Making double sized starters and saving half

[Barrelagedvinyl]

I currently have a 1.2L starter of some Imperial A20 Citrus that's well past it's best by date. I'm hoping i could make a starter, pitch half and save half. If i do so, is the shelf life of the saved half basically the same as buying a fresh pack? or are commercial packets fortified somehow for shelf life?

And if it's just that easy, could i effectively do the same thing with Lacto and Brett? I imagine they'll take a bit longer to grow up, and may need some sort of initial PH adjustment of the starter wort.

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

Yes, you can bank your starter. When I first started banking yeast I use to use pint mason jars. Over build the starter by 16 Oz. and save that much out for some time in the future. Could be weeks, months or years down the line. Now I only save out 100 ml. That is enough to get a new starter going and to start the process over again.

The oldest yeast I've resurrected is 14 months. I expect that to go a lot longer in the future. Possibly years before needing to bring something back to life again.

Just make sure you sanitize everything and you should be good to go.

 

[Dgallo]

I currently have a 1.2L starter of some Imperial A20 Citrus that's well past it's best by date. I'm hoping i could make a starter, pitch half and save half. If i do so, is the shelf life of the saved half basically the same as buying a fresh pack? or are commercial packets fortified somehow for shelf life?

And if it's just that easy, could i effectively do the same thing with Lacto and Brett? I imagine they'll take a bit longer to grow up, and may need some sort of initial PH adjustment of the starter wort.

You can but if you’re quite past the date you need to make a few step up starters to hit 500 billion cells

 

[CodeSection]

Yes, you can bank your starter. When I first started banking yeast I use to use pint mason jars. Over build the starter by 16 Oz. and save that much out for some time in the future. Could be weeks, months or years down the line. Now I only save out 100 ml. That is enough to get a new starter going and to start the process over again.

The oldest yeast I've resurrected is 14 months. I expect that to go a lot longer in the future. Possibly years before needing to bring something back to life again.

Just make sure you sanitize everything and you should be good to go.

Wow! You going down to 100 ml makes me feel that my quart is way overkill. I will continue using the quart size since I have plenty on hand. But it is nice to know I can step down to a smaller jar size if I need more room in the refrigerator.

 

[IslandLizard]

Use a yeast pitch calculator to estimate viable cells in your yeast pack or saved out slurry, and how many are needed for a proper pitch in that batch:
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

I tend to overbuild and therefore make 1.6-1.8 liter starters, and save out what I don't need. I always cold crash, decant most, and pitch thick but pourable slurries. The remainder is stored in 4oz or 8oz mason/jelly jars, to save space.

Often I make "vitality starters" from some (or all) of the freshly crashed slurry on brewday, and pitch that for quicker lift off, which I've witnessed to happen within 3 hours after pitching. Good starter and batch oxygenation helps a lot with that too.

 

[DVCNick]

What I've done so far is make ~1.5L starters, and when they are done, or close, swirl it up and pour off probably ~4 oz into a small mason jar. this give me about 1.2L left, which I then cold crash and pour off most of the clear starter wort; pitch the slurry into a 5gal batch.

The saved 4oz compresses a thin layer of yeast on the bottom of the mason jar; when it is time to make a new starter, I pull the mason jar out, decant 90 percent of the liquid, and pitch the mini-slurry into my new starter.

Rinse and repeat. I can't swear to cell counts or anything; I just know this method has made beer that I like.

 

[Nate R]

Hi all... kinda new to making starters but want to start saving on yeast costs.

I have a 1L and 2L pyrex flasks. Also have a stir plate.

If i use a fresh pack of 100 billion cells yeast, can i go right up to a 2L starter? Or do i need to make 1L first then 2L?

Also, if i use a fresh Imperial 200 billion yeast, same question
Thanks all!

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

Hi all... kinda new to making starters but want to start saving on yeast costs.

I have a 1L and 2L pyrex flasks. Also have a stir plate.

If i use a fresh pack of 100 billion cells yeast, can i go right up to a 2L starter? Or do i need to make 1L first then 2L?

Also, if i use a fresh Imperial 200 billion yeast, same question
Thanks all!

