LHBS Manager Here...What Do You Want From The LHBS?

[akthor]

The LHBS I've been to had a mill but you had to mill it yourself. No charge.

 

[pshankstar]

The LHBS I've been to had a mill but you had to mill it yourself. No charge.

My LHBS has a mill, you weigh out your own grains and milk it and they still charge you $0.10/pound for milling it yourself.

I was just there today. Walked in and saw new hops from BSG there. But on the floor in little baskets. Thought they were selling old hops on sale to make room in the fridge (not a freezer). Nope it's new hops they have in. In the fridge they still have a lot of the old packaging hop union hops (1oz bags).

Told myself today I'll no longer buy hops from there unless it's dire. So don't do this OP.

 

[Horseflesh]

$0.10/lb is not much but man, I'd spend a million bucks on my own mill before I'd pay it. Not charging for milling feels friendly. That is how both of my shops operate.

 

[Dmlsys23]

When I order a grain mill at the end of June, I expect it to be there by the middle of February. Not the first time my LBHS's supplier had failed me and FB messaging my LBHS's owner just got me "I'm really sorry! I'll contact them tomorrow."

Do act like my LBHS and give me a full refund and the mill when it finally arrives

Do not act like my LBHS and let it get to that point. 8 months is insane.

 

[mashinary]

I have two near me, and both are great shops and I have no complaints. I feel pretty lucky really, and I should probably take them all beer, now that I think about it...

 

[Bobby_M]

$0.10/lb is not much but man, I'd spend a million bucks on my own mill before I'd pay it. Not charging for milling feels friendly. That is how both of my shops operate.

I guess I understand what you're saying but I'll give you my perspective as a shop owner. We have our mill in the loading dock area because I am trying really hard not to coat the entire shop (where we have black metal shelving) with a layer of dust that needs to be wiped down daily. Because of that, staff has to mill the grain so that is labor time consumed. Besides, I'm not crazy about letting customers operate a motorized mill with 2" rollers. We have a mesh guard on it, but people do stupid things sometimes.

There is a distinct cost difference between milling and not milling. I charge 2 cents per pound to mill.

I think what it really comes down to is what the total cost of a batch of grain. I only get $1.10 / LB for 2row, milled $1.15. My next closest competitor (geographically) gets $1.49. They also happen to charge $.10 more for milling, but even if they threw it in for free, would you shop there because they offer friendly free milling service?

 

[javert]

Every HBS I've ever been in the owners and/or employees always seem to have a snobby or holier than thou attitude. Every shop I've been to has always been great at making me feel stupid if I ask a question that apparently everyone should know the answer to.

That's certainly an issue, but after going to many shops where the employees are totally clueless about what they are selling and you actually have to tell them what goes with what, I prefer them to err on the side of knowing too much they may be arrogant.

Make absolutely sure that, besides basic manners, the employees at the counter know well the brewing process and have some passion for the process.

 

[Horseflesh]

I guess I understand what you're saying but I'll give you my perspective as a shop owner.

That's totally fair and I guess it is also fair to say I was exaggerating and wouldn't spend a million bucks on my own mill. Total cost out the door is pretty important! But the way things are priced also conveys they shop's attitude. For some reason, to me, that dime per pound is just enough to feel, well, like I am getting nickel-and-dimed. I understand it's a negligible expense compared to all the other expenses in homebrewing, it just feels bad!

Your 2 cents per pound, on the other hand, is low enough that I'd wonder why you're charging it at all. I'd pay it without complaint I guess, especially if I understood the total costs of all my options. But I'd also wonder why you just didn't raise the price somewhere between 1-2 cents and eliminate the extra line item.

My expectations have probably been shaped by my own shops, both of which have free DIY milling. If I was charged for milling when starting the hobby I might not feel this way.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

My LHBS offers a good selection of loose grains that you measure and mill yourself in-store (if you want, no charge). I did order a recipe pre-milled once, but I don't recall if they charged for the service. Always do it myself now though.
I buy everything but RO water at this store; yeast (multiple brands, liquid and dry), hops (foil packages in walk-in fridge room 1 oz pellet or 1 lb. whole). Honestly I don't look at the prices much...I need what the recipe calls for, so just buy it. The grains range from $0.99 to $1.99 a lb and they also sell by the ounce if they have it in bulk.
Otherwise a full selection of 1 lb bagged grain is there.
They also stock local Michigan malt and hops when available.
I haven't bought much equipment there but they have everything pretty much.
The staff never fails to come check on us (HB customers) to see if we have any questions or need any help.
My only complaint would be that their on-line store could be kept more to date. It's pretty bad so I don't even bother looking to see what they have in stock. Luckily I haven't had too many things I couldn't get, but a couple times had to make some subs.

