Maine Beer Co. Peeper Ale clone?

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dickproenneke

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I LOVE THIS BEER! If you've had it then you know what I'm talking about :rockin:

SWMBO has been on me to try a Peeper clone for my next brew; the only problem is that there are virtually no clone attempts by others HBers to work off of. The best help comes from Maine Beer's website:

Our original hoppy American ale. Dry, clean, well-balanced with a generous dose of American hops.

Vitals:

Color – Golden

ABV – 5.5%

O.G. – 1.047

Malt – American 2-Row, CaraPils, Vienna, Red Wheat

Hops – US Magnum, Amarillo, Cascade, Centennial

...Now I am still very much a noob at this hobby, but if I was to guesstimate a grain bill based off of these vitals it'd go something like

70% 2-Row
15% Vienna
10% red wheat
5% carapils

This beer is pure west coast-style hop nirvana, but with minimal bitterness, so I'm gonna assume there's quite a bit of "hop bursting" going on.

60min - Magnum (small charge/.25oz for 5gal)
10min - 1oz Centennial
5min - .75oz each Amarillo + Cascade
30min hop steep - .75oz each Amarillo, Cent + Cascade
DH - 1oz each Cent + Amarillo

This whole hopping schedule is just a wild guess (like my grain bill).

Maine Beer states an OG of 1.047 with a 5.5%ABV. My math sucks but thats gotta be over 80% attenuation!?! If this is true, then they are probably using an aggressive strain like Pacman, no? I've had WLP001 get to 80% once but I think it was a fluke.

If anyone out there in HBT Land has either had Peeper or attempted a clone and can shed light on the subject, then I'd love to hear from ya.

Cheers!
 
Posted this a few days ago... You probably saw it. Looking for the same on Zoe.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/maine-beer-co-zoe-amber-ale-clone-attempt-384287/

My guesses are: Less than 8% Vienna, Less than 8% Red Wheat, Less than 4% CaraPils.

It appears 1.047 / 1.005 would yield 5.5% abv. A lofty goal, but attainable if your processes are sound... especially with 0% crystal malt in the recipe. Do a long, low mash and add enough fresh, healthy, high attenuating, moderate floc yeast (Peeper is a tad cloudy) into highly oxygenated wort. Ferment in the low to mid 60s then raise to upper 60s when fermentation slows.

A 60/5/0/DH schedule would probably be best for Peeper. Aroma steep of Amarillo & Centennial. Dryhop = 2.5 oz. for 5 gallons. Don't go overboard on the Amarillo in the dryhop, as things may get quite fruity -- Cascade would be the DH majority, followed by Centennial, and a touch of Amarillo.
 
Their Lunch IPA has a similar 'more than you would expect' low terminal gravity. My guess is they use a high attenuating and clean ale strain, and like to mash in the 140's for the sacc step.
 
Posted this a few days ago... You probably saw it. Looking for the same on Zoe.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/maine-beer-co-zoe-amber-ale-clone-attempt-384287/

My guesses are: Less than 8% Vienna, Less than 8% Red Wheat, Less than 4% CaraPils.

It appears 1.047 / 1.005 would yield 5.5% abv. A lofty goal, but attainable if your processes are sound... especially with 0% crystal malt in the recipe. Do a long, low mash and add enough fresh, healthy, high attenuating, moderate floc yeast (Peeper is a tad cloudy) into highly oxygenated wort. Ferment in the low to mid 60s then raise to upper 60s when fermentation slows.

A 60/5/0/DH schedule would probably be best for Peeper. Aroma steep of Amarillo & Centennial. Dryhop = 2.5 oz. for 5 gallons. Don't go overboard on the Amarillo in the dryhop, as things may get quite fruity -- Cascade would be the DH majority, followed by Centennial, and a touch of Amarillo.

Yes I think I did see your thread in my googlings. Maine Beer is quickly becoming one of my fave micros. Peeper is certainly delicious IMO as is Mean Old Tom. I haven't had Zoe yet. I'll have to pick up a bottle on my next beer run... I won't argue your suggestions for the hop schedule. I've followed your suggestions with other beers and have been VERY happy with the results... I'm stumped with the yeast though. 001 has never let me down so I'll probably just step up a big starter and pitch that... How low is low for the mash? 148* for 75mins?
 
