Lost some yeast, fermentation very slow. Any advice?

[Hjandersen]

Plus, the actual culture is much more pure than the dry yeast, meaning you can re-use that yeast more than you can with dry yeasts.

Could you give a reference here?

 

[insanim8er]

Could you give a reference here?

Some claim it's not good to pitch on dry yeast for various reasons. It's a debated topic...

 

[05m50dan]

I don't have any specific references to scientific journals or anything, but the process of drying the yeast is not completely sterile. That is why dry yeast has had such a bad reputation for so long. The processes have become significantly better, allowing less bacteria into the product, but it is not a completely pure source. This is what I have heard from people in the business, not my personal experience.
That said, the only craft brewery I have heard that uses dry yeast doesn't take it out as many batches as those that use liquid yeast.
That said, I've used Nottingham on 4 consecutive batches without problem. Just because it's not 100% pure, doesn't mean its unusable. The yeast cell count is so high it out-competes anything else. The problem is, bacteria reproduce much quicker than yeast do, and each consecutive batch has higher and higher bacterial counts.

 

[insanim8er]

I don't have any specific references to scientific journals or anything, but the process of drying the yeast is not completely sterile. That is why dry yeast has had such a bad reputation for so long. The processes have become significantly better, allowing less bacteria into the product, but it is not a completely pure source. This is what I have heard from people in the business, not my personal experience.
That said, the only craft brewery I have heard that uses dry yeast doesn't take it out as many batches as those that use liquid yeast.
That said, I've used Nottingham on 4 consecutive batches without problem. Just because it's not 100% pure, doesn't mean its unusable. The yeast cell count is so high it out-competes anything else. The problem is, bacteria reproduce much quicker than yeast do, and each consecutive batch has higher and higher bacterial counts.

Yeast deformity plays a big role in re-using yeast.

 

[05m50dan]

Yeast deformity plays a big role in re-using yeast.

I agree

 

[slickfish]

Yes

 

[insanim8er]

Vile is disgusting. Vial not vile!!!

Feel better?

 

[statseeker]

This is what happens when english teachers get on forums.

 

[Trippel-A]

So, here's an update. It took me a long time to actually implement Hjandersen's strategy, but I did before Christmas, and it worked. That said, it might have been OK without the US-05, rehydrated and acclimated to the wort, because SG had dropped to 1.017 before I pitched it. Anyway, the gravity is finally down to 1.015, apparent attenuation of 75%! I've racked it on top of the bourbon, oak cubes, and vanilla bean.

It actually didn't taste terrible before I did that, either, which was a bit of a surprise, as my expectations have dropped very low for this one. Maybe the US-05 cleaned it up a little. The smoky porter notes are starting to come through.

Thank you for all your help, and I'll post back with final tasting notes, eventually.

 

[Hjandersen]

So, here's an update. It took me a long time to actually implement Hjandersen's strategy, but I did before Christmas, and it worked. That said, it might have been OK without the US-05, rehydrated and acclimated to the wort, because SG had dropped to 1.017 before I pitched it. Anyway, the gravity is finally down to 1.015, apparent attenuation of 75%! I've racked it on top of the bourbon, oak cubes, and vanilla bean.

It actually didn't taste terrible before I did that, either, which was a bit of a surprise, as my expectations have dropped very low for this one. Maybe the US-05 cleaned it up a little. The smoky porter notes are starting to come through.

Thank you for all your help, and I'll post back with final tasting notes, eventually.

That's great! I'm looking forward to tasting notes. Don't forget to let it attenuate completely before bottling. Also cold crashing is (as always) a good idea!

 

[Trippel-A]

That's great! I'm looking forward to tasting notes. Don't forget to let it attenuate completely before bottling. Also cold crashing is (as always) a good idea!

To attenuate completely, I'm just going to have to let it go until it stops.

The original WL028 yeast: apparent attenuation 70-75% http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp028-edinburgh-scottish-ale-yeast

The Wyeast 1728: 69-73% apparent attenuation http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=143

The US-05 I'm finishing with: up to 81% attenuation http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SFA_US05.pdf

However, this thread demonstrates a wide variety of results with US-05. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/safale-us-05-attenuation-52146/

I've now added 16oz of bourbon, so I don't think I'll ever get an accurate measure of final apparent attenuation. But I'll keep taking gravity samples and bottle when it stops changing.

 

[Trippel-A]

That's great! I'm looking forward to tasting notes. Don't forget to let it attenuate completely before bottling. Also cold crashing is (as always) a good idea!

I bottle condition rather than keg. If I cold crash, will there be enough yeast remaining to carbonate and condition?

 

[RM-MN]

That depends on how long you cold crash. A couple days, no problem, a couple months, well probably not a problem but it's getting tougher to be sure.

 

[Trippel-A]

We bottled it today. Unfortunately there isn't much vanilla aroma. It could have largely evaporated by now. We'll see if more comes out when carbonated. There are some nice, sweet smoky flavors, and not sweet like unfermented wort. Sweet like bourbon. The US-05 probably gets the credit for this. Despite the sweetness, it's nice and dry. Very slightly smoky oaky.

SG was 1.012, but of course it now had 16oz of bourbon in it. I don't know the SG of Makers Mark, though I'm sure I could look it up. Maybe I will in order to back into the FG without the bourbon.

Est ABV before bourbon was 6.5%. If my math was right, adding the bourbon should have gotten it to about 7.4% or 7.5%.

I'll report back with final tasting notes after it's conditioned a bit.

 

[Trippel-A]

I tasted it. Not sure where the bourbon, oak and vanilla bean went... The aroma, unfortunately, is too much like that of other troubled dark extract brews we've tried. I don't exactly know how to describe it, but I surely recognize it. I used to think of it as an extract twang, but I'm starting to wonder if it has to do with our worst practices when it comes to yeast. Time to change that. Past time.

After getting past the aroma, the beer is pretty good. Dry, full-bodied, not quite boozy but definitely not a session beer. It's a decent robust porter.