cider. I am sure my SWMBO will like it better if it has some sweetener. My friend-brewer suguested that I drop in something to kill the yeast and then use a can of concentrate per two gallons. Would a cranberry concentrate carry over the flavor? Has anyone tried this or something close to it? I would really like to get some cranberry or cherry flavor in the brew.
 
I'm still fermenting my first batch 4 and a half weeks in and I can't say I've smelt anything bad. I use vodka in the airlock and I think thats possibly the reason it doesn't have that smell. Does anyone else have the same experience??
 
For those of you who want to skip the rhino fart portion of the fermentation process, I would add 2.5 teaspoons of yeast nutrients or yeast energizer.

If you have a choice over the two take the energizer over the nutrients. Both work. The energizer has yeast hulls. The makers of Red Star (Montrachet) recomend energizer to keep SO2 at bay.

DON'T Over do it though. I added 2oz on my first batch and it had a very subtle ammonia smell. It disapated after 2 months in the bottle.


Edwort. - Last month I served my 9 month old Apfelwein to the BIL wine-snobs.... They loved it and consequently drank several.

Its a good idea if you bottle to keep the pipe line full so you can drink well aged AW.

This stuff really ages well and it gets more appley with time. :mug:
 
doubleb said:
I'm still fermenting my first batch 4 and a half weeks in and I can't say I've smelt anything bad. I use vodka in the airlock and I think thats possibly the reason it doesn't have that smell. Does anyone else have the same experience??
I use vodka too, and I certainly wouldn't describe the smell as "bad." Not my favorite scent, but it's foodlike and not bothersome. It kind of reminds me of cinnamon rolls rising...very sweet, and very yeasty.
 
I use vodka exclusively in my airlocks and I had decently strong sulfur smells. Lasted for me about 12-18 hours. My wife didn't mind because I warned her first.

I'm picking up keg #2 do I can re-claim a fermentor and continue to age this beast.
 
Grrr...with all the buzz around this Apfelwein I'm excited to try it out....but I can't find Montrachet yeast anywhere around here! Buying online just for that would be ridiculous considering shipping.

:(
 
Ok fellas debugging time:

My Apfelwein has been in-carboy for 3 weeks now, so I thought I'd give it a gravity reading just to be sure all was well. I never really did see more than a few bubbles coming from the airlock, but there's a good layer of sediment on the bottom so I wasn't too worried. Plus the Cotes yeast is supposed to go slow, right (nutrients added)?

But the gravity was nearly at where I had originally measured it; 1.055 (down from ~1.06)! Then I thought it may have just been a layering effect, so I gave it a good swirl, gave the trub a chance to settle back down (there was some CO2 release), and took another reading. Still 1.055!

The taste from the sample was still very apply and sweet, with a hint of acid and maybe a tad sour. Did I get an infection? More importantly, is it still salvageable?

Thanks in advance!
 
RadicalEd said:
Ok fellas debugging time

What temp are you fermenting? Do you see any action on the top layer of the juice? You said layer of trub at the bottom, how much? Is it a very thin lining or a good half inch to inch or so? How much yeast did you pitch? How old was the packet? Sounds like you have a bad fermentation startup. There's some action going on in there but not much. Since you were able to taste it without gagging or thinking the liquid should be on fries or a salad it doesn't sound like an infection. I would just pitch another packet or two of yeast.

andyp said:
Grrr...with all the buzz around this Apfelwein I'm excited to try it out....but I can't find Montrachet yeast anywhere around here!

Don't let that stop you one bit! Just pitch another type of yeast!! Either use another wine yeast or what the hey give some ale yeast a try and see how it tastes! Apfelwein is too good to let something like that stop you! :)

My apfelwein supply is very low. Luckily apple season is in full swing here. mmmmm fresh juice from the orchards!!
 
Drop in 2.5 teaspoons of yeast energizer and rock the carboy a bit.

I had this happen on last batch and it blasted off after a slight rocking. Literally it was like dropping in two alka-selters. In a few seconds it had a massive release of CO2. From that point on it bubbled once per second for at least 2 weeks.

What's the temp? Its got to be over 55F

I'd get a another pack of Cotes and re-pitch if does nothing.
 
First off, thanks for the responses, gents!

I think that I can fairly safely say that the temp isn't the problem (or at least a low temp); my ambients have been consistently above 60 in my closet, averaging closer to 75*f. My fermometer has been reading mostly in the high 70's, but the other week it was off the chart!

The Cotes yeast I used was a full packet, prepared per the instructions on it. It was kept in a very chilly walk-in fridge at my LHBS, I don't know it's age :(.

The trub on the bottom is a darkish brown, and fills the curve at the bottom of the better bottle. I''d tag it at maybe .75".

