CreamyGoodness
Well-Known Member
Its really tart and lemony, which I like, but it continues to get moreso over time. I think we are going to see how it works in lieu of the "splash of mirin" one recipe calls for.
Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different
- Thread starter sonofgrok
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Ok, Here's the 1 week update on the homemade RYR experiment. As a reminder, the batches are in order from left to right.
1. 3 tbs crushed RYR + 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball (control)
2. 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball (control #2)
3. 3 tbs crushed home dried RYR
4. 3 tbs crushed home dried RYR + 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball
5. 3 tbs refrigerated RYR starch mass
6. 3 tbs crushed RYR + 1/3 oz crushed rice yeast ball + nutrient
7. 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball + nutrient
Batches one and five appear to be under performing relative the the rest of the batches. It is unclear to me why batch one is having difficulties. In batch five there are two probable explanations. One, a decrease in the viability of the relevant organisms from storage of the starch mass in the fridge. Two, an under pitching of the same organisms owing to the water content of the starch mass.
Batches two, three, four, and seven all appear to be at about the same point. I'm considering that as essentially a baseline at this point.
Batch six is showing superior conversion at this point. I find it probable that the yeast nutrient has been useful to the monascus purpureas. Batch seven is a straight yeast ball batch with nutrient, and is showing essentially identical results to the batch with no nutrient. That would lead me to believe that the yeast nutrient is not useful to the organisms in the rice yeast balls, but only to the monascus purpureas.
Since we have average performances from both of the batches containing homemade RYR, I believe the efficacy of drying your own RYR now has some good evidence behind it. Furthermore, the addition of the rice yeast ball to the homemade RYR does not appear to have had a significant effect on it's performance. Therefore, I believe the other organisms responsible for saccharifying the starch have also survived the drying process.
It's still to early in the process to draw any firm conclusions, but the data is certainly suggestive.
Happy Brewing!
1. 3 tbs crushed RYR + 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball (control)
2. 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball (control #2)
3. 3 tbs crushed home dried RYR
4. 3 tbs crushed home dried RYR + 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball
5. 3 tbs refrigerated RYR starch mass
6. 3 tbs crushed RYR + 1/3 oz crushed rice yeast ball + nutrient
7. 1/3 oz crushed yeast ball + nutrient
Batches one and five appear to be under performing relative the the rest of the batches. It is unclear to me why batch one is having difficulties. In batch five there are two probable explanations. One, a decrease in the viability of the relevant organisms from storage of the starch mass in the fridge. Two, an under pitching of the same organisms owing to the water content of the starch mass.
Batches two, three, four, and seven all appear to be at about the same point. I'm considering that as essentially a baseline at this point.
Batch six is showing superior conversion at this point. I find it probable that the yeast nutrient has been useful to the monascus purpureas. Batch seven is a straight yeast ball batch with nutrient, and is showing essentially identical results to the batch with no nutrient. That would lead me to believe that the yeast nutrient is not useful to the organisms in the rice yeast balls, but only to the monascus purpureas.
Since we have average performances from both of the batches containing homemade RYR, I believe the efficacy of drying your own RYR now has some good evidence behind it. Furthermore, the addition of the rice yeast ball to the homemade RYR does not appear to have had a significant effect on it's performance. Therefore, I believe the other organisms responsible for saccharifying the starch have also survived the drying process.
It's still to early in the process to draw any firm conclusions, but the data is certainly suggestive.
Happy Brewing!
(snip)
Since we have average performances from both of the batches containing homemade RYR, I believe the efficacy of drying your own RYR now has some good evidence behind it. Furthermore, the addition of the rice yeast ball to the homemade RYR does not appear to have had a significant effect on it's performance. Therefore, I believe the other organisms responsible for saccharifying the starch have also survived the drying process.
It's still to early in the process to draw any firm conclusions, but the data is certainly suggestive.
Happy Brewing!
Interesting. Might have to save 1/4 cup of RYR from my last bag to use for making my own RYR.
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
I left my first batch to ferment way too long, and it came out pretty sour with a noticeable acetic acid flavor. Makes it a little rough to drink straight up. I did however use some of it in a ginger-teryaki sauce for a stir fry last week, and it was delicious.
CreamyGoodness
Well-Known Member
I would still characterize mine as "pleasant"... doesnt really have acetic flavor you are refering to (unless my palate is shot). Good to know that yours went a bit off and you were able to use it in something... logically I would think that mine might be that much better in a recipe since it didnt go that far off.