Yes, you can go straight to making a 2l starter. Your issue is going to be making a 2l starter with the equipment you have. In almost every case, when I've tried to make a 2l starter in a 2l flask, I ended up with an overflow issue. The largest starter you are going to be able to make in a 2l flask is 1.5l. And that is pushing it.

After the first couple of overflows on to my stir plate with larger starters, using the 2l, I purchased a 4l flask and never looked back. I'll go to 5l if I ever find a good deal on one.

The largest starter I've made in the 4l flask was 2.5l. I could probably push it to 3l if I needed to.

 

[Nate R]

Yes, you can go straight to making a 2l starter. Your issue is going to be making a 2l starter with the equipment you have. In almost every case, when I've tried to make a 2l starter in a 2l flask, I ended up with an overflow issue. The largest starter you are going to be able to make in a 2l flask is 1.5l. And that is pushing it.

After the first couple of overflows on to my stir plate with larger starters, using the 2l, I purchased a 4l flask and never looked back. I'll go to 5l if I ever find a good deal on one.

The largest starter I've made in the 4l flask was 2.5l. I could probably push it to 3l if I needed to.

Thanks...
Would the overflow come from boiling the wort OR the krausen during the grow phase?

I got a 4 pack of "cheater" canned wort otw (propper starter) so i am not.going to mess with the boil this time

 

[CodeSection]

I use a 5L flask. The one MoreBeer sells after the 15% off goes from $39.99 to $33.99...a savings of $6. https://www.morebeer.com/products/erlenmeyer-flask-5000-ml.html

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

Thanks...
Would the overflow come from boiling the wort OR the krausen during the grow phase?

I got a 4 pack of "cheater" canned wort otw (propper starter) so i am not.going to mess with the boil this time

It was a krausen issue. Some yeast is more vigorous than others.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi all... kinda new to making starters but want to start saving on yeast costs.

I have a 1L and 2L pyrex flasks. Also have a stir plate.

If i use a fresh pack of 100 billion cells yeast, can i go right up to a 2L starter? Or do i need to make 1L first then 2L?

Also, if i use a fresh Imperial 200 billion yeast, same question
Thanks all!

In addition to what others have said.

Use the yeast calculator I linked to earlier:
BrewUnited's Yeast Calculator

The 1 liter flasks are too small for much growth, unless you want to make a step starter from some old (or way out of date) yeast.
Using a drop of Fermcap-S in your starter wort may reduce foaming on the stir plate somewhat, but yeah, a 1.6-1.8 liter starter (total volume, including the yeast pack!) is about the max useful volume for a 2 liter flask.

Don't boil starter wort in a glass flask, you're asking for disasters, they'll crack, sooner or later. Instead, boil starter wort in a (clean) stainless pot, cover, let chill to pitching temps in a sink or tub of cold water, agitate a bit, while doing 2 or 3 water changes, then pour the chilled or tepid wort into your flask. Bonus: chilling in stainless in 4x faster than in glass.

The biggest problem with larger flasks (3-5 liter ones) is they're big.
When cold crashing them in the fridge they'll need a shelf with ample headroom. Even the 2 liter flasks do not fit on a shelf in mine without removing one, but I can fit 2 of those flasks in a wide door shelf, usually reserved for gallon jugs of milk or juice. They can go elsewhere for the time being, they're not quite as tall, easier to fit on a regular shelf.

For most 5.5 gallon batch pitches a 2 liter flask (1.6-1.8 liter starter) will give you plenty of cells.

Oh, save some money by yeast ranching.
Overbuild your starters and save out 50-100 billion cells for a next time.
Due to "limited" fridge space considerations, I use small squat 4 oz mason/jelly jars to store those. Pour some of the decanted and swirled up yeast slurry into the jelly jar. Then top off with some (sanitary) starter beer you saved when decanting. Use good sanitation practices when handling yeast, of course! You could put the small mason jar on a scale to estimate how much slurry (cells) you're pouring out.

Here's another good yeast calculator, especially the "pitch from slurry" tab:
Mr. Malty

 

[Stand]

Whenever I buy a new yeast I overbuild by 400b cells when I go to brew (I have a 5L flask). I then cold crash it hard for at least a week and sometimes more for really low flocculating yeasts and fill 8 sterile 50ML centrifuge vials half way with the yeast cake and then fill with a sterile 70/30 glycerin/water mixture and throw them in the freezer. I bought 5 strains last year, but I haven't bought yeast since January. Works great for me.