Schlenkerla: I added a good amount of yeast nutrients when I pitched; I think a heaping plastic tablespoon's worth. Should I still add more, or is it not worth trying? IIRC too much leads to some potent off flavors. If not I'll grab a couple of packets of yeast and re-pitch.
 
RadicalEd said:
First off, thanks for the responses, gents!

Schlenkerla: I added a good amount of yeast nutrients when I pitched; I think a heaping plastic tablespoon's worth. Should I still add more, or is it not worth trying? IIRC too much leads to some potent off flavors. If not I'll grab a couple of packets of yeast and re-pitch.

The suggestion on the bottle that I have says 1/2tsp per gal. I used up to 2 oz. before. (The whole JD Carlson Bottle) I did so on my first batch. It had a subtle off-flavor, but only for about a month. At 9 months its awesome.

I would say that you can get 3-4 batches out of two ounces of nutrients at the rate of 2.5tsp. That being said if you add another 2.5tsp I don't think it would negatively effect the flavor. I would try it out. It you don't see any activity within a few minutes pitch the yeast dry into the carboy and let it do its thing.

I'd get Cotes if you can or Montrachet. However Pasteurs and Premier Cuvee are good for kick starting a stuck ferment. See the link below...

http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/wineyeast/products.html

If it was mine. I'd have a pack of yeast ready (dry and in the pack). Pitch in some energizer and aggitate. Reattach the airlock wait 5 minutes. If nothing. Pitch the spare pack of yeast dry straight from the package. Then wait 24 hours. It its good yeast you should see positive pressure in the airlock. If your sanitation was good you'll be ok if you don't labor over having it open during that time.

Inspect the carboy with a good bright flashlight looking for activity while you wait.
Good Luck - :mug:
 
Our neighbor has an apple orchard ... no spray etc.

50 cents a pound ... dozens of trees...

So, how many pounds do I need for this awesome beverage ?
 
kappclark said:
Our neighbor has an apple orchard ... no spray etc.

50 cents a pound ... dozens of trees...

So, how many pounds do I need for this awesome beverage ?

On average, if you are using a normal press, you'll get about 1 gallon per 15 pounds. 5 gallons = 75 pounds (depending on the variety of apple, etc.). Most of us are just using juice from the store, or fresh pressed apple cider though.
 
WOW - OK then - I think I will go with the already pressed cider...or even the sunny D

Just curious - does the cider need to be unfilteres/unpasturized ? Can't imagine the Sunny D stuff is as "pure"
 
Schlenkerla said:
The suggestion on the bottle that I have says 1/2tsp per gal. I used up to 2 oz. before. (The whole JD Carlson Bottle) I did so on my first batch. It had a subtle off-flavor, but only for about a month. At 9 months its awesome.

I would say that you can get 3-4 batches out of two ounces of nutrients at the rate of 2.5tsp. That being said if you add another 2.5tsp I don't think it would negatively effect the flavor. I would try it out. It you don't see any activity within a few minutes pitch the yeast dry into the carboy and let it do its thing.

I'd get Cotes if you can or Montrachet. However Pasteurs and Premier Cuvee are good for kick starting a stuck ferment. See the link below...

http://www.lesaffreyeastcorp.com/wineyeast/products.html

If it was mine. I'd have a pack of yeast ready (dry and in the pack). Pitch in some energizer and aggitate. Reattach the airlock wait 5 minutes. If nothing. Pitch the spare pack of yeast dry straight from the package. Then wait 24 hours. It its good yeast you should see positive pressure in the airlock. If your sanitation was good you'll be ok if you don't labor over having it open during that time.

Inspect the carboy with a good bright flashlight looking for activity while you wait.
Good Luck - :mug:

Reporting back-
I aded some more nutrients and agitated, got more fizzing to happen, so I thought I was home free. Wrong! Checked again this morning and the slight temperature drop overnight actually sucked the bubbler all the way back down, so that there's a negative pressure. It only got down to the high 60's in there, so it was still plenty warm to ferment and produce gas. Therefore, I deduce that no fermentation was taking place, just the release of some stored gas :(.

I'll try to get over to my LHBS today; they carry Montrachet, Cotes, and a few Lavlin wine yeasts, iirc. Unless you can recommend a better variety of Lavlin, I'll pick up a couple Monty and Cotes, for this batch and future ones.

It kills me that my one gallon batch with Monty seems to be doing rather well; I'd take a reading too, but the neck is too narrow for my thief or for me to get my hydrometer out.

Thanks again for your input; I'll let you know how it goes!
 
I think I am slowly running into a problem. When i first added the yeast on the 18th there was no activity, and within 24 hours the airlock was bubbling 3 times a minute. However as the days go by the activity is dropping significantly on a daily basis. Today (the 22nd) it is bubbling once every two seconds or so (maybe a tad faster).