I harvested 2.5 gal from my 10 lb dry batch out a 6 gal bucket. This is the one with the manifold in the bottom as in the pic. It drained really good and all the lyquid collected was almost clear with a slight yellow tint. Even after cold crashing there is no sediment in the jugs. It is not as sweet as the previous smaller batches and it has more of a alcohol bite. Seems to have converted much better. I left the rest of the rice with the white mold krausen in the bucket hoping it will produce more lyquifying goodness.
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I had posted a day or so ago about a great batch I made with arborio rice. I know other rices have not been successful, but I was amazed how this one came out. I know there has been some experiments with other rices in previous pages, but did anybody have or try arborio before? Wondering if i stumbled on something or if it was a fluke that it tastes like vanilla & walnuts.
I caught that post and I was intrigued. I will be trying it with the smaller balls for my next batch to see what I get. I'll let you know.
I ran an experiment with 6 different grains, but arborio rice was not one of them.
Looks like another batch with arborio is needed. I was reading about arborio and apparently it is in the same family as the Japanese sticky rice. Guess it makes sense that it would make good wine.
Tory-
New Member
I came looking for a rice wine recipe to make vinegar. I don't have much finished product under my belt but I've read a lot about optimum conditions.-
Acetobacter need air so use cheese cloth to cover, a jar is better than a bottle. UV light is bad so keep it in the dark. Temps between 65 and 80, but best with an even temp. Alcohol should be 10% or less, dilute with water as necessary. The container should remain un-disturbed to encourage a "mother" to form, mycoderma aceti, a cellulose and acetic bacteria .. Blob. (Sometimes described as one of the ugliest things on earth.)
You can also inoculate your wine with an un pasteurized vinegar like Bragg's raw apple cider vinegar - a little or a lot. I've had quick success with a 1:1 Bragg's to red wine, 2 wks and there was no hint of alcohol and it tastes like really good red wine vinegar not apple cider vinegar.
Alternately you can buy a vinegar mother and greatly improve your odds of success. Look online or ask at your local brew supply shop.
And one link, he has some useful tips and if you follow the track backs at the bottom he describes a remedy for acetone smelling vinegar.
http://www.kayahara.ca/2011/01/homemade-wine-vinegar-take-2/
Another thank you to all for the thread I read the whole thing! I've never brewed anything but now I know some of the lingo
Huh, I may try making vinegar again. I left a half full mason jar in the back of my closest for a few months with a paper towel under the ring and no flat. When I went to check on it, all of the liquid had evaporated. That left me with a dark solid mass in the bottom of the jar. Hmm, not exactly what I was aiming for.
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
A few weeks ago I started a batch to compare the 3 yeast balls I've found locally. I used a Thai sweet/sticky/glutinous rice (CTF brand), rinsed well for 10 min and cooked at a 1:1 rice to water ratio. I powdered the yeast balls in my coffee grinder, and used a ratio of one 10g yeast ball per 4 rice cooker cups of rice (3 US cups), layering the rice and yeast alternately in the jars.
The two on the left are both Vietnamese, and look and smell nearly identical. The one on the far left has ginger, Chinese licorice, and garlic in the ingredient list, and instructions in Vietnamese for making the sweet rice pudding that only ferments a couple days. The other Vietnamese one in the middle doesn't have an ingredient list, and has instructions in Vietnamese that appear to be for making sweet rice wine. After this experiment I'm convinced they're essentially the same product with different packaging. The one on the right appears to be Chinese, and the balls are slightly smaller and denser/harder.
All three jars were put on shelf in my closet, which is protected from light at stays at a constant 75-78°. Both of the Vietnamese ones had liquid near the top of the rice within 48 hours, and the rice was floating on liquid within 72 hours. They never developed any visible mold on top of the rice. They produced a very pungent fruity and alcoholic aroma throughout fermentation. The batch with the Chinese rice seemed to work about half as fast, and developed a light covering of mold on top after about a week, mostly white with a few black specks. The aroma was more earthy and subdued than the Vietnamese, and seemed to get stronger as it aged.
After bottling them up, all three look pretty much identical. The two made with the Vietnamese yeast balls have identical flavor and mouthfeel. Both are intensely fruity, tart, and have a strong alcohol finish. The flavor is hard to describe, but it's a little overwhelming in it's intensity. They also both have a thick syrupy mouthfeel, even the clear portion that separates after cold crashing. The batch with the Chinese yeast has a slightly thinner mouthfeel, and has similar flavors, but less intense, and a little more earthy. I prefer the flavor of the wine made with the Chinese yeast balls, but I think the stuff made with the Vietnamese yeast mixes better with most fruit juices.