 

[dirtybear7]

I have to ask why you think a value added service should be free? Weighing out grain in a bag takes 5 minutes. Milling it adds labor and machine costs. It saves you from having to buy your own mill. Another way to look at it is, why should people that take whole grain away have to pay the same amount as someone who gets it milled?

Simple courtesies, like not nickel and diming customers for milling grain is one way a small home brew business retains and creates repeat customers. The shop makes more money on recipe grains than bulk ones too. So you should in essence make it as easy as possible to buy grain "over the counter" as opposed to buying a mill and going bulk. I feel it is also better to let the customer scoop & weigh their own grain. Actually my current LHBS scoops and weighs the grain themselves. It creates an annoying bottle neck and wastes time an employee could be helping some one else. I have had to stand around waiting for the one employee to finish scooping and weighing the grain of who ever is in front of me. If you want to just buy one small item, get in and out, too bad, the one employee is busy. Once it is my turn, I have to tell the employee each grain I want, with the amounts I want. I have to hope they care enough to give me what and how much of what grain I'm looking for. My last LHBS (I moved) would let you get and weigh your own grains. Once they rung you up and confirmed your recorded weight was correct, they would then mill it for free. It is really just a small cost of doing business. Their weighing and milling only took an extra few moments.

 

[Horseflesh]

Can't imagine waiting for staff to handle my grain! That would drive me crazy even if there was no added cost.

 

[dirtybear7]

lol, but some of them are whiners. I managed a retail bicycle shop in college, and I loved the work, but there is no doubt that a certain small percentage of customers create more work and annoyance than they are worth. The key is to encourage them to shop elsewhere without pissing them off, lol.

I tried to think of some things I would want in an LHBS that my local shop (homebrewstuff in garden city ID) doesn't already do, and I couldn't think of any. They do the virtual sacks of grain for base malts so I can buy in bulk without the hassle, they stock lots, at reasonable prices, the staff brews, so they are reasonably knowledgeable, they have 10+ rotating commercial micros on tap so I can have a beer while measuring out grains, they seem to have pretty fresh yeast (oldest i've seen is 3 months or so from mfr date, but maybe I am buying the popular yeasts), they are open evenings, host the local homebrew club, exchange co2 tanks, and rent various kinds of specialty equipment.

I guess my only minor complaint is that their mill is adjusted a bit loose. My efficiency went from mid 60-s to high 70's when I got my own mill.

I have worked a lot of retail in my younger days too. It is true some customers are just straight up terrible. All part of having a retail store.

 

[kristiismean]

My local homebrew store is Growmasters in Gurnee
100 grains, 50 hop varieties, good yeast selection, Self serve your own grains.

great employees, great classes, 3 beers on tap (upgrading) and friendly knowledgeable 2 FULL TIME employees that brew, high to low end stock of hardware, support all grain, extract with the same level. don't make recommendations on just price, but on need.

Credits program, spend X get X back after spending X. it's like 10 for every 100.

Critique recipes, make you feel welcome, remember your name, friendly, owner is around, price matching.

anyone who is serious about owning a lhbs, take a trip. it's the one that is THRIVING,

 

[pshankstar]

Let me add this to the list. Today I needed more Star San. Looked online at my LHBS to see what the prices were and went to the store to pick some up. When I got there it was $5 more than their online price. When I asked them about price matching their online price I was told "Will you pay the shipping charges"? I didn't argue it and bought it since I needed it.

Now here's what irks me. Why are their prices different on some items and not others (online vs. store)? Also, why is it that they now have radio ads saying they will match any online prices since they are Western NY's largest hydroponics and home brew shop, yet they will not match their own prices? Unfortunately this is the only LHBS in the area. I guess from now on I will be looking more at online shops like Morebeer and Farmhouse.

