Help with Malt Names

[Travis K. Jansen]

So, I've been looking through recipes and sometimes it mentions a malt that I can't match a name to at Northern Brewer. For instance, making a Belgian a few weeks ago, I needed a Belgian Pale Ale and Belgian Pilsner. Searching on NB's site provided a number of options, but through some advice from a friend on one of my FB groups, he told me to go with Dingemans. I then proceeded to head to the store and of course they didn't have it labeled as Dingemans. I figured out it was just the Belgian Pale Ale Malt and Belgian Pilsner Malt.

Thus, I decided to write down every malt they had in the grain room as it was labeled (the list is listed in the spoiler section of this post).

I'm faced with the problem again because I want to brew a Zombie Dust clone that calls for:

Pale Malt - 2 Row
NB has "MaltEurop American 2-row pale Malt" but I don't know if that's right.

Vienna Malt
NB has "German Vienna Malt." Is that the same thing?

Caramel Malt (20L)
I'm guessing Briess Caramel 20L

Melanoiden Malt
Weyermann Melanoidin

Munich Malt
NB has "German Munich" and "Belgian Munich" Either will work? Or try the Bonlander?

CaraPils
I didn't find this one there. I'm guessing maybe "Belgian Caramel Pils Malt."

Long story short, is there a good way to help a relative newbie identify what malt a recipe is looking for, or what they match up as? And, if there are two malts that match the name, I'm guessing style is the only way to really determine if they meant German or American or whatever.

Note, the first two I had a glare on my camera when I took a pic of the shelf, so I couldn't see the full name

??? Black Malt
????? Pale ale Malt
Belgian Aromatic Malt
Belgian Biscuit Malt
Belgian Caramel Pils Malt
Belgian Caramunich Malt
Belgian Caravienne Malt
Belgian Debittered Black Malt
Belgian Munich Malt
Belgian Pale Ale Malt
Belgian Pilsner Malt
Belgian Special B Malt
Briess 2-Row Brewers malt
Briess Blackprinz Malt
Briess Bonlander Munic Malt
Briess Caramel 20L
Briess Caramel 80L
Briess Cherrywood Smoked Malt
Briess Midnight Wheat Malt
Briess Pale Ale Malt
Briess Pilsen Malt
Briess Rye Malt
Briess Special Roast
Briess Victory
British Golden Promise
Canada Malting Pale Ale Malt
Crisp Amber Malt
English Brown Malt
English Choclate Malt
English Dark Crystal
English Extra Dark Crystal
English Maris Otter
English Medium Crystal
English Roasted Barley
Fawcett Oat Malt
Fawcett Pale Chocolate
Fawcettet Optic Malt
Flaked Barley
Flaked Maize
Flaked Oats
Flaked Rice
Flaked Rye
Flaked Wheat
Gambrinus Honey Malt
German Munich Malt
German Pilsner Malt
German Vienna Malt
MaltEurop American 2-row pale Malt
Rahr 2-Row Malt
Rahr 6-Row Malt
Rahr Pale Ale Malt
Rahr Premium Pilsner Malt
Rahr Red Wheat - Malted
Rahr Unmalted Wheat
Rahr White Wheat Malt
Simpsons CaraMalt
Simpsons Golden Naked Oats
Torrified Wheat
Warmister Floor Malted Marris Otter
Weyerman Barke Pilsner Malt
Weyermann Acidulated Malt
Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner
Weyermann CaraAmber
Weyermann CaraAroma
Weyermann Carafoam
Weyermann Carahell
Weyermann Caramunich I
Weyermann Caramunich II
Weyermann Caramunich III
Weyermann CaraRed
Weyermann CaraWheat
Weyermann Chocolate Rye
Weyermann Dark Munich Malt
Weyermann Dark Wheat
Weyermann Dehusked Carafa I
Weyermann Dehusked Carafa II
Weyermann Dehusked Carafa III
Weyermann Melanoidin
Weyermann Oak-Smoked Pale Wheat Malt
Weyermann Pale Wheat
Weyermann Rye Malt
Weyermann Smoked Malt

