Let's talk lagers...

[ohiobrewtus]

or more accurately, quasi-lagers or mixed beers.

I currently do not have the ability to technically 'lager' at cold temps for long periods of time, but there are a ton of lager styles that I'm itching to brew. Can I get away with using WLP810 and/or Wyeast 2112 with fermentation and 'lagering' temps at 64F?

I realize that these would still technically be lagers if I used one of these strains, but I have not used either. Would extensive time in secondary at 64F prove to give the same impact as traditional lagering at cooler temperatures?

Time is not a consideration, and these beers (at least initially) will not be entered into competitions.

Thoughts?

 

[WBC]

You can do anything you want when brewing as their are no beer police. You can brew with lager yeast at higher temperatures as long as you are close to the desired temperature but you will get more esters and a quicker fermentation. If you are too high you may not like the results. On the other hand if you are closer to 55F and do like the results then you can brew that way until you get better equipment to make lagers. You must practice very good sanitary practices as lagers can not hide off-tastes as well as ales can when lighter grains and hops are used.

 

[Grinder12000]

What would b the final results if you ferment at the correct temp BUT - can not actually "lager".

 

[Yooper]

I've used WLP810 at 62 degrees, for a California common, and it was fine. I don't really know that it was fruitier than other true lagers, but it was a typical clean tasting steam beer.

If I was in your shoes, I'd probably skip the lager yeast, and use a clean well attenuating ale yeast. I think you'd get better results. Even though pacman isn't available now, I've used that as low as 60 degrees and it's done great. I see that nottingham is supposed to go as low as 57 degrees. Cooler temperatures and neutral ale yeast strains might give you better results that a lager strain at a slightly too-high temperature.

Have you ever tried the "cream ale" blend yeast by White labs? White Labs Cream Ale Yeast Blend - WLAB080
The description says you get slight fruitiness from the ale yeast, and slight sulfury notes from the lager yeast. Maybe that's not going to give you what you want, but it's a thought.

I've used pacific ale yeast, california ale yeast wlp001, American Ale yeast 1056, so5, etc, all in the low 60s with sucess. Not really on purpose, but my house barely gets to 62 degrees from October-April. I've had great results- maybe too clean and crisp for some of my ales.

I'm thinking that lager yeast may just give you too much sulfur and esters at higher than typical lager fermentation temperatures.

 

[Evan!]

Kyle, as WBC said, you can do what you want...but fermenting a lager at 64 will give you a steam beer. It will be a very, very different beer than one fermented at 50. I've done both (a steam maibock, versus plenty of true lagers), and the ester production is the biggest difference. You just don't get the clean, crisp profile that you get from fermenting at cold temps. Furthermore, "lagering" at 64 doesn't give you cold enough temps to clear up the beer and drop out the particulate that gives you some ale-ish flavors.

I'll be sending you some of my recently kegged munich dunkel/bock that was probably the most "proper" lager I'd done up to that point (pitched cold), and even with such a malty beer, you'll notice the clean flavor profile and lack of esters. This has been the biggest difference I've noticed---so the short answer is no, regardless of how long you age it at 64, you're not gonna get the clean profile of a lager. It will certainly clear up if you leave it there long enough, and then keg it and leave it in your fridge for awhile, though.

I'd suggest trying out Papazian's Cry Havoc...

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Thanks for the input everyone. I pretty much knew the answer to this but wanted to get input from others. I'm doing a Baltic Porter with WLP810 that will ferment at 64F, so that's what got me thinking about this.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I have read that WLP036/WY1007 will produce a lager-like ale beer at 60*F if you pitch a boatload of yeast. I am trying this now, in fact. It's not that I can't lager, it's just that I don't like taking kegs out of my fridge to do it.