A 60/5/0/DH schedule would probably be best for Peeper. Aroma steep of Amarillo & Centennial. Dryhop = 2.5 oz. for 5 gallons. Don't go overboard on the Amarillo in the dryhop, as things may get quite fruity -- Cascade would be the DH majority, followed by Centennial, and a touch of Amarillo.

Hey Bob, what do ya think for something like this? I may brew thing in the next two weeks

80% 2-row
6% Vienna
5% Red Wheat
5% carapils

Mash 140* for 90mins, raise to 156* for 15mins, mash out, sparge at 168*

60min - .25oz Warrior - 15AA - I know Maine uses Magnum, but I have much Warrior in the freezer

5min - 1oz Cascade - 5.5AA
5min - .5oz Centennial - 10AA
5min - .25oz Amarillo - 7AA

Hop Steep 30mins - 1oz Centennial - 10AA
Hop Steep 30mins - 1oz Amarillo - 7AA

DH 7days - 1.25oz Cascade - 5.5AA
DH 7days - .75 oz Centennial - 10AA
DH 7days - .5oz Amarillo - 7AA

2L starter - WLP001/ ferment at 64* 7days/ raise to 69* for 2wks/ DH at 21days
 
80% 2-row
6% Vienna
5% Red Wheat
5% carapils

That's good. Maybe reduce the carapils a bit more for the sake of more wheat. Where's the other 4%? Add it to the base malt or use corn sugar. Your call.

Hop schedule is good.

Mash 140* for 90mins, raise to 156* for 15mins, mash out, sparge at 168*

I would do something more like 145 F for 60, 148-149 F for 20.

2L starter - WLP001/ ferment at 64* 7days/ raise to 69* for 2wks/ DH at 21days

Ferment at 62-66 F 10 days, raising temp gradually. Then raise to 68 F and DH for 7 days. Bottle on day 21.
 
Peeper is delicious! MO is another favorite of mine from MBC. My local draft house has had both recently. Needless to say..neither lasted long! I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, would make a great house beer!
 
Peeper is delicious! MO is another favorite of mine from MBC. My local draft house has had both recently. Needless to say..neither lasted long! I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, would make a great house beer!

Love your avatar, BTW. I just had some had this years NN and it is spectacular :mug:
 
Here's the peeper clone recipe from the brewer, HBT member jfowler1 gave me a copy of this email from Daniel Kleban, so all the thanks go to jfowler1.


glad you liked the beer. your recipe is actually pretty close.

i use american 2-row base malt (88%), then red wheat(3.5%), vienna(3.5%), and c-10(5%). us magum as bittering charge the equal amounts cascade, centennial, amarillo at beginning of whirlpool. dry hop equal amounts centennial and amarillo only (4.5 oz/ 5 gal). house yeast is a variant of wyeast 1056. mash at 150 and sparge with 180 degree hot liquor to raise runoff to 172ish. 60 minute boil. if you have specific questions, let me know.

og: 1.053
fg: 1.011
IBU: approx 45
SRM: no idea

cheers!

Daniel Kleban
Owner/ Head Brewer
Maine Beer Company

my secret: extreme late hopping (up to 50% of IBU's come from whirlpool hops)
 
Buna_Bere said:
Here's the peeper clone recipe from the brewer, HBT member jfowler1 gave me a copy of this email from Daniel Kleban, so all the thanks go to jfowler1.

glad you liked the beer. your recipe is actually pretty close.

i use american 2-row base malt (88%), then red wheat(3.5%), vienna(3.5%), and c-10(5%). us magum as bittering charge the equal amounts cascade, centennial, amarillo at beginning of whirlpool. dry hop equal amounts centennial and amarillo only (4.5 oz/ 5 gal). house yeast is a variant of wyeast 1056. mash at 150 and sparge with 180 degree hot liquor to raise runoff to 172ish. 60 minute boil. if you have specific questions, let me know.

og: 1.053
fg: 1.011
IBU: approx 45
SRM: no idea

cheers!

Daniel Kleban
Owner/ Head Brewer
Maine Beer Company

my secret: extreme late hopping (up to 50% of IBU's come from whirlpool hops)

No sh*t! Straight from the brewer?!? This is amazing! Thanks so much Buna! That FG is much more realistic compared to what MBC has listed on their website - OG1.047/FG1.005?!
 