I followed recipe to the letter except for a substitution of brown sugar for the dextrose and a cup of sucrose to kick up the potential ABV to 8.5%. I also used 5 tsp of yeast nutrient (per the directions on the bottle).

Also it is stored in the furnace room, I live in an apartment with limited space. But the temperature is a pretty constant 70-80 degrees.

Is the activity slow down a problem or is it part of the natural process? It seems that in a week or so it will not be bubbling at all. This is only my second brew (first with my own equipment) so I really don't know what to expect.

Thanks,
Ken
 
Nargulyte. it seems like that is normal. Mines been going for a while, and despite Ed's general warnings, I didn't get a second batch going right away; I'm not exactly sure what rate mine was bubbling at, but that seems close. If you used a glass carboy or Better Bottle, you'll still see small bubbles run up the side for a while. Even that will stop after a time, but the yeast are still working their magic. :)

Good luck.
 
Well I apologize to my LHBS; not only do they have a grain mill hidden away in a corner, but they have both the Pasteur & Cuvee as well. Needless to say, I now have about 10 packets of yeast in my fridge :D. Plus a few date challenged liquids for 1/2 price :D. I envision a 3 x 1 gallon experiment between yeast in the near future.

I'll pitch in a packet of Pasteur in a moment.
 
Kevin Dean said:
Nargulyte. it seems like that is normal. Mines been going for a while, and despite Ed's general warnings, I didn't get a second batch going right away; I'm not exactly sure what rate mine was bubbling at, but that seems close. If you used a glass carboy or Better Bottle, you'll still see small bubbles run up the side for a while. Even that will stop after a time, but the yeast are still working their magic. :)

Good luck.

Yeah, the rapid slowdown caught me by surprise. My lack of experience makes me wary. :eek: It was interesting, however, to see the differences in some fermentations. My brewer buddy said that he had some cider that was done in two weeks (using practically the same recipe). I suppose I will take a SG reading then and decide what to do.

Dumb Question: Did the yeast nutrient speed up fermentation or just keep the rhino farts at bay?

Thanks
 
Just primed and bottled my first batch today. I left it sitting in the carboy for 2 months even though the fermentation was doe within 2-3 weeks like most of you are saying.

I didn't start another batch, despite Edwort's warnings. I kind of want to judge my friends response once it is carbed up. I am very selfish with the beer I brew, but I figure something as cheap and easy as this, there is enough to go around.
 
Final Question, I swear.

After a few days. My airlock was down to a bubble every 15 seconds or so. So i checked the Specific Gravity and found that it was fairly close to 1.000. Not higher then 1.002. The starting Specific Gravity was ~1.064 on the 18th. This means the whole thing fermented in 5 days! :confused:

I used 4.5 teaspoons nutrient and Red Star Montrachet yeast. I was very careful with sanitation too. Plus it is all new equipment.

The fermenter was in a fairly warm spot ~75F and when I opened up my ail pail the mixture was cloudy.

Did i get an infection? I am really new at this so I don't know. Or should I just be quiet and wait it out. ;)

Thanks,
Narg
 
Thought I'd report back; I pitched in the Pasteur yeast and I've been getting bubbles at a rate between once every 20 seconds and 1/min, depending on ambient temp. Using a flashlight, I can see a few occasional small bubbles rising up to the surface. Better than the near-nothing I had before, but hardly praiseworthy. Any other tips or sparks of genius concerning waking this slumbering beast up that you may have are welcome. :D But thanks for helping me get it at least this far back on track.
 
RadicalEd said:
Thought I'd report back; I pitched in the Pasteur yeast and I've been getting bubbles at a rate between once every 20 seconds and 1/min, depending on ambient temp. Using a flashlight, I can see a few occasional small bubbles rising up to the surface. Better than the near-nothing I had before, but hardly praiseworthy. Any other tips or sparks of genius concerning waking this slumbering beast up that you may have are welcome. :D But thanks for helping me get it at least this far back on track.

Just give it time. I've never used anything but Montrachet yeast and while it can take a day to get going depending on temp, once it gets going, I have to add vodka to the airlock by day 3 from all the vigorous action. You probably will get the same.
 
Hey Ed, what is the difference in Apfelwein and Apfelwoi? Their was an Article in my German text book than mentions Apfelwoi, but only says it is an Apple wine. Or is this just a Brand of Apfelwein?
 
Ok then, my first dip into brewing Apfelwein...

Actually, only my second brew ever (still working on a kit in the primary).

Despite everyone's warnings, I decided to take it easy to start. Made 2 X 1 gallon jugs, with a bit left over, based on EdWort's recipe:

8L Allen's AJ
400g Dextrose
1/2 sachet of EC-1118 (couldn't find Montrachet anywhere!)

