Low Efficiency, Could it Be PH?

[aceofspades9911]

Hi All,

First of all, thanks for the awesome resource this forum provides.

Over the past few months I've been obsessively researching home brewing, with books, this forum as well as others and podcasts (Basic Brewing, the Jamil Show and Brew Strong).

I'll give some details below, but to save those of you who don't want to read it all: I got a BH efficiency of 51% on my first brew, is there a general water build for either RO water or spring water purchased from a grocery store that would eliminate PH as a variable for poor efficiencies with the no sparge BIAB method?

Last week, I brewed my first beer, a variation of the peach cobbler ale featured in Brooklyn Brew Shop's book (I say variation because I made substitutions based on what my LHBS had available). I scaled the recipe to 3 gallons and used the full volume BIAB method. Long story short, my OG came out to 1.046 when according the beersmith it should have been 1.059, my efficiency based on the grain bill came out to 51%.

After reading many articles on efficiency, I plan to change two things for my next brew: I found the thermometer I was using for my first brew was reading 6°f low so I bought a new one which I'll verify is accurate. Being new to this, I don't know if my grind was correct but I ran the grain bill for my next brew through the grinder twice at my LHBS. For my last brew, I used the grocery store brand "purified water with minerals added for taste." At some point I'd like to buy a filter for my tap water to use, but until then I'll be using RO water from the grocery store water filter or bottled water of some kind based on the recommendations here.

In addition to the recommendations about grind and making sure the mash is within saccharification temps, I ran across a thread discussing how PH can be more of an issue with BIAB due to the higher water to grist ratio. After spending the past few hours reading about water chemistry, my head is swimming a bit. I've read tips for additions to of cacl, gypsum and acid malt, but I don't have a ph meter to fine tune these additions and at this point I'm still trying to figure out what the different types of hops taste like. Adding water building compounds to taste is far beyond what I'm ready for so I'm wondering if there is a combination of RO or distilled and spring water and water building compounds that will get me close enough to not have to worry about PH effecting my efficiency.

 

[Iseneye]

Hi All,

First of all, thanks for the awesome resource this forum provides.

Over the past few months I've been obsessively researching home brewing, with books, this forum as well as others and podcasts (Basic Brewing, the Jamil Show and Brew Strong).

I'll give some details below, but to save those of you who don't want to read it all: I got a BH efficiency of 51% on my first brew, is there a general water build for either RO water or spring water purchased from a grocery store that would eliminate PH as a variable for poor efficiencies with the no sparge BIAB method?

Last week, I brewed my first beer, a variation of the peach cobbler ale featured in Brooklyn Brew Shop's book (I say variation because I made substitutions based on what my LHBS had available). I scaled the recipe to 3 gallons and used the full volume BIAB method. Long story short, my OG came out to 1.046 when according the beersmith it should have been 1.059, my efficiency based on the grain bill came out to 51%.

After reading many articles on efficiency, I plan to change two things for my next brew: I found the thermometer I was using for my first brew was reading 6°f low so I bought a new one which I'll verify is accurate. Being new to this, I don't know if my grind was correct but I ran the grain bill for my next brew through the grinder twice at my LHBS. For my last brew, I used the grocery store brand "purified water with minerals added for taste." At some point I'd like to buy a filter for my tap water to use, but until then I'll be using RO water from the grocery store water filter or bottled water of some kind based on the recommendations here.

In addition to the recommendations about grind and making sure the mash is within saccharification temps, I ran across a thread discussing how PH can be more of an issue with BIAB due to the higher water to grist ratio. After spending the past few hours reading about water chemistry, my head is swimming a bit. I've read tips for additions to of cacl, gypsum and acid malt, but I don't have a ph meter to fine tune these additions and at this point I'm still trying to figure out what the different types of hops taste like. Adding water building compounds to taste is far beyond what I'm ready for so I'm wondering if there is a combination of RO or distilled and spring water and water building compounds that will get me close enough to not have to worry about PH effecting my efficiency.