Buna_Bere said:
us magum as bittering charge the equal amounts cascade, centennial, amarillo at beginning of whirlpool. dry hop equal amounts centennial and amarillo only (4.5 oz/ 5 gal).

Would you understand this statement to mean 4.5oz total hops in the whirlpool and DH? Or 4.5oz in the DH only? If the latter, would you suppose 2.5-3oz in the whirlpool are adequate?
 
Would you understand this statement to mean 4.5oz total hops in the whirlpool and DH? Or 4.5oz in the DH only? If the latter, would you suppose 2.5-3oz in the whirlpool are adequate?


He's definitely saying 4.5 oz per 5 gallons for a dry hop addition. If you use his IBU's of around 45, he says around 50% of the IBU's come from the bittering. You'd need to work this out with beersmith, but the tricky part is how long to hold the hot whirlpool to get around 23 IBU's. He must be doing at least a 30 minute hot whirlpool, although it's probably more like 60 minutes. 2.5-3 oz whirlpool is probably close, but you'd have to work it out with beersmith, just move the additions back to say 30 mins and see how many IBU's they'd add there. Another thing is the bittering addition will also contribute more IBU's then the software says, because of the added hot whirlpool time. I wouldn't worry about going overboard on the whirlpool addition.
 
I make a clone of this all the time (made the most recent version just yesterday), as it's a regular in my home kegerator and it always goes quickly. Mine comes out pretty spot-on, so feel free to copy it. I jokingly call my version "Cheeper."

Here's what I do:

Batch Size: 6 Gallons, yields 1 completely full cornelius keg at the end.

Brewhouse Efficiency: 73%

Target OG: 1.052 - 1.053
Target FG: 1.010 - 1.011
Estimated SRM: 4.2

Water. This is the target, I get as close as I can by adding salts to Portland City water, but never hit the numbers exactly. I always prepare 10 gallons of water as the math is easier.

Ca: 62ppm
Mg: 21ppm
Na: 75ppm
SO4: 127ppm
Cl: 93ppm
HCO3: 170ppm

In my opinion, if you can't hit the above numbers, err on the side of slightly lower ppm amounts, not higher, especially for the SO4, HCO3 and Ca.

Malt Bill (adjust for your known brewhouse efficiency, mine is 73%). Remember also that this for 6 gallons. The important numbers are the percentages:

10.5lbs American 2-Row (I use Rahr) - 88%
0.6lbs Crystal 10L - 5%
0.4lbs Malted Wheat - 3.5%
0.4lbs Vienna - 3.5%

Mash 1.15 quarts/lbs for 1 hour at 150F. Fly-sparge to collect 7 gallons of wort with pre-boil gravity of ~1.044 (assuming 1 gallon/hour boil-off loss).

Hops:
0.25oz Magnum (mine were 13.9%AA) for 60 minutes.

Then at flame-out, add 1 whirlfloc tablet and the following:
1oz Amarilllo
1oz Cascade
1oz Centennial

Whirlpool and let sit for 30 minutes, making sure temperature remains above 185 preferably, above 175 definitely.

Run through chiller after the 30 minutes and pitch 1 hydrated packet of Safale US-05 (or your preferred form of Chico) and oxygenate wort normally.

I ferment in a temperature controlled fridge at 62' ambient, fermentation itself occurs around 64-65. Lag-time can be fairly long, RDWHAHB. Krausen will only get about 1" high, no blowoff necessary.

When fermentation ceases, dry-hop with 2.5oz each of Amarillo and 2oz Centannial for 5 days. After 5 days, cold-crash for 24 hours and keg. I don't bother with secondary or racking, cold-crashing completely suffices.

Chris Sprague
 
C. Sprague, I like that recipe and hope to try it soon. Nothing like a pint of peeper from a fresh keg. What was that dry-hop schedule though?

2.5 oz Amarillo
2 oz Centennial, for five days?

Since you're doing this in primary should I assume you're using pellets? OR, is this in a bucket? Thanks for the recipe.
 
