Making one huge starter vs. stepping one up slowly

[allanmac00]

I have read that some people will grow as much as 2 liters worth of yeast starter on high gravity beers. Is there any real difference between making one really big starter (if you have a 2 liter vessel) and making a small one, then stepping it up until you get to the desired amount? I would much prefer to just make it once. Any thoughts?

 

[kryolla]

If you are starting from a smack pack or white labs vial then I wouldn't step it up more than 2L at once you might risk the chance of infection as bacteria multiply twice as fast as yeast does. Is this going on a stirplate if not than I would step it up to 1L than 2L

 

[allanmac00]

If you are starting from a smack pack or white labs vial then I wouldn't step it up more than 2L at once you might risk the chance of infection as bacteria multiply twice as fast as yeast does. Is this going on a stirplate if not than I would step it up to 1L than 2L

Why would their be a higher risk of infection? Most people add a smackpack or vial directly to 5 gallons of wort when they brew, why would just over 2L be an issue?

 

[kryolla]

Why would their be a higher risk of infection? Most people add a smackpack or vial directly to 5 gallons of wort when they brew, why would just over 2L be an issue?

You want the yeast to outcompete the bacteria before the bacteria gets hold. What you suggest will work but its not good practice. Read this

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Yes there is a difference imo. Making too small of a starter for a given amount of yeast actually leave the yeast depleted of nutrients and less prepared to ferment a full batch of beer. That's why it is recommended to not make starters (using relatively fresh Activator packs/vials) less than 1L. It is also recommended to make each step 5x-10x the previous step (for the same reason).

Doing a little quick math it's easy to see that in order to 'step up' to a 2L starter, the previous step really should be 1/5-1/10 of that; or .2L-.4L. But you shouldn't really be making a .2L-.4L starter from a fresh vial/pack in the first place. So you should just make the 2L starter to begin with.

However, many times we don't start with a fresh vial/pack of yeast. It may only be 10% viable in which case you could step that up by starting small (and also slightly lower gravity than a typ starter too).

 

[allanmac00]

However, many times we don't start with a fresh vial/pack of yeast. It may only be 10% viable in which case you could step that up by starting small (and also slightly lower gravity than a typ starter too).

How do you know if the vial/pack is fresh? Production date?

 

[shadowmage36]

How do you know if the vial/pack is fresh? Production date?

Ding-ding-ding! We have a winrar!

Expired yeast, yeast from a frozen or refigerated yeast bank, or yeast from the bottom of a bottle can all be far less viable than the yeast from a fresh vial or smack-pack. In those cases, stepping up from a smaller starter (perhaps around 500mL) to a larger one (2000+mL) would be the best idea.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Yes. You can use the Mr Malty pitch rate calculator to get a rough estimate of the viability.

 

[Brew-boy]

I also have heard the rule of thumb is 10x when stepping up starters.

 

[sp1365]

I also have heard the rule of thumb is 10x when stepping up starters.

That is what i have heard as well. 5x-10x per step is what I have seen in almost all literature that I have read.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Meh. I just go straight into a 1 gallon DME 1.040 wort on a stir plate. Never had issues.