Poured half into one gallon jug, half into another. In the second I added ~250ml of water + 1tsp Saigon Cinnamon, that I pre-boiled for 5 min and cooled to RT. Gave 'em a bit of a shake.

OG: 1.059

To the extra bit I boiled up some extra sugar, cooled and added it to the mix. Now I have an unknown amount in the third jug, but the OG in it was 1.070 exactly. That one is just for fun. Had some ginger on hand, should have added it to the boiled sugar but forgot until now.

Thanks for the encouragement...now the wait. What pushed me over to start was that the juice was on sale for ~$0.56/L (about $2.15 / gallon)! Thanks Ed and everyone!
 
Reporting back, part dos:

Bad news! I just checked my 1 gallon jug fermenting with Monty, and it hasn't fermented at all! It's riding high at 1.065, same as it started.

Worst of all, there was a slight but definite vinegary taste to it...And I was positive on the sanitation for that one! I remember being concerned because it seemed like have the jug was StarSan bubbles. :(

I'll go ahead and re-agitate it, mix in some nutrients, and cross my fingers, but I'm really not too hopeful at this point :(. And I was really hoping to get a taste of that Apfelwein goodness I've heard so much about... At this point I'm starting to suspect that the cider itself was infected and/or otherwise unsuitable for fermentation; it was not listed as pasteurized and was pure, so that's the only plausible thing I can think of. A slow fermentation is one thing. No fermentation is entirely something else.
 
Hey there-
I recently did an apfelwein (more like a cider) using Nottingham. Can anyone comment on how long to ferment this? I'm doing this at ~65F. I added 2 lbs of dark brown sugar to the recipe instead of dextrose...I imagine the Nottingham will ferment quicker than the Montrachet, right?
 
cant comment directly on the nottinghams, but I did do a ale yeast batch. Mine used a Bavarian weizen yeast. I let mine sit for a good month and a half before I bottled it. Its good. I don't know if I'd brag that much about it though.
 
I just checked my gravity last night (been fermenting for exactly 4 weeks) and it is @ 1.010. I still have bubbles rising up the side of my carboy and the airlock is bubbling once every 20 seconds or so. I used EdWort's original recipe and was wondering how much longer it will be. I was hoping to have this ready for SWMBO birthday on Halloween. It had a ton of carbonation in it (I shook it flat before taking SG, and it tasted pretty good as it was. Thanks.
 
david_the_greek said:
cant comment directly on the nottinghams, but I did do a ale yeast batch. Mine used a Bavarian weizen yeast. I let mine sit for a good month and a half before I bottled it. Its good. I don't know if I'd brag that much about it though.

Thanks for the info. Common sense would say that I should treat it like a very high gravity beer and leave in the primary for around 3 weeks...but I don't want to leave it much longer because I know Ale yeasts act differently from Montrachet wine yeasts....
 
Hi

I just started fermenting my 2nd 15 Gal batch that i have "on order" from our German friends.

I make it without adding sweetness or sugar for extra alcohol. I just ferment plain applejuice using T-58 dried yeast.

My frind claim it tastes like the real Hessicher Äppelwoi, and he served it to som of their friends from Hessen. They could not beleive it was appeljuice fermented with beer yeast, they thought it was he real thing.
 
I started a 2nd batch of apfelwein but decided to tweak the recipe with 2 lbs. of dark brown sugar instead of dextrose as well as some cinnamon, allspice, and cloves. If anyone decides to try this in a 5 gallon carboy you may want to affix a blowoff tube. I woke up this morning to my airlock being the color of orange juice and bubbles poking out the top. :eek:
 
The wife of one of my co-workers is from Germany, I gave them a six pack to see if she'd had anything similar back home. They both loved it and now I'm getting requests for apfelwein from most of my office. I think I'm going to have everyone kick in $5, and start collecting beer bottles and I'll make a couple batches for them.
 
I finally tasted mine last night.

I didn't really like it. It smells good, but it doesn't that great.

I think I will stick to beer from now on.
 
Mutilated1 said:
I finally tasted mine last night.

I didn't really like it. It smells good, but it doesn't that great.

I think I will stick to beer from now on.

don't toss it. keep it around and stick it in the back closet for awhile. it get's way better with age.
 
Mutilated1 said:
I finally tasted mine last night.

I didn't really like it. It smells good, but it doesn't that great.

I think I will stick to beer from now on.

It's an aquired taste for those not used to a dry beverage. Back sweetening it will help. Aging helps a lot! And don't forget the 3 glass rule. That helps the best. :D
 
I'm going to try this myself once my yeast arrives. One thing I haven't come across is any reference to juice type. Up here, the best choices for juice are by apple type - Granny Smith, McIntosh, etc.. It isn't really marketed much as plain apple juice (other than no name stuff in scary cans), it goes by the type of apple. Has anybody made this before using a particular type of juice, tart, sweet, etc..?
 
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