I brewed this and have it in the primary now. My efficiency is a bit low, so I increased the malt bill a bit, keeping the percentages the same. For the dryhop, I used 1 oz cascade, 2 oz centennial, and 1 oz amarillo (basically what I had on hand without making a run to the LHBS).

It is cold crashing now, but I took a quick sample, and it tastes/smells amazing - possibly a bit closer to a "session ipa" than I remember peeper being, but it has been a while since I have had peeper.
 
terrell, are you drinking yours yet? I brewed csprague's recipe exactly on 8/4/13 and it's currently fermenting strong at 64F. Brewday went reasonably well, as I came in higher than my planned efficiency, but didn't collect as much volume as planned (about 5.7 gallons of 1.056 wort). The only difference in my recipe was using Centennial for bittering since I have a ton of it and no Magnum. I'll post back in a few weeks with some results.
 
C. Sprague, I like that recipe and hope to try it soon. Nothing like a pint of peeper from a fresh keg. What was that dry-hop schedule though?

2.5 oz Amarillo
2 oz Centennial, for five days?

Since you're doing this in primary should I assume you're using pellets? OR, is this in a bucket? Thanks for the recipe.

Yes, both for 5 days, pellets, in primary. Most will drop out by then, but on day 5 I stick it in a fridge to cold crash. It is always ready to keg the next day.

Also, I've tried experimenting with the late hop addition, and these days I tend to not add all 3oz at flameout: I instead add .25oz of each at 5 minutes, and the rest at flameout. The difference is rather subtle, but I definitely detect a bit of additional hop flavor using that method. Maybe it's in my head, but since the change is so subtle, there's really no down-side either.

Chris
 
NHMikeT - I am drinking mine now, and it is very very very good. It has been over a year since I've had peeper though, so I don't think I can compare it very well with (my recollections of) the original though. I dry hopped for 24 hours, then cold crashed for 24 hours and it dropped crystal clear. The hop aroma is amazing.

It looks like the actual grain bill they are using now is somewhat different - they posted a snippet of the brewsheet for their 100th batch, and it looks like they use some carapils - https://twitter.com/mainebeerbrewer/status/370191907617390594/photo/1
 
terrells - thanks for the reply and the link. yeah, looks like there must be some carapils in there now. i'm dry-hopping mine in primary tomorrow for probably 3-4 days, so i'll post back in couple weeks after i've had a chance to sample it. been a couple months since i've had peeper as well, so i probably won't be able to tell how close it is, but as long as it's good, i don't really care too much.

Cheers,
MT
 
csprague said:
I make a clone of this all the time (made the most recent version just yesterday), as it's a regular in my home kegerator and it always goes quickly. Mine comes out pretty spot-on, so feel free to copy it. I jokingly call my version "Cheeper."

Here's what I do:

Batch Size: 6 Gallons, yields 1 completely full cornelius keg at the end.

Brewhouse Efficiency: 73%

Target OG: 1.052 - 1.053
Target FG: 1.010 - 1.011
Estimated SRM: 4.2

Water. This is the target, I get as close as I can by adding salts to Portland City water, but never hit the numbers exactly. I always prepare 10 gallons of water as the math is easier.

Ca: 62ppm
Mg: 21ppm
Na: 75ppm
SO4: 127ppm
Cl: 93ppm
HCO3: 170ppm

In my opinion, if you can't hit the above numbers, err on the side of slightly lower ppm amounts, not higher, especially for the SO4, HCO3 and Ca.

Malt Bill (adjust for your known brewhouse efficiency, mine is 73%). Remember also that this for 6 gallons. The important numbers are the percentages:

10.5lbs American 2-Row (I use Rahr) - 88%
0.6lbs Crystal 10L - 5%
0.4lbs Malted Wheat - 3.5%
0.4lbs Vienna - 3.5%

Mash 1.15 quarts/lbs for 1 hour at 150F. Fly-sparge to collect 7 gallons of wort with pre-boil gravity of ~1.044 (assuming 1 gallon/hour boil-off loss).

Hops:
0.25oz Magnum (mine were 13.9%AA) for 60 minutes.

Then at flame-out, add 1 whirlfloc tablet and the following:
1oz Amarilllo
1oz Cascade
1oz Centennial

Whirlpool and let sit for 30 minutes, making sure temperature remains above 185 preferably, above 175 definitely.