Next up I plan on trying out some RYR, and maybe doing another comparison batch with jasmine rice instead of the sticky rice. I'd also like to try out some different yeast balls if I can find them.
The two on the left are both Vietnamese, and look and smell nearly identical. The one on the far left has ginger, Chinese licorice, and garlic in the ingredient list, and instructions in Vietnamese for making the sweet rice pudding that only ferments a couple days. The other Vietnamese one in the middle doesn't have an ingredient list, and has instructions in Vietnamese that appear to be for making sweet rice wine. After this experiment I'm convinced they're essentially the same product with different packaging. The one on the right appears to be Chinese, and the balls are slightly smaller and denser/harder.
All three jars were put on shelf in my closet, which is protected from light at stays at a constant 75-78°. Both of the Vietnamese ones had liquid near the top of the rice within 48 hours, and the rice was floating on liquid within 72 hours. They never developed any visible mold on top of the rice. They produced a very pungent fruity and alcoholic aroma throughout fermentation. The batch with the Chinese rice seemed to work about half as fast, and developed a light covering of mold on top after about a week, mostly white with a few black specks. The aroma was more earthy and subdued than the Vietnamese, and seemed to get stronger as it aged.
After bottling them up, all three look pretty much identical. The two made with the Vietnamese yeast balls have identical flavor and mouthfeel. Both are intensely fruity, tart, and have a strong alcohol finish. The flavor is hard to describe, but it's a little overwhelming in it's intensity. They also both have a thick syrupy mouthfeel, even the clear portion that separates after cold crashing. The batch with the Chinese yeast has a slightly thinner mouthfeel, and has similar flavors, but less intense, and a little more earthy. I prefer the flavor of the wine made with the Chinese yeast balls, but I think the stuff made with the Vietnamese yeast mixes better with most fruit juices.
Next up I plan on trying out some RYR, and maybe doing another comparison batch with jasmine rice instead of the sticky rice. I'd also like to try out some different yeast balls if I can find them.
aiptasia
Well-Known Member
Juan, the yeast balls on the far right look very similar to the brand i've used on my batches so far. I've been very happy with the results and flavor on my two early harvest (one week old) batches on them so far. I'm squeezing the lees on a three week old batch today and i'll let you know what the extra aging does for the rice wine.
Currantly, i'm experimenting in the sake thread to see if I can make a decent dry, clear sake. For that, i'm using a different yeast even though i've been able to find White Labs Sake yeast strain #7 at my LHBS. I'm using lalvin 1116 wine yeast which the thread starter used in the sake thread. If you want to see what kinds of flavors you can get from your rice, i'd suggest that you experiment with the types of yeast and/or fungus (Aspergillus, Rhyzopus, etc.) to use.
You can always skip the fungus step by using alpha amylase and beta gluconase enzymes to break down the long chain starches into something the yeast can eat and then just experiment with pure sake, wine and beer yeast strains to see what you can produce. Just a thought.
Currantly, i'm experimenting in the sake thread to see if I can make a decent dry, clear sake. For that, i'm using a different yeast even though i've been able to find White Labs Sake yeast strain #7 at my LHBS. I'm using lalvin 1116 wine yeast which the thread starter used in the sake thread. If you want to see what kinds of flavors you can get from your rice, i'd suggest that you experiment with the types of yeast and/or fungus (Aspergillus, Rhyzopus, etc.) to use.
You can always skip the fungus step by using alpha amylase and beta gluconase enzymes to break down the long chain starches into something the yeast can eat and then just experiment with pure sake, wine and beer yeast strains to see what you can produce. Just a thought.
TheDemonSlick
Well-Known Member
I use the ones on the far right, alone or with monascus (red yeast rice). Good times.
aiptasia
Well-Known Member
Well, I can report that using bentonite on my rice wine works. I think the key is using hot water to thoroughly dissolve it before you add it to the rice wine and thoroughly mixing it in before cold crashing.
aiptasia
Well-Known Member
The instructions call for 2 tsp in 1/2 cup hot water for up to 5 gallons of wine. Since I had 32 ounces of wine, that's about .25 gallons. I used 1/4 teaspoon in 1/4 cup of piping hot water, stirred the heck out of it with a sanitized spoon, added it to the freshly pressed rice wine and stirred that up for about a minute prior to bottling. After that, I poured the rice wine into a 32 ounce swing top growler using my kitchen funnel, capped it, then pasteurized it (190f, cut the heat, insert the bottles and cover with a lid for 10 minutes). From there, it went directly on the bottom shelf of my fridge which is in the low 50's.