 

[mongoose33]

There are several malt comparison charts out there that you can use. You're mostly there, 2-row is just standard 2-row brewer's malt, forms the foundation for the beer.

https://www.brew.is/files/malt.html

https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/homebrew-malt-comparison-chart.html

http://www.kotmf.com/articles/maltnames.php

There are also substitution charts for hops, just google 'em.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

I'll check these out, thank you. For someone who doesn't know malts that well yet, you can see how it'd be confusing. The recipe says Pale Malt - 2 Row, and you said 2-row Brewers Malt...it's the word Pale that threw me off. I didn't know that 2-row Brewers Malt is considered pale. This is one area of homebrewing I have a strong desire to learn. I feel like I've got a great grasp of most other things.

 

[jekeane]

Different vendors carry different maltsters (brand names). Each maltster has a different name for similar products particularly when it comes to specialty malts.

Often you will want to use region specific malts when brewing certain styles but there are usually domestic or international malts that are similar.

https://www.brew.is/files/malt.html Is a popular substitution chart that is relatively accurate. I do find that there are subtle difference in many of the specialty malts personally but you will be fine picking a substitute in most cases.

 

[Kent88]

Looks like your recipe gave more generic names, and you're looking at specific varieties made by certain maltsters.

Briess and Weyermann are just the companies doing the malting.

Pale 2-row is pretty generic.

The rest is just where the malts come from, but they're all mostly similar no matter where they're from.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

So when it calls for a Munich Malt and NB has Belgian and German varieties, there won't be much of a difference? Since I'm brewing a Zombie Dust which sites in the Pale Ale/IPA scale, I'm not sure which style I'd choose.

There's also a Bonlander, which the website says is an American munich. Maybe that's the style I need.

 

[RM-MN]

You aren't confused enough. Your recipe called for pale malt. Well, any light colored base malt is pale but there are at least 4 variations on that. Pilsner malt is very pale. Next is brewers malt, followed by pale malt, and finally pale ale malt. Any of these would probably be fine in your recipe, only differing a slight amount in flavor and the color index.

There are so many confusing names for varieties of malted barley that someone should get all the maltsters in a row and give each one a good kick. There is no real reason why Crystal and caramel malts are used as names. Crystal is trademarked.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. Guess it's just something I'll learn with time. In the meantime, at least I have a great place to ask these questions

Munich Malt
NB has "German Munich" and "Belgian Munich" - Either will work? Or try the Bonlander?

CaraPils
I didn't find this one there. I'm guessing maybe "Belgian Caramel Pils Malt."

Was I correct on these two?

 

[chezhed]

As a good place to start, might I suggest purchasing the book MALT: A Practical Guide.... https://www.brewerspublications.com...alt-a-practical-guide-from-field-to-brewhouse

FYI....the specs below are for first a regular 2-row malt and second a particular variety of Pale 2-row malt. Both are from the same Maltster. Kind of confusing since the "Pale" is darker than the 2-row.....

• Color Range °L : 1.8 - 2.2
• Target Color °L : 2
• Moisture % : 4
• Protein Total % : 12.5
• Extract FG Dry : 81
• Max Usage Rate % : 100
• Diastatic Power : 135

• Color Range °L : 2.6 - 3.0
• Target Color °L : 2.8
• Moisture % : 4
• Protein Total % : 12.5
• Extract FG Dry : 80
• Max Usage Rate % : 100
• Diastatic Power : 135

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

I think I'll have to automatically trust you just because it looks like you're a packer fan. From a guy named chezhed to a guy with a Packer tattoo on his left arm and a season ticket holder, I think we've got something in common

 

[seabrew8]

Don't sweat the different malts to much. They are basically different colours, pilsners being the lightest of the base malts and munich the darkest.

Sure if you get into this hobby a lot you can learn more has you go. I finally have sack of german pilsner malt coming from best maltz. I don't expect anything significant.

"Pale ale malt" AKA Maris Otter is the base malt that is darker then both basic 2-row and pilsner. That said three of them are 2-row malts lol.