In the brew science forum there is a sticky for very basic water adjustments with RO. If you do what's in the sticky you won't go far wrong.

In terms of efficiency look at crush and stirring grains at mash in. Also make sure you are mashing at right temp (which sounds like you are working towards)

 

[FunkedOut]

Also, track your mash efficiency in addition to your BH efficiency.
BH efficiency includes other variables that if not modeled right in BeerSmith can really make a big difference especially in small batches.

Make sure your measurements are accurate; volume, gravity, weights and temp.

I can’t imagine your 51% number is due to pH. I bet you have gremlins elsewhere.

 

[RM-MN]

Hi All,

First of all, thanks for the awesome resource this forum provides.

Over the past few months I've been obsessively researching home brewing, with books, this forum as well as others and podcasts (Basic Brewing, the Jamil Show and Brew Strong).

I'll give some details below, but to save those of you who don't want to read it all: I got a BH efficiency of 51% on my first brew, is there a general water build for either RO water or spring water purchased from a grocery store that would eliminate PH as a variable for poor efficiencies with the no sparge BIAB method?

Last week, I brewed my first beer, a variation of the peach cobbler ale featured in Brooklyn Brew Shop's book (I say variation because I made substitutions based on what my LHBS had available). I scaled the recipe to 3 gallons and used the full volume BIAB method. Long story short, my OG came out to 1.046 when according the beersmith it should have been 1.059, my efficiency based on the grain bill came out to 51%.

After reading many articles on efficiency, I plan to change two things for my next brew: I found the thermometer I was using for my first brew was reading 6°f low so I bought a new one which I'll verify is accurate. Being new to this, I don't know if my grind was correct but I ran the grain bill for my next brew through the grinder twice at my LHBS. For my last brew, I used the grocery store brand "purified water with minerals added for taste." At some point I'd like to buy a filter for my tap water to use, but until then I'll be using RO water from the grocery store water filter or bottled water of some kind based on the recommendations here.

In addition to the recommendations about grind and making sure the mash is within saccharification temps, I ran across a thread discussing how PH can be more of an issue with BIAB due to the higher water to grist ratio. After spending the past few hours reading about water chemistry, my head is swimming a bit. I've read tips for additions to of cacl, gypsum and acid malt, but I don't have a ph meter to fine tune these additions and at this point I'm still trying to figure out what the different types of hops taste like. Adding water building compounds to taste is far beyond what I'm ready for so I'm wondering if there is a combination of RO or distilled and spring water and water building compounds that will get me close enough to not have to worry about PH effecting my efficiency.

For the pH to be a cause of low efficiency it would have to be drastically off, like using lye water or concentrated acid. The crush of the grain is the most often cause of low efficiency and it comes from a LHBS that sets their mill so coarse that nobody gets a stuck mash or sparge. If you want to have good efficiency, milling twice will help. If you want excellent efficiency, buy a mill that you can set to your liking. Corona type mills work very well for BIAB and are quite cheap.

 

[dmtaylor]

It's the crush. It's almost always the damn crush. Get your own mill.

 

[Soulshine2]

"Last week, I brewed my first beer, a variation of the peach cobbler ale featured in Brooklyn Brew Shop's book (I say variation because I made substitutions based on what my LHBS had available). I scaled the recipe to 3 gallons and used the full volume BIAB method. Long story short, my OG came out to 1.046 when according the beersmith it should have been 1.059, my efficiency based on the grain bill came out to 51%."
Can you give more details - what was your actual grain bill, mash temp, mash time, preboil volume and maybe most importantly - what were your substitutions? How did you scale the recipe to 3 gallons? Every time I see someone new try to scale a recipe down , something goes wrong and its usually due to a scaling down mistake.
I'll suggest this every time, when brewing for the FIRST time, just run a recipe out as it is written .If it was for a 5 gallon batch , run the full 5 gallon recipe,verbatim. Do NOT try to change anything until you get the basic procedure down FIRST.