 

[IslandLizard]

What I've done so far is make ~1.5L starters, and when they are done, or close, swirl it up and pour off probably ~4 oz into a small mason jar. this give me about 1.2L left,

4 oz = 4 x ~30 ml = ~120ml
1500 - 120 = 1380 ml, close to 1.4 liter left

 

[DVCNick]

I guess I'm dumping off a little more than four oz then.

 

[Nagorg]

I saw someone post some type of plastic jar that they used instead of glass mason jars. The benefit being no risk of breakage from any CO2 production. There was a link to where they purchased them too but I cant find that now for the life of me.

Any ideas???

 

[Nagorg]

I found these just now on Amazon but its not what I remember someone posted before. Would probably work just fine though...

 

[Nate R]

I saw someone post some type of plastic jar that they used instead of glass mason jars. The benefit being no risk of breakage from any CO2 production. There was a link to where they purchased them too but I cant find that now for the life of me.

Any ideas???

I was told a glass mason jar... but there arr plastic lids available... on my list for the next wally world trip

 

[SEndorf]

I use a 5L flask. The one MoreBeer sells after the 15% off goes from $39.99 to $33.99...a savings of $6. https://www.morebeer.com/products/erlenmeyer-flask-5000-ml.html

This.....
Go big or go home.

 

[CodeSection]

Whenever I buy a new yeast I overbuild by 400b cells when I go to brew (I have a 5L flask). I then cold crash it hard for at least a week and sometimes more for really low flocculating yeasts and fill 8 sterile 50ML centrifuge vials half way with the yeast cake and then fill with a sterile 70/30 glycerin/water mixture and throw them in the freezer. I bought 5 strains last year, but I haven't bought yeast since January. Works great for me.

When I read this, I thought of slants that I was reading about earlier in the year. At that time I decided it seemed like a lot of work especially using a pressure cooker. I currently over build and fill a quart canning jar. Then when I'm ready to use again, I decant the beer and use the slurry to over build another starter and fill another quart jar. I keep track of generations.

I like your setup as it takes less of a footprint and you are making eight future starters off the one over build. Though, you are probably using more DME when using those 50ML starters as opposed to using a quart jar. I would think having them in a freezer would extend the shelf life over having them in a refrigerator.

Could you provide more info? Are you using plastic or glass centrifuge vials? I could only find plastic on Amazon. Are you using vegetable glycerin? Looking at tables, the 70/30 mix of glycerin/water gives a freezing point of -38F. So the purpose of that mixture is so the yeast does not freeze since it is mixed in? I don't understand. What is the estimated shelf life?

 

[Nate R]

+1 to answers feom all that above please....
Plus- i recall reading that feeezing the yeast (with glycol) kills about half the cells? I could be off on that.

Thanks!

 

[Stand]

I adapted my process from the yeast slanting procedure on HBT as well as a few other sites. Let my scrounge around and see if I can find the walkthrough I read on this.

The vials and the glycerine are from amazon.

I am using larger vials to allow me to hit my target cell count in a 2 step starter. I only do 10 gallon batches, so keep that in mind.

My process is as follows:

To overbuild for 8 vials.

1. 5L Starter (It's only this big because I'm going to use half of it in a 10 gallon batch of beer.)
   
2. Cold Crash/Decant
   
3. Fill sterile Vials halfway with yeast
4. Top up with 30/70 Water/Glycerine Mixture (I sterilize a mason jar of this in my instapot)
5. Put them in the deep-freezer in an insulated bag (so they don't freeze too fast).

For a starter I do this:

1. Remove vial from freezer
2. Make 3.6L of starter wort.
3. Divide evenly into 4 mason jars (I do this directly from boil with mason jar in a pot with an inch of hot water).
   
4. Cold crash 1 mason jar to room temp and pitch vial on stir-plate
5. 24h later I pitch the other 3 mason jars

I can't get the brewunited calculator to work now, but that's what I used to do the math for this procedure originally

I've been looking over some of the other procedures after posting this, and I really like Bootleg Biology's procedure. I think I'm going to start filling my centrifuge vials 20% with glycerin and pressure cooking them as they suggest and filling the rest of the way with slurry. That's a simpler way to guarantee the right concentration.