 

[chezhed]

I think I'll have to automatically trust you just because it looks like you're a packer fan.

Of course! As I tell people,....worse than a fan; I'm an owner----fourth generation.

And when you read English 2-row malt, look for something like the Pale Malt above....

 

[seabrew8]

This is actually a good visualisation.

http://www.bestmalz.de/en/our-malts/base-malts/

Not sure why melanoidin is there.

 

[chickypad]

I don't think anyone answered your last question but the Belgian caramel pils I've used before was 8 L, a light caramel malt. That would be closer to crystal 10. Carapils is the trademarked name for Briess's dextrine malt - very light in color like 1.5 L used for body and head retention without adding flavor and color. I'm surprised NB wouldn't have that in stock, but for a sub you could look for something labeled as dextrine malt, and it should be that color range. I think Weyermann's version is called carafoam. For that matter you can also leave it out and use something like a little wheat for body and head retention.

For the Zombie dust clone I would go with any of those Munich malts. If you were trying to make an authentic version of a German style on the other hand, you'd probably want to go with German Munich. So it kind of depends on the situation.

In general the lovibond ratings should help you. As people have already pointed out the term "pale" is probably the most confusing, but it gets easier if you check the color rating. Most domestic maltsters use "pale ale" to signify their slightly darker base malt in the 3-4 L range (more like British pale malt). The lighter base malts in the 1.7-2.2 range can be called a whole host of things like 2 row, brewer's malt, pale malt - or any combo of those. So easier if you go by the L rating.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

I'm surprised NB wouldn't have that in stock, but for a sub you could look for something labeled as dextrine malt, and it should be that color range. I think Weyermann's version is called carafoam. For that matter you can also leave it out and use something like a little wheat for body and head retention.

Thanks for answering, Chickypad. Here's the other thing that's confusing. Their website has it:
https://www.northernbrewer.com/briess-carapils-malt

But I looked at all the buckets they had in the grain room and wrote down the names and Carapils wasn't on there...

 

[chickypad]

Is it possible they had it individually packaged in smaller amounts somewhere? Most people don't buy it in bulk because it's generally used sparingly. I never buy it because I sub in other things but I think my LHBS has it off to the side in smaller bags as they do with things like acid malt, flaked grains, etc. The rest of the grains are in tubs that you measure out yourself.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Ok, I'll probably ask them where to find it when I'm there...

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

I'm guessing they have it somewhere because the NB recipe for "Zombie Dust" includes it too:

10.5 lbs Rahr 2-row
-- 1.5 lbs Munich malt
-- 0.5 lbs Carapils
-- 0.5 lbs Medium Crystal

 

[seabrew8]

I'm guessing they have it somewhere because the NB recipe for "Zombie Dust" includes it too:

10.5 lbs Rahr 2-row
-- 1.5 lbs Munich malt
-- 0.5 lbs Carapils
-- 0.5 lbs Medium Crystal

11lb 2row or pils
1.5lbs of munich 10L
0.5lbs crystal 60L

You could add 0.5lb of wheat malt.

 

[chezhed]

Just to further confuse you....Carapils in Germany is a trademarked name from Weyermann for a slightly different version. So now you have to know whose carapils you are talking about.
In the USA, carapils usually refers to Briess version used just as chickypad said. Personally, I prefer carafoam in place of any carapils but that is just me...

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Just to further confuse you....Carapils in Germany is a trademarked name from Weyermann for a slightly different version. So now you have to know whose carapils you are talking about.
In the USA, carapils usually refers to Briess version used just as chickypad said. Personally, I prefer carafoam in place of any carapils but that is just me...

Thanks everyone, love this place. I'm drowning in malt theory right now

 

[eric19312]

I've been doing this for a while and got into it the other day with owner at LHBS.
I asked for 3 sacks of 2-row. Owner sent the kid to the basement and he came back with 3 sacks of Crisp Best Ale Malt.
I then said I was expecting you to bring up the Briess Brewers Malt that I usually get.
That earned me a long lecture from the owner regarding how almost all the base malt out there including all Maris Otter and the virtually all of the available Pilsners are 2-row.