I would say make sure your prices match online vs the store.

 

[Horseflesh]

So the store has physical and retail access, and prices inside the retail store can be more than prices in their own online store? And they won't price match themselves?

I am sure there are a lot of really excellent business reasons that it has to be that way ... but it doesn't make the end result any less irritating for the customer!

 

[pshankstar]

So the store has physical and retail access, and prices inside the retail store can be more than prices in their own online store? And they won't price match themselves?

I am sure there are a lot of really excellent business reasons that it has to be that way ... but it doesn't make the end result any less irritating for the customer!

Yes it's completely irritating! If she gave me a legitimate reason for the price difference I would have been ok with it but for the response I got I was just taken back. I didn't argue it b/c I needed Star San today but this was the last straw for me doing business there anymore. Unless I am in a pinch and can't wait for delivery times then I will go there, otherwise I'll look at other alternatives from here on out.

 

[Thorsbrew]

As for not matching online prices i've seen this in big box stores as well. Once bought a TV from best buy and needed an HDMI cable and it was like $30-$40 lol. I can get one off amazon for 9 bucks. They also said they dont match their online prices (really the only thing best buy is good for is TVs, and for that i wouldnt go anywhere else, i went through 3 tv's before i got one that was in good shape, they deliver it and take out the old, just DONT let them set it up for you!).

As for LHBS's i agree with much of what has been said. Obviously, its just retail 101. Respectful, knowledgeable, good prices, selection etc.

I'm pretty lucky to have (at least that i know of) 5 homebrew shops within an hours drive and 2 that i frequent. The one has great prices on bulk grains but a tiny shop with prices i wouldnt touch on everything else. The other has a much larger selection of stuff that i go to for everything else.

Sure would be nice to have one large shop that had all of that in one but i can't complain.

I guess that would be my one thing to say. Keep your bulk grain prices very low and competitive ($40-45 for sacks of 2 row, pilsner, wheat...tops) and still good on everything else.

 

[Bobby_M]

Can't imagine waiting for staff to handle my grain! That would drive me crazy even if there was no added cost.

It's a judgement call for sure. The staff handling grain is protection from having grain intermingled. You know, customer just added 2 pounds of crystal 80L to 10 pounds of pale but meant to get 20L instead. It hasn't been paid for yet so, whooops it all goes back into the pale bin or whatever other bin. I'm not saying all customers would do this or even .1% would. However, that .1% can make every bin questionable.

Convenience over quality control and vice versa. It's a big decision.

Yes, it slows things down when grain is being weighed out and milled. We highly encourage people to order ahead through the website. We also have grain order slips at the counter that can be filled out rather than dictating the bill to the employees.

 

[Horseflesh]

I see your point about bin contamination. Being able to order ahead is a pretty good compromise. I could totally live with that.

 

[dirtybear7]

It's a judgement call for sure. The staff handling grain is protection from having grain intermingled. You know, customer just added 2 pounds of crystal 80L to 10 pounds of pale but meant to get 20L instead. It hasn't been paid for yet so, whooops it all goes back into the pale bin or whatever other bin. I'm not saying all customers would do this or even .1% would. However, that .1% can make every bin questionable.

Convenience over quality control and vice versa. It's a big decision.

Yes, it slows things down when grain is being weighed out and milled. We highly encourage people to order ahead through the website. We also have grain order slips at the counter that can be filled out rather than dictating the bill to the employees.

I never thought of this, but people often do things I wouldn't. I also saw someone mentioned customers using the mill. A bad idea which sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. I've actually emailed my grain bill prior to going to my current LHBS. Not once have they had it ready to go once I've gotten there. Maybe my issue isn't with the system in place but the people running it. Maybe I'm just getting used to a new place. Thanks Bobby M. I love when I hear something new that makes me rethink my opinions.

 

[pepindavid]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but my "ideal" LHBS would allow me to make an online order, package it properly, and let me pick-it up at the store in a quick trip (during lunch time or in the evening). Since I planned my brewdays well in advance, as long as it's ready with what I want within 1-2 weeks I'd be happy. No searching around the store, no need to have every single thing available in the "public area" of the store, but no delivery fees or poor handling by carriers.