 

[aceofspades9911]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm hoping its just the crush or the temps. I just wanted some opinions so I don't end up chasing my tail with other things if its the PH, but if PH won't cause efficiencies to be that drastically low, then I'm happy investigating other issues. There were definitely other gremlins in the process, temperature being the most noticeable. I kept the mash temps between 150f and 144f (but with the faulty thermometer, they were actually 138 to 144) by raising the bag off the bottom of the kettle (while keeping it immersed in the wort) and turning the stove back on. I had to do this 4 times over the 60 minute mash. This will be corrected with a new thermometer next brew session.

I read the baseline recommendations in the water chemistry primer, I just wanted to see if that needed to be adjusted for full volume mashes. If not, I'll give that a try and see what happens.

At some point, I'll buy a mill, but I'd like to get some sort of fermentation temperature control before.

My grain bill was:
2.4 LBS Golden Promise
1.8 LBS Biscuit Malt
1.2 LBS of Caramel 20
0.45 LBS Flaked Oats

In addition the recipe called for 6 roasted peaches peeled and halved and 2 cups of brown sugar to be steeped in the wort for 20 minutes immediately after the boil before cooling.

I did a full volume mash with 4 gallons and six cups of water.

I scaled the 5 gallon recipe by multiplying the volumes of all the ingredients by .6 to get my to a 3 gallon batch. Maybe there are some other considerations to make when scaling, but I took my efficiency numbers from beer smith based on the 3 gallon grain bill, so I could see the substitutions or scaling causing other issues but the efficiency numbers should be correct right?

 

[Oginme]

OK, so let's start with your recipe. Waaay too much specialty malts in your grain bill. They will contribute only a fraction of the sugars your base grain will give you once mashed. Your base malt (Golden Promise) is only 41% of the grain bill and it should be almost double that or higher. You have 31% Biscuit malt and 21% Caramel 20! Biscuit is usually recommended at a rate of 3% to 15% of the grain bill; Caramel 20 up to around 15%.

So part of your problem is too many specialty malts which are already converted and limited in the amount of sugars they will release to the wort.

So, before you look at water chemistry, the latest trend in distraction from actual problems, I'd do some research into building recipes and look at the grind of your grist.

As dmtaylor stated above, it is almost always the grind when it comes to BIAB and efficiency. When it comes to low efficiency with BIAB, the first five answers of the top ten answers are always check the grind of your grain.

 

[dmtaylor]

Wow. Recipe is very unusual. Not much base malt there, not much enzymes. That's likely an even bigger issue than your crush. And mash pH was probably down around 5.1 or less, which is super low, based on the high amount of specialty grains which reduce pH, so that could have also been a factor.

Next time go with tried & true recipes and not something like this. Base malt (in this case the Golden Promise) shouldn't be lower than about 75-80% of the total grist.

 

[Iseneye]

Holy crap that looks like a disgusting beer. No idea why a beginner would start with a complicated recipe. Pick a simple pale ale or bitter and get things right first.

 

[mongoose33]

This is an example of why I think newbie brewers should stick with extract for their first 2 or 3 brews before doing all-grain. Here we have a new brewer who didn't understand diastatic power of the grain, nor the role that crush has in efficiency.

aceofspades, I'm not stomping on you here--good on you for all your research and the learning focus prior to brewing. But even then, guess what? We can learn something here, and I'm sure you're learning a lot as well.

1. If you are going to do all-grain, stick to established recipes, which are established for a reason--they work. I know the temptation is to make something cool and maybe unique, but in the early stages of brewing, learning the process is more important than the recipe, IMO.

2. Temp of the mash matters.

3. The crush matters. Great advice above about double-crushing, but you can evaluate your crush by simply grabbing a handful and looking for intact kernels. If there are more than just a very few, then you have starch--potential sugar!--locked up in kernels where it will not likely be used. That lowers efficiency, obviously,

4. Grains are distinguishable by a number of variables, including diastatic power which is how much they have in the way of enzymes that can convert starch to sugar. Some have none, some have so much they can convert not only their own starch, but the starch of other grain too. This is why, initially, using established recipes is useful, as they already have accounted for the diastatic power of the grain.