Two days later, it was about 1/3 cleared. Four days later (today) it was 2/3rds cleared. I used a small aquarium dosing pump to rack it slowly and gently off of the thick layer of rice sludge at the bottom using sanitized aquarium tubing. Out of 32 ounces cloudy rice wine, I now have about 22-23 ounces crystal clear rice wine with no filtration.
Two days later, it was about 1/3 cleared. Four days later (today) it was 2/3rds cleared. I used a small aquarium dosing pump to rack it slowly and gently off of the thick layer of rice sludge at the bottom using sanitized aquarium tubing. Out of 32 ounces cloudy rice wine, I now have about 22-23 ounces crystal clear rice wine with no filtration.
saramc
Well-Known Member
Either actually, but glass.
saramc
Well-Known Member
Everything you shared about traditional vinegar is correct, I have made it for years. But, rice wine vinegar like this is not made via traditional methods. I had a woman at an Asian grocer I stumbled upon while away from home show me bottles of her homemade rice wine. And they make their wine like we do. They do nothing more than tuck an opened bottle of rice (pasteurized is preferred she told me) wine, lid twisted 1/8 of way open, in the bottom of pantry or closet. She had bottles in varying degrees of oxidization and aging. The 2.5 year old one looked like soy sauce. It was one time my phone was dead, otherwise I would have shared photos. She said you usually do not have a mother form, due to alcohol content, but it is indeed vinegar-like.
aiptasia
Well-Known Member
I do have to say that it's much better with three week's aging. The bentonite clarification helped immensely but the results weren't quite as crystal clear as i'd hoped. Probably with more time in the fridge more of the rice solids would've settled out. At three weeks time, the taste is much smoother and mellower.
My latest creation using the Angel Rice Leaven.
Made 5 cups (dry) of Tai Jasmine rice with 1:1.25 rice to water ratio. Mixed it with 1 package of ARL and 1 cup of sugar. Put it in a glass gallon cookie jar with the cheesecloth and lid. After 1 week, I added 1 cup of warm water and the zest and juice of 2 limes. Let it go for another 2 weeks and harvested.
The results are awesome! Strong, smooth, a hint of the lime and very refreshing served cold.
Next batch will be the same but with Orange.
Loving me some rice wine...
Made 5 cups (dry) of Tai Jasmine rice with 1:1.25 rice to water ratio. Mixed it with 1 package of ARL and 1 cup of sugar. Put it in a glass gallon cookie jar with the cheesecloth and lid. After 1 week, I added 1 cup of warm water and the zest and juice of 2 limes. Let it go for another 2 weeks and harvested.
The results are awesome! Strong, smooth, a hint of the lime and very refreshing served cold.
Next batch will be the same but with Orange.
Loving me some rice wine...
So has anyone used the honeyman method on theirs to find out the ABV of this stuff? I've heard numbers as high as 20% but I drank more than a pint of my first batch and was barely buzzed. Generally I catch a very good buzz off 3 strong beers and sometimes 2 is enough and 3 is too much. I was thinking if it was 15% it would be twice as strong as the beers I'm used to so I was thinking ~16 oz would be like 32oz. of beer which I assure you gets me a buzz. ~16 oz of it gave me a buzz equivalent to one or 1.5 strong beers. Just enough to know there is alcohol in you but not enough to KNOW there is alcohol in you know-what-I-mean?
Could it be that my batch was "beer strength?" Maybe this next one will be stronger.
Could it be that my batch was "beer strength?" Maybe this next one will be stronger.
Fuzzymittenbrewing
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I think a lot of factors could contribute to different levels here. But I'm more than sure mine is around 20 but at the same time I'm not dying to find out or really willing to waste any to find out. But this has been brought up before , don't think anyone actually did it.
What makes you more than sure yours is ~20? Not a disagreement, serious question.
I would think using the same rice and balls and water ratio would get you pretty consistent ABV whatever it was.
I might waste a pint and try it out. Maybe that guy who made a 6 gallon bucket full can spare a pint and some time to check this out.
aiptasia
Well-Known Member
I judged mine based on the nose and liver test. I'd actually like to test mine for ABV if there is a way to do it without gravity readings at home. Got a link?
OP
OP
We have discussed this before with most agreeing that a number of factors like the solids may screw up the results. That and most of us are not willing to waste any of our precious rice wine
I feel fairly comfortable saying mine is 15-20% based on the bite / amount to get buzzed factor.
OP
OP
Fuzzymittenbrewing
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See Sonofgroks post^^^ I'm comfortable putting mine in that range, but like I said its not a concern of mine to have indisputable proof in this case
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