Run through chiller after the 30 minutes and pitch 1 hydrated packet of Safale US-05 (or your preferred form of Chico) and oxygenate wort normally.

I ferment in a temperature controlled fridge at 62' ambient, fermentation itself occurs around 64-65. Lag-time can be fairly long, RDWHAHB. Krausen will only get about 1" high, no blowoff necessary.

When fermentation ceases, dry-hop with 2.5oz each of Amarillo and 2oz Centannial for 5 days. After 5 days, cold-crash for 24 hours and keg. I don't bother with secondary or racking, cold-crashing completely suffices.

Chris Sprague

hey Chris. wonderful recipe here! Only thing that's confusing me is the super small magnum addition at 60mins. just a rough estimate using a standard bitterness calculator that boiling 7 gal of ~1.044 wort with a .25 oz addition of 13.9% magnum only generates ~10 IBUs. do you expect to get another 30 something IBUs from the flameout addition alone? Seems like an awful lot, even if your only whirlpooling for 30 mins! I understand that the brewer is able to generate 50% of bitterness from whirlpooling but have you been able to get similar results? Let me know your thoughts, or anyone else out there that may able to offer any info.
 
hey Chris. wonderful recipe here! Only thing that's confusing me is the super small magnum addition at 60mins. just a rough estimate using a standard bitterness calculator that boiling 7 gal of ~1.044 wort with a .25 oz addition of 13.9% magnum only generates ~10 IBUs. do you expect to get another 30 something IBUs from the flameout addition alone? Seems like an awful lot, even if your only whirlpooling for 30 mins! I understand that the brewer is able to generate 50% of bitterness from whirlpooling but have you been able to get similar results? Let me know your thoughts, or anyone else out there that may able to offer any info.

Bump

I was wondering the same thing myself
 
mkravitz and WTW - I can give you some limited insight from my first brew of this recipe. I kegged this 4 weeks agoand this beer is definitely excellent (albeit a little astringent, but that's my process problem). I followed Chris's recipe exactly (adjusted for my efficiency) and if I were to do it again I would probably put a third of the whirlpool addition at 5 minutes. The aroma is definitely a blast of grapefruit and orange but to me, the flavor isn't quite as present as I was looking for. This was my first experiment with solely whirlpool addition hops for flavor/aroma, and it was a valuable test.

Hope that helps.

Also, it appears that MBC might be making Peeper with some Carapils, as shown in the twitter link posted by terrells - but Chris's recipe is definitely awesome.
 
NHMikeT said:
mkravitz and WTW - I can give you some limited insight from my first brew of this recipe. I kegged this 4 weeks agoand this beer is definitely excellent (albeit a little astringent, but that's my process problem). I followed Chris's recipe exactly (adjusted for my efficiency) and if I were to do it again I would probably put a third of the whirlpool addition at 5 minutes. The aroma is definitely a blast of grapefruit and orange but to me, the flavor isn't quite as present as I was looking for. This was my first experiment with solely whirlpool addition hops for flavor/aroma, and it was a valuable test.

Hope that helps.

Also, it appears that MBC might be making Peeper with some Carapils, as shown in the twitter link posted by terrells - but Chris's recipe is definitely awesome.

thanks for your helpful response. Yeah I saw that Maine is using some carapils in their peeper recipe now. I imagine its not more than three percent or so. or they may have completely replaced their crystal 10 with carapils. Astringent huh? Only .25 ounce of magnum and you got that much bitterness from that sixty min addition alone? in the whirlpool you shouldn't get very much bitterness really, typically about a ten to fifteen percent utilization. I am really eager to try this recipe. I think breweries are able to make the 60 minute addition and a whirlpool thing work but maybe not for homebrew scale and equipment. I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

I would imagine you would get the most hop flavor from whirlpooling. Curious that this 5min thing is managing to generate more flavor than all the late addition hops combined into the whirlpool alone.

so all in all, what were your general findings from just using a whirlpool for flavor and aroma (aside from the massive dry hop that is)?
 
mkravitz -
i kicked that keg a week ago so i can provide a finished update. firstly, i think the astringency i had was from sparge pH - tannins. however, i do feel that i got enough bitterness from the 60 minute Magnum addition (mine were 15%AA) and the 30-minute whirlpool.

i felt like the flavor came up a little bit shorter than when i do a more "typical" schedule like 60/15/5/FO hops additions. i did an APA with Cascade and Mosaic only at that schedule and a 2oz DH and it was exploding with flavor. like i said though, that's just my experience on my equipment. i rarely brew the same recipe close together, but if i brew csprague's Peeper again, i'll probably add a third to half of the listed WP addition between 15-5 min mark.

hope that helps!
 