5. Water matters. There are some who denigrate its role in brewing, but they assume an awful lot, usually starting with the idea that everyone's water and experiences will mirror their own. My water is mostly horrible for brewing most things, and I used it with no adjustment for my first 3 brews. No accounting for chlorine, no dealing with it being softened water that is still very hard--and it produced beer with the characteristic twang. Starting with RO water is a good choice, but there are adjustments you need to make to make it appropriate for the style you're brewing. I brewed yesterday and had 7.5 gallons of RO, 1 gallon of my tap water, a Campden tablet to take care of chlorine and deal with other issues, 1 gram of gypsum, 5 grams of Calcium Chloride, 5 grams of Epsom Salts, and one gram of Brewtan-B. No lactic acid yesterday, the recipe didn't need it to drop pH. And BTW, do not assume what I just wrote is applicable to you. It depends on the recipe, the size of the grain bill, and what's in my water that may or may not be in yours.

As @Iseneye notes above, there's a sticky that would help with this.

So--I hope you're even hungrier to learn about this. I get the sense from your post that you are exactly that. Just keep trying to get better and you will get where you want to go. Good luck!

 

[Soulshine2]

I think I would puree the peaches

 

[LittleRiver]

Make getting your own grain mill a priority. My efficiency took a huge leap when I started crushing my own grains.

 

[aceofspades9911]

Wow, awesome info.

This is an example of why I think newbie brewers should stick with extract for their first 2 or 3 brews before doing all-grain. Here we have a new brewer who didn't understand diastatic power of the grain, nor the role that crush has in efficiency.

aceofspades, I'm not stomping on you here--good on you for all your research and the learning focus prior to brewing. But even then, guess what? We can learn something here, and I'm sure you're learning a lot as well..

By all means, stomp away. We don't learn anything from compliments. And I agree, there's a lot to learn here and I'm excited to try again with this new info.

I ordered "Designing Great Beers" this evening, hopefully to get more familiar with which grain does what.

I plan to stick to established recipes, I thought I had done that here since I got this one from Brooklyn Brew Shops book. The only changes I made were to use Golden Promise instead of English Pale, and the recipe called for both Caramel 15 (which I have not seen anywhere) and caramel 20. Since my LHBS had caramel 20, I used the amount called for both 15 and 20 in the form of 20. Other than that, the proportions are all the same including the ratio of specialty to base malts- this isn't my attempt to create a new beer, just following a recipe as best as I could with what was available. Based on what I'm reading here, I'll look elsewhere for my next recipes. I scaled it to 3 gallons because that was the biggest batch size I could make on my stove without risking breaking the glass cook top. I borrowed a turkey fryer burner from a relative which I plan to use to make my next batch.

As I was plopping the halved peaches into the hot wort, I told my girlfriend I wish I would have picked a simpler recipe, so I agree with that sentiment expressed here.

For my next attempt I bought the grains for Jamil's Heffeweizen recipe found here https://byo.com/article/german-hefeweizen-style-profile/ I planned to bump the amount of German Pilsner and Wheat Malt from 4.85 to 5.5 LBS so I don't end up with beer flavored water if my efficiency is still lacking. I also substituted the Wyeast 3068 for Saffbrew WB-06 (again because that was what was available at my LHBS). Do you all think this would be a wise second try and are the modifications OK?

 

[mongoose33]

Wow, awesome info.


By all means, stomp away. We don't learn anything from compliments. And I agree, there's a lot to learn here and I'm excited to try again with this new info.

No stomping. People helped me when I started.

I ordered "Designing Great Beers" this evening, hopefully to get more familiar with which grain does what.