Am I wrong that when I read a recipe here and see 2-row I automatically think the author meant domestic 2 row base malt with expected color around 1.8 lovibond? Note I have had issue before same guy doesn't understand difference between Pale Malt and Brewers Malt and once sold me a sack of Muntons Marris Otter blend that was only 50% Marris Otter. I normally make my own Marris Otter blends typically 70/30 with (lol domestic) 2-row and was annoyed to have to figure out the math on that and also to pay the extra coin for MO but only get half MO.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

My head is spinning.

 

[Minky]

One of the local newbie brewers started a homebrew store about 12 years ago, and was similarly unfamiliar with the differences between various types of malt. One of the guys in the homebrew club was putting together a recipe that called for pilsener or pils malt. The store was out of pilsener malt and substituted it with carapils. Needless to say, that beer would have been a complete failure if the mistake had not been noticed.

So, be sure that you know the difference between a base malt, which provides the bulk of the fermentables and the enzymes necessary for conversion, and a specialty malt which provides flavor, color, and mouthfeel.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I call mine "son of a *****"

I'm gonna grind the sh*t out of you, you son of a *****
Get in the pot you son of a *****
Your gunna taste so good you son of a *****

 

[BEER-N-BBQ_BY_LARRY]

I'm faced with the problem again because I want to brew a Zombie Dust clone that calls for:

Hi Travis,

If you're referring to my Zombie Dust Clone Recipe from my YouTube Channel ( and and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/zombie-dust-clone.634565/, then:

Pale Malt - 2 Row
Briess 2-row Brewers Malt

Vienna Malt
Briess GoldPils Vienna Malt

Caramel Malt (20L)
Briess Caramel 20L

Melanoiden Malt
Weyermann Melanoidin

Munich Malt
Briess Bonlander MunichMalt 10L

CaraPils
Briess CaraPils (a dextrin malt)

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Indeed, I am. Thanks, Larry!

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Okay, while it might be true that the actual plant the barley comes from is basically 2row (and there's less often used 6row) the way a maltster treats it and where it is grown does effect the flavor. If you take a few raw kernels and chew them up or steep them, you likely can taste and smell (the steeped tea) the difference without having a trained palate.

When I'm looking for malt for a recipie, say a German style I'll spend a couple bucks extra for German malt. It makes sense especially with Nobel hops that don't overpower. For an American IPA Briess is fine. And, sometimes you need to substitute a similar malt for one LHBS doesn't carry, and your beer will be fine that way too.

 

[kh54s10]

To further confuse things. 2 row is a type of barley and 6 row is another.
2 row: There are 2 rows of the seeds.
6 row: There are 6 rows of the seeds.

They are used differently, and each Maltster will process them differently.

Almost all of the grains we use start from the 2 row barley. If they are kilned lightly you get a base malt. If they are kilned hot you get Black. And every variety in between.

It takes some learning. You need to learn how each works in a recipe and decide which suits the beer you are trying to make.

For instance Standard 2 row as a base malt SMaSH and Maris Otter in a SMaSH will make a light but quite different beer. The Maris Otter will have much more depth to the flavor.

The substitution guides help, experience and time will fill in the rest.

In the mean time using Domestic 2 row or Pale Ale Malt will make different beers but they will still be beer.

As you gain more knowledge of the different malts you can fine tune your beers.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

As you gain more knowledge of the different malts you can fine tune your beers.

That's my end goal here. I'd love to get to that point of knowledge. I'll get there.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

This is a very informative thread.

 

[Travis K. Jansen]

Agreed.

 

[Schlenkerla]

A little of topic...

You can make a lot of base and specialty malts from pale malt at home with a minimal investment. Specifically a large roasting pan exclusively for malt roasting and toasting.

I made a great brown ale from 100% pale malt. My grain bill was pale malt, amber malt and brown malt. I hot-smoked/roasted the brown malt with maple wood chunks. I oven roasted the amber malt. I also dried out the beer with some maple syrup right after the sparge.

See my signature for the link or use this.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/637254/