Looking for Advice Re: Pumpkin Stout

[Pappers_]

Looking for advice and ideas regarding making a pumpkin stout. I'm going to serve it out of a pumpkin at an event in October.

I found this information from Elysian about their Dark O' the Moon beer. I'm thinking of making two tinctures, of vanilla and cinnamon, and add them to taste at bottling.

http://www.elysianbrewing.com/elysian-beers/dark-o-the-moon/

Spookily Smooth and Chocolatey

STYLE
Pumpkin Stout

BODY
Medium to Full

TASTING NOTES
Pours dark as night with creamy tan head. A little smokiness on the nose with malty bittersweet chocolate and a little coffee with subtle earthy pumpkin and spices for an overall nice and creamy mouth.

MALTS
Great Western pale, Crisp 77° Crystal, Munich, Cara-Vienne, roasted, chocolate and Special B

HOPS
Bittered with Magnum and finished with Saaz and crushed cinnamon

SPECIAL
Pumpkin in the mash, kettle and fermenter

ABV: 6.5%

IBU: 20

AVAILABILITY
Fall Specialty — 22 oz bottles and Draft

 

[SpeedYellow]

The only reason to ever use pumpkin in a beer is for color, since it contributes no flavor. So in a stout, where you won't see the color, .... what's the point? And even assuming a "pumpkin flavor" does exist, all the other stuff in a stout would obscure it. I've heard friends mention this pumpkin stout idea, and I just don't get it.

 

[Pappers_]

Well, I've had pumpkin beers where you can taste the pumpkin. I've also had beers where the spices give the impression of pumpkin because we associate those spices with pumpkin pie. But pumpkin does have an subtle acorn squash and sweet potato like flavor.

 

[Yooper]

Well, I've had pumpkin beers where you can taste the pumpkin. I've also had beers where the spices give the impression of pumpkin because we associate those spices with pumpkin pie. But pumpkin does have an subtle acorn squash and sweet potato like flavor.

Yes, pumpkin has a "squashy" flavor and aroma.

I think this could be very good!

I'm not one who thinks "chocolate" and "pumpkin" sound good together, but if you are- maybe more coffee/chocolate malt for the roasty flavors instead of an acrid roast barley flavor could be more in line with that flavor.

I like the idea of 60L or 80L with special B as the crystal flavor, to balance the roast and "squashy" flavors. I'd go pretty easy on nutmeg/ginger/clove flavor until after the beer was finished and be more likely to use more cinnamon and add the other pumpkin pie spices later on to taste. Or rather, under taste, since sometimes it seems to get too strong with a bit of time.

 

[budbo]

I have made a few decent pumpkin ales and drank some great ones, Like any other fruit, Pumpkin will impart flavor into the beer, The balance is the tricky part, as Yooper mentioned pumpkin itself is a subtle flavor, The spices are what give the real impression. That said, pumpkin without the spices does not make a tasty brew. The Ginger, cloves, and Cinnamon, give the flavor, the pumpkin enhances and mellows them

 

[Pappers_]

Did I mention I'm serving it in a freakin' pumpkin!?!?!?!

 

[Pappers_]

Bumping for any additional insights, advice, recipes before I brew this week.

 

[govner1]

If you're really going to serve from a pumpkin I'd suggest some sort of liner/container inside the pumpkin to prevent contamination & unwanted flavored in your stout.

 

[illinibrew04]

Pappers,
I actually set out to try and clone this beer a few years ago based on the information that was provided on Elysian's site. I've never actually tasted it side by side with the Dark O' The Moon, but I can tell you that I haven't changed the recipe since, we've brewed it every fall, and it's a big hit. Here's the recipe just in case you're interested. For the spice, I actually made a tea per the notes from Gordon Strong below. I used 2 teaspoons of Penzey's pumpkin pie spice steeped in a cup of water that was boiled. I steeped the spices for 5 minutes and dumped the whole thing into the bottom of the keg. I then racked the beer on top of this tea. This recipe is for 6 gallons into the fermenter. If you have any questions please ask.

4.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 1.6 %
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 74.4 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.2 %
13.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.0 %
13.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.0 %
11.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 6 4.3 %
5.9 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.3 %
3.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.2 %
2.50 lb Pumpkin Pie Pumpkins (Mash 0.0 mins) Other 9 -
0.60 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 23.2 IBUs
0.60 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 1.3 IBUs
2.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124.21 ml] Yeast 13 -

Some info from Gordon Strong:

On Spices in pumpkin ale:
You can add them to the boil, but you have to be pretty confident in the levels since you won't be able to remove the spice. I tend to add them at knockout and let them steep for 5 minutes, then remove. More often, I make a tea out of them using boiling water poured over spices, letting them steep for 5 minutes, then straining. Then blend that to taste post-fermentation. I never use raw spices in the secondary; I hate the taste.