Again, no stomping. But look what you're doing. You've done one brew day, didn't work out, and you're going fast forwarding to "designing great beers." BTW, I have that book, and it did very little for me w/r/t learning to brew. On the other hand, books like Palmer's HTB, Experimental Homebrewing, Homebrew All-Stars, Malt, Hops, Yeast, Water--these I learned a ton from. Here's a link to my review of various books, YMMV: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/brewing-books-recommendation.650869/#post-8311708

My suggestion to you: brew a simple recipe. Develop the ability to make beer. THEN go on to doing more weird things. Making beer is simple, but it's not simplistic. IMO, what you should do is ask yourself where you want to be in 3 months or 6 months, then approach the learning process with that timeline in mind.

I plan to stick to established recipes, I thought I had done that here since I got this one from Brooklyn Brew Shops book. The only changes I made were to use Golden Promise instead of English Pale, and the recipe called for both Caramel 15 (which I have not seen anywhere) and caramel 20. Since my LHBS had caramel 20, I used the amount called for both 15 and 20 in the form of 20. Other than that, the proportions are all the same including the ratio of specialty to base malts- this isn't my attempt to create a new beer, just following a recipe as best as I could with what was available. Based on what I'm reading here, I'll look elsewhere for my next recipes. I scaled it to 3 gallons because that was the biggest batch size I could make on my stove without risking breaking the glass cook top. I borrowed a turkey fryer burner from a relative which I plan to use to make my next batch.

As I was plopping the halved peaches into the hot wort, I told my girlfriend I wish I would have picked a simpler recipe, so I agree with that sentiment expressed here.

Pick a recipe that has a base malt, simple hops, and a good yeast. Maybe a little crystal/caramel malt.

For my next attempt I bought the grains for Jamil's Heffeweizen recipe found here https://byo.com/article/german-hefeweizen-style-profile/ I planned to bump the amount of German Pilsner and Wheat Malt from 4.85 to 5.5 LBS so I don't end up with beer flavored water if my efficiency is still lacking. I also substituted the Wyeast 3068 for Saffbrew WB-06 (again because that was what was available at my LHBS). Do you all think this would be a wise second try and are the modifications OK?

<sigh> Don't modify. Choose a simple established recipe and brew it. Learn the process. IMO, recipe is important, but it is not as important as process. Learn the process.

 

[FunkedOut]

6 peaches and 2 cups of sugar will increase the gravity a good bit for a 3 gallon batch.
Did you measure gravity before or after those additions?
I bet the recipe gravity was for after the additions.

 

[RM-MN]

At some point, I'll buy a mill, but I'd like to get some sort of fermentation temperature control before.

Go for both. You don't need to spend a ton of money on either and both will drastically improve your brewing. Since you posted in the BIAB section, you can use a very fine milling. A Corona style mill works very well for that and shouldn't cost you more than $30.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/COKO-Man...5743&wl11=online&wl12=118653072&wl13=&veh=sem

Temperature control costs what you are willing to pay. It could be a simple tub of water with frozen bottled water dropped in. It could be a tub of water and a t shirt draped over the fermenter with the end in the water to wick it up for some evaporative cooling. It could be a walk-in cooler if you want to spend lots of money.

 

[dmtaylor]

You are on the right track. Designing Great Beers is an excellent book. It's how I first learned. It can work for you too.

 

[ProblemChild]

For starting out, here are some bullet comments that seem to crop up as constants...

Crush - get own mill. Crush is huge culprit in bad efficiency and needs to be controlled

Water - get Bru'n Water Spreadsheet. Also get the book "Water" (can find easy enough on Amazon) Learn water. R/O water or distilled water and the spreadsheet will get you in a good place without too much effort, but read the book as well so you understand what is going on

Recipe - start with SMaSH. Choose a lower IBU target - like less than 30. These recipes will use fewer hops but allow you to understand what the hops do and how they taste. It will also be a great starting point for growing the same base malt into a Pale, IPA, or whatever. Evolving from 100% base with with hop additions at 60, 20 and 2 to get targeted IBU's is a great start. Next - run the same batch again and swap out 5% of grist with crystal 40 (very pedestrian, but good reason for it) and note the difference. It seems like a slow start, but trust me when I tell you that it will change the way you look at what you are doing. You will also understand the workings of the flavors in your beer a great deal more. Not only will the grist taste difference, but the change in sweetness will affect the way the hops present themselves.