I brewed this yesterday and got 90% efficiency. OG of 1.056. I'm doing 5 gallons with wlp001 and 5 with 1056 to see which i like better. The 1056 took off much quicker. I think I'm going to dry hop in the keg using 5 gallon hop bags. Should I expect any negatives from doing this?
 
HellBent, sorry for the late reply, but I just dry-hopped in the keg for the first time last weekend. Yet to see the results, but expecting good things. How did yours go?
 
Came out well but is like it to be a little more bitter. I think dry hopping in the kegs caused it to be a little too hazy. Going to try doing it in The fermentor next time
 
Just brewed this a week ago. However, I ran out of Amarillo for dry hopping. Plan to dry hop at day 10 for 5-7 days then cold crash to keg. Can I substitute w/ 2oz of Cascade and Cent? Thoughts?
 
You may want to let it go more than 10 days in primary. Give those yeasties a chance to clean up after themselves and floc out, then drop your dry hops in. 2oz each cascade and centennial should get you in the ballpark.
 
Now you tell me! :) Your probably right, I may have rushed it especially when the ABV was higher than it should be. Next batch!
 
The only way to match the attenuation a commercial brewery gets is to use pure O2, pitch a large starter, and heat the wort after primary fermentation starts to slow down. On a homebrew scale a small amount of dextrose (0.5 lb) in lieu of malt will help.
 
Heat after? .5 dextrose? Can you elaborate more and provide an example. Understood and agree on the O2 and large starter.
 
Now you tell me! :) Your probably right, I may have rushed it especially when the ABV was higher than it should be. Next batch!


I'm sure it's totally fine even with the short primary, and hey, the bump in ABV is just icing on the cake :) Give us an update once you've had a chance to sample
 
It's been in the keg a week. Tried a sample. It could be close but it's not smooth yet (still has a pronounced bite) so it's hard to tell. I plan to wait another week or two for it to settle before comparing with an actual Peeper.
 
I brewed this the other day so figured I would add my experience to the thread. I followed Daniel's recipe and process as best I could, with a few unintentional changes:
- My mash temp was more like 148 and I chose to shut the lid and walk away rather than fuss with it.
- I actually dry hopped with 9 oz, 4.5 of each, because I apparently struggle with reading comprehension. We will see how much this affects the beer. If anything I've certainly wasted ~$10.

As of writing this I am on day 3 of dry hopping. I got excellent attenuation and was down to 1.009 (see: mash temp). That being said the beer had a noticeable sweetness out of primary, albeit a hoppy/bitter aftertaste. It actually is reminiscent of tasting wort. I'm hoping this goes away when cold/carbed. I've never seen this on a 1.009 FG beer, but the whirlpool hop method certainly has be worried. I definitely stayed well above 175 for 30 min prior to chilling.

I'll post my final results in a week or so when it's pouring. Big thanks to others before me who researched and documented this.
 
Ironically, I am also making my second batch of Peeper and on day 3 of DH. Plan to cold crash on Sunday night.
My FG was 1.01 and your right, there was sweetness and hoppy/bitter aftertaste after primary was complete. My wife said it seems like an IPA!

But like most Ales, a few weeks conditioning in the keg is needed before you really want to judge and compare to an actual Peepers to let things mellow out.
 
so I'm very happy with my final results. I've done 2 separate side by sides with actual Peeper. the first took place 1 week after kegging and the beers were noticeably different. my version was cloudier and the hop character was fresh, raw, and much more citrusy. the beers also looked different as mine was very cloudy and MBC's was clear.

so I decided to add gelatin to the keg, and sure enough after doing so the beer is very similar to peeper. appearance and aroma are spot on. mine still has more hop flavor and is more citrusy but not off by much.
 
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