That would be the the ideal for me.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Yes it's completely irritating! If she gave me a legitimate reason for the price difference I would have been ok with it but for the response I got I was just taken back. I didn't argue it b/c I needed Star San today but this was the last straw for me doing business there anymore. Unless I am in a pinch and can't wait for delivery times then I will go there, otherwise I'll look at other alternatives from here on out.

I wanted to buy a bark collar from Petco and it was something like $40 online and $55 in the store. the store manager explained that online was a different profit center with lower cost (no store front, fewer employees, easier to process, etc - all of which I knew and understand).

The store manager matched their own price anyway.

I think your local was operating somewhat under this premise although it shouldn't matter, for them, if they sold it off the shelf or had a person pack and ship - unless they had a "handling fee" to make a few extra coins.

 

[pshankstar]

I wanted to buy a bark collar from Petco and it was something like $40 online and $55 in the store. the store manager explained that online was a different profit center with lower cost (no store front, fewer employees, easier to process, etc - all of which I knew and understand).

The store manager matched their own price anyway.

I think your local was operating somewhat under this premise although it shouldn't matter, for them, if they sold it off the shelf or had a person pack and ship - unless they had a "handling fee" to make a few extra coins.

If the employee had given me a response like that I would have understood and not felt so angry about it. But what irritates me even more is this store has recently started a radio commercial. On their radio commercial they say they will match any online pricing and will not be beat. Why can't they match their own online pricing then? I think that would irritate almost anyone.

 

[wapitiscat]

I wanted to buy a bark collar from Petco and it was something like $40 online and $55 in the store

Maybe get some of those bark collars for Bobby's customers misbehaving at the grain bins.

Todd

 

[Murphys_Law]

Maybe get some of those bark collars for Bobby's customers misbehaving at the grain bins.



Todd

It was one of those citronella spay collars. Citronella oatmeal stout, anyone!

 

[BigJoeBrew]

One of my biggest pet peeves of my local LHBS is that they charge you $.10/lb to grind your grain. I hate being nickel and dimed. Just charge a little bit more for your grains. Then another LHBS will let me bring in grains I have bought elsewhere and use there mill for free. Also, the one that charges, all grains are behind the counter, along with yeast and hops, and they are all over you right when you come in the door with tons of questions of why you are there. The one that has free grinding you measure out your own grain, and hops with their scales. They really leave you on your own unless you ask for help. When done I bring up my sack of grain and tell them what I have.

 

[asutke781]

One of my biggest pet peeves of my local LHBS is that they charge you $.10/lb to grind your grain. I hate being nickel and dimed. Just charge a little bit more for your grains. Then another LHBS will let me bring in grains I have bought elsewhere and use there mill for free. Also, the one that charges, all grains are behind the counter, along with yeast and hops, and they are all over you right when you come in the door with tons of questions of why you are there. The one that has free grinding you measure out your own grain, and hops with their scales. They really leave you on your own unless you ask for help. When done I bring up my sack of grain and tell them what I have.

I have two stores like this. One will occasionally come back and ask me what I am brewing, but other than that they leave me alone. If I feel like talking or asking a question I will, you don't need to hover.

Also to the earlier comment about the mill leading to a lawsuit, I believe (not a lawyer) a use at your own risk sign should suffice to CYA. I do wish America wasn't so litigious, it is ruining it for people with common sense.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have two stores like this. One will occasionally come back and ask me what I am brewing, but other than that they leave me alone. If I feel like talking or asking a question I will, you don't need to hover.

Also to the earlier comment about the mill leading to a lawsuit, I believe (not a lawyer) a use at your own risk sign should suffice to CYA. I do wish America wasn't so litigious, it is ruining it for people with common sense.

It's usually not the idiot that just made chopmeat of his hands that initiates the lawsuit. It's the wife.

 

[brick_haus]

I have to ask why you think a value added service should be free? Weighing out grain in a bag takes 5 minutes. Milling it adds labor and machine costs. It saves you from having to buy your own mill. Another way to look at it is, why should people that take whole grain away have to pay the same amount as someone who gets it milled?

Really? It should be free to encourage more (potential) customers to brew, and more often.
And I have a mill.
As a matter of fact, I have never been in a LHBS that charges to mill.

 

[Bobby_M]

The grain should be free too. That would bring in way more brewers.