Yeast - not a problem. Start with the WY1056, WLP001, US-05 stuff. if liquid, keep it cold until brew day and follow destructions. These yeasts are basically the same (debatable) and will provide a little flexibility if temps are a little off.

Temp - find a way of keeping early stages (exponential growth) in the 60-70°F.

 

[kevin58]

There is one other thing to consider @aceofspades9911 and that is your profiles in Beersmith. Have you set up custom profiles or have you just picked one from the list of profiles that came in the software? Customizing the profiles will always give you better results.

Here are two equipment profile tutorials worth watching and one for BIAB mash profiles...

 

[aceofspades9911]

@mongoose33 , I didn't mean to imply I was planning on designing great beers for my next batch but the consensus of this thread is that the recipe I used is at least weird if not disgusting. I got it out of a published book and assumed it would be somewhat "established". I ordered the "Brewing Great Beers" book based on recommendations for information about grain proportions and figured I could use it to screen recipes I come across so I don't end up with another batch like this. I appreciate your input and will certainly look for recipes that follow the guidelines you suggested, which seem to be inline with the SMaSH recipes @ProblemChild recommended. Before I posted this thread I had bought the ingredients for a hefeweizen (which I picked because it has 3 ingedients and I enjoy them) so that'll be my second brew, I'll leave the recipe alone (accept for the yeast which I already bought) instead of trying to compensate for potential poor efficiency. (On a side note, if you all have a suggestion for an enjoyable low IBU AG SMaSH recipe I'm all ears).

@dmtaylor Thanks, glad to know the book wasn't wasted money

@RM-MN , I'll put the grain mill up near the top of the list of equipment to buy. I tried the swamp cooler with frozen water bottles and a wet t-shirt, unfortunately, I live in FL where the humidity is high so the evaporative cooling doesn't do much and its 90+ degrees outside and ac is expensive. Despite adding new frozen water bottles every 4 hours for the first 2 days, I couldn't get the carboy temp below 74 degrees. Now that the fermentation has slowed, its stabilized around 72.

@kevin58 , I played with the customied profiles based on boiling water in my new kettle, but the boil off rate was the only thing I changed. Thanks for the videos. I'll check them out and adjust accordingly.

Thanks again for all the great tips. I posted this to make sure water chemistry wasn't causing poor efficiency and learned so much more.

 

[mongoose33]

(On a side note, if you all have a suggestion for an enjoyable low IBU AG SMaSH recipe I'm all ears).

12# Maris Otter

1 oz Styrian Celeia 60 minutes
1.5 oz Styrian Celeia 10 minutes
1.5 oz Styrian Celeia at flameout

Using 8 gallons of RO Water, add 5 gr Calcium Chloride, 5 gr Epsom Salts, 1 gr Gypsum, 4 ml Lactic Acid.

Mash at about 153 for one hour.

Yeast: S-04.

Preboil gravity about 1.048-1.050, Original (Post-boil) gravity should be about 1.056-1.058, final gravity around 1.015-1.017, abv about 5.4%.

It's crisp, it's clean, it even presents in a way almost like a lager. Nice refreshing beer. Styrian Celeia is one of my favorite hops. If you can't get that, you can get Syrian Goldings, essentially the same thing.

 

[Bilsch]

Using 8 gallons of RO Water, add 5 gr Calcium Chloride, 5 gr Epsom Salts, 1 gr Gypsum, 4 ml Lactic Acid.

One off topic question if I may.. That seems like a lot of magnesium sulfate and I was wondering what your reasoning behind wanting such levels of Mg?

 

[mongoose33]

One off topic question if I may.. That seems like a lot of magnesium sulfate and I was wondering what your reasoning behind wanting such levels of Mg?

It matches some levels that are listed in EZWater that come from Palmer. I tried it, I like the way it turns out, and get some pretty good reviews from others.