On pumpkin:
Yes, finding pumpkin in cans is hard out of season. You can make your own by roasting your own pumpkins but be sure to use the right ones. Use sugar/pie pumpkins. Cut in half, scoop out guts, roast on baking sheet at 350F for an hour, let cool, scoop out flesh. Pretty much how you treat any squash. My CSA box had pumpkins in it starting in July last year. I used them in a saag recipe, but I might save them for beer if the same happens this year.

 

[Pappers_]

If you're really going to serve from a pumpkin I'd suggest some sort of liner/container inside the pumpkin to prevent contamination & unwanted flavored in your stout.

The beer will be carbed in bottles, then poured into a cored out pumpkin with a tap in it. Fill the pumpkin, serve the beer, toss the pumpkin out, all within a day.

 

[Pappers_]

Thanks, this is really helpful. I was going to add any spices post fermentation, too, by making a tincture and adding to taste. Making a tea might get to the same point.

Thanks for the recipe, very helpful!

Pappers,
I actually set out to try and clone this beer a few years ago based on the information that was provided on Elysian's site. I've never actually tasted it side by side with the Dark O' The Moon, but I can tell you that I haven't changed the recipe since, we've brewed it every fall, and it's a big hit. Here's the recipe just in case you're interested. For the spice, I actually made a tea per the notes from Gordon Strong below. I used 2 teaspoons of Penzey's pumpkin pie spice steeped in a cup of water that was boiled. I steeped the spices for 5 minutes and dumped the whole thing into the bottom of the keg. I then racked the beer on top of this tea. This recipe is for 6 gallons into the fermenter. If you have any questions please ask.

4.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 1.6 %
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 74.4 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.2 %
13.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 5.0 %
13.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.0 %
11.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 6 4.3 %
5.9 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.3 %
3.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 8 1.2 %
2.50 lb Pumpkin Pie Pumpkins (Mash 0.0 mins) Other 9 -
0.60 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 23.2 IBUs
0.60 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 1.3 IBUs
2.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124.21 ml] Yeast 13 -

Some info from Gordon Strong:

On Spices in pumpkin ale:
You can add them to the boil, but you have to be pretty confident in the levels since you won't be able to remove the spice. I tend to add them at knockout and let them steep for 5 minutes, then remove. More often, I make a tea out of them using boiling water poured over spices, letting them steep for 5 minutes, then straining. Then blend that to taste post-fermentation. I never use raw spices in the secondary; I hate the taste.

On pumpkin:
Yes, finding pumpkin in cans is hard out of season. You can make your own by roasting your own pumpkins but be sure to use the right ones. Use sugar/pie pumpkins. Cut in half, scoop out guts, roast on baking sheet at 350F for an hour, let cool, scoop out flesh. Pretty much how you treat any squash. My CSA box had pumpkins in it starting in July last year. I used them in a saag recipe, but I might save them for beer if the same happens this year.

 

[zgreenside]

Thanks, this is really helpful. I was going to add any spices post fermentation, too, by making a tincture and adding to taste. Making a tea might get to the same point.

Thanks for the recipe, very helpful!

How did this turn out? I am going to make this either this weekend or next (well, my own recipe, but it is similar to yours since we are both basing it off Elysian's info) and was hoping to see how yours turned out and if there was anything you would change.

I do have one tip, if you're looking to get as close to the original as possible, skip the spice and go for just cinnamon. To be specific, Vietnamese Cinnamon. I know for a fact that is the only spice in the beer

 

[PatriciaPatterson]

Selecting a pumpkin for beer is similar to getting a good pumpkin for a pie. Methods for adding pumpkin can vary. Most brewers agree that the best flavour come out if pumpkin is cooked and caramelized. I enjoyed it having awesome and delicious food at Moon Thai Weston.

 

[zgreenside]

Selecting a pumpkin for beer is similar to getting a good pumpkin for a pie. Methods for adding pumpkin can vary. Most brewers agree that the best flavour come out if pumpkin is cooked and caramelized. I enjoyed it having awesome and delicious food at Moon Thai Weston.

That sounds like a good idea actually, might make for a pretty interesting (in a good way) and deeper pumpkin flavor! As far as I know though, inferring from what I've been told from a pretty reliable source, they use canned pumpkin for the Elysian Dark O The Moon. What kind of canned pumpkin though I am not sure and I'm not sure I can get that information