I haven't done a lot of playing with water to try to alter flavor profiles. Some day, some day.

 

[dmtaylor]

Magnesium tastes like poison. I don't use it anymore.

 

[mongoose33]

Magnesium tastes like poison. I don't use it anymore.

OK. Won a small local comp w/ it in a Pils (LODO Pils, actually), and it's always used in my beers in various amounts. Had some great feedback on beers using it. Must be just a flavor thing for you, much like how I detest Mosaic hops in beer.

 

[dmtaylor]

OK. Won a small local comp w/ it in a Pils (LODO Pils, actually), and it's always used in my beers in various amounts. Had some great feedback on beers using it. Must be just a flavor thing for you, much like how I detest Mosaic hops in beer.

Mosaic is a horrible hop. I have 4 cats. I don't need to smell their pee more than once a day, much less put it in my mouth.

 

[mongoose33]

Mosaic is a horrible hop. I have 4 cats. I don't need to smell their pee more than once a day, much less put it in my mouth.

I hate to take this thread too much off topic but I sense it's run its course anyway.

If you have a recipe that calls for Mosaic, what hop do you substitute for it? I'm brewing a hazy little thing clone and the recipe called for Mosaic; first time I brewed it I cut the amount in half, but it still is too much for my taste. I'm brewing it again shortly and I'm cutting Mosaic out entirely. I'll already have Galena, El Dorado, Simcoe, and Citra in it. Should I just up those a bit or is there something that would serve in place of Mosaic?

 

[dmtaylor]

I hate to take this thread too much off topic but I sense it's run its course anyway.

If you have a recipe that calls for Mosaic, what hop do you substitute for it? I'm brewing a hazy little thing clone and the recipe called for Mosaic; first time I brewed it I cut the amount in half, but it still is too much for my taste. I'm brewing it again shortly and I'm cutting Mosaic out entirely. I'll already have Galena, El Dorado, Simcoe, and Citra in it. Should I just up those a bit or is there something that would serve in place of Mosaic?

Simcoe and Citra are very very similar. You can try those if you like them.

 

[ProblemChild]

. (On a side note, if you all have a suggestion for an enjoyable low IBU AG SMaSH recipe I'm all ears).

Just an idea how to proceed..... Recipe below is sound and tasty.

for the first 5.5 gal batch, start with 11.5lb Maris Otter, WY1056, and three ounces of a tasty high Alpha hop. Lets use Galaxy at 14% AA Use 0.25 ounce at 60 min, 0.75 ounce at 20 min, 1.0 ounce at 2 min, 1.0 oz dry hop for three days before packaging. The flavor will be all Galaxy, minimal used for bittering, but plenty of IBU's to meet a Pale Ale profile. (37 IBU)

On the next batch, save all that Galaxy and split between a 10 min addition and dry hop. Galaxy will still shine through, but the IBU will be 30% less, but all the glorious flavor of the Galaxy hop will still come through. (25 IBU)

On the third batch, do the same thing as the First batch, but switch a half-pound of Maris Otter with a half pound of Crystal 40.

Stick with a clean yeast for all trials. WY1059, WLP001, or US-05 is a great place to start.

 

[ProblemChild]

12# Maris Otter

1 oz Styrian Celeia 60 minutes
1.5 oz Styrian Celeia 10 minutes
1.5 oz Styrian Celeia at flameout

Using 8 gallons of RO Water, add 5 gr Calcium Chloride, 5 gr Epsom Salts, 1 gr Gypsum, 4 ml Lactic Acid.

Mash at about 153 for one hour.

Yeast: S-04.

Preboil gravity about 1.048-1.050, Original (Post-boil) gravity should be about 1.056-1.058, final gravity around 1.015-1.017, abv about 5.4%.

It's crisp, it's clean, it even presents in a way almost like a lager. Nice refreshing beer. Styrian Celeia is one of my favorite hops. If you can't get that, you can get Syrian Goldings, essentially the same thing.

This sounds stellar. Just recently used Celeia in a Saison. Great flavor in that one.