Let's talk about Foam Control drops (aka Fermcap)

[Homercidal]

Interesting tip. For any brewers that try this, make sure the pennies are actually copper (1981 or earlier).

But after that they were copper coated, right? So it should still work.

 

[JayInJersey]

I've been having some vicious blowoffs recently...well ever since I got my stirplate.

And you say this will help me?

I fill a 6G BB with 5.25G of wort. (I Really want a 7G BB)


I've read this will make my final more bitter...thoughts?

 

[Cliff897]

Actually, it tends to INCREASE head. Read the early parts of the thread to find out why.

Mili grazi

There are lots of people with the same reaction as you. If the added convenience of it (magic stuff) is not enough to outweigh your fear of the product, then obviously there is no reason to use it.

Indeed.

It is actually designed to NOT make it into your beer. This is clever stuff. On its own, it is relatively heavy and does not carry a charge, meaning that it won't dissolve in water. However, with a bit of agitation (e.g., a rolling boil or active fermentation), it gets stirred up and suspends in the wort/beer. That's when it does its magic. When activity calms down, it drops out. When you siphon or rack off your beer or wort, it stays behind in the trub.

So it's miscible in water, but not soluble? And heavier than water so it precipitates out of solution?

 

[FlyGuy]

So it's miscible in water, but not soluble? And heavier than water so it precipitates out of solution?

No, it is NEVER soluble in water. It can only be held in water by suspension.

 

[RegionalChaos]

But after that they were copper coated, right? So it should still work.

The inside of them is zinc. I don't think you would want to get any of that in your brew. Cut one open on a hack saw.

 

[Homercidal]

The inside of them is zinc. I don't think you would want to get any of that in your brew. Cut one open on a hack saw.

How much zinc is bad for you? Isn't it like a vitamin or something?

 

[RegionalChaos]

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ZI/zinc.html

http://cartwright.chem.ox.ac.uk/hsci/chemicals/zinc.html

I've seen punctured pennies that look full of white powder. It may not be that bad, but as a hobbyist metal worker, I hear a lot of people talk about NOT using zinc plated metal due to fumes that can burn off of it that can be very harmful.

 

[SupraSPL]

I've been having some vicious blowoffs recently...well ever since I got my stirplate.

And you say this will help me?

I fill a 6G BB with 5.25G of wort. (I Really want a 7G BB)


I've read this will make my final more bitter...thoughts?

I just brewed and fermented (2) 5.25 gallon batches with Belgian yeast strains and 6 lbs of wheat DME. Normally that would be 24-36 hours of nonstop foam and goop blowoff. I added 3 drops of Fermcap S and I am glad to report ZERO blowoff. There was a healthy krausen which almost perfectly filled the headspace. This is a game changer for me because it allows me to use wheat DME rather than wheat LME.

I imagine there will be increased bitterness because a lot escapes during the blowoff (taste the blowoff foam sometime). If hope there is because my last brew came out too sweet and so far I am blaming it on the loss of bitterness from blowoff. Luckily the sweetness if mellowing out a bit with time.

One thing I am concerned about though, when to add the fermcap? On my first batch I added it right after I pitched the yeast. I added 3 drops and swirled the bottle to mix in the fermcap and the foam instantly disappeared. When I shook the bottle it would be smooth as glass and when I stopped a bunch of bubbles came up. In other words I suspect that the fermcap may have released some of the gas that I painstakingly aerated into the wort (by shaking violently for a few minutes)

On my second batch I waited until the krausen began to form before I added the fermcap. As far as I understand the yeast will gobble up the oxygen in the first few hours.

 

[Huey]

How far up the sides are people filling carboys when using Fermcap S?

I did a three gallon IPA batch in a three gallon carboy (the three gallon mark on mine is right where it starts to taper at the top) and got some blowoff after adding Fermcap s drops.

I'm not surprised it had some blowoff but I'm curious what other people are doing in carboy's. A picture would be great.

Do you just drop the drops in and forget about it or do you shake it up after adding the drops to disperse the Fermcap?

 

[Polkahero]

I added some of this stuff to my first batch last week during the boil and it did prevent boilover. There was hardly any foaming going on at any point during the boil. However, I did not put any in the primary fermenter as I've read that it will add about 10 IBU's to your beer, and I didn't want to make it anymore bitter. I did have to use a blowoff tube to handle the krausen when the yeast got going. Can anyone attest to the extra bitterness that this stuff supposedly creates when added to the fermenter?

 

[RegionalChaos]

I just did an IPA Friday and used this for the first time. I thought it was great. I put 6.5g in my 7.5g pot, no boil over. It was a hard rolling boil the whole time, and there was no foam coming up. My ferment is looking good to. I pitched a healthy amount of yeast (100ml of slurry I estimate) and have had a very vigorous ferment. I'm guessing it will be fermented out by the 72 hour mark, but I'll give it a week or two to clean up. Anyway, I filled the carboy up until the top started slopping in, and I've had a thick head almost up to the neck. But it's started to drop after the 48 hour mark. It would have blown off normally, I'm sure of it. I'm sold on this stuff. I think it's great. I imagine I'll be adding this, along with yeast nutrients, now to all my batches.

 

[aluminumpark]

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/ZI/zinc.html

http://cartwright.chem.ox.ac.uk/hsci/chemicals/zinc.html

I've seen punctured pennies that look full of white powder. It may not be that bad, but as a hobbyist metal worker, I hear a lot of people talk about NOT using zinc plated metal due to fumes that can burn off of it that can be very harmful.

zinc coated metals release poisonous gases when you heat them up. So you aren't supposed to weld galvanized without proper ventilation. I've actually heard of brewers throwing zinc nuts into the BK because zinc is an important nutrient for the yeast that is often deficient

 

[ArcaneXor]

I have stopped using Fermcap for kraeusen control - I still had too many clogged airlocks even after using it. I found that installing a blow-off tube reduced the chance for blow-off more than using fermcap - probably has something to do with pressure inside the fermenter.

It's still great and indispensable in the boil for me, since I boil ~5 gallons in a 5.5 gallon stockpot.

 

[Praiodan]

I got a small bottle of this stuff from Austin and tried it out for the first time last Saturday. I have a 9 gallon brew pot and usually boil 6.5 gallons. I put the recommended drops in right before the boil started and waited, and waited and waited. Wort didn't even come close to a boil over!

Now I just need to get to the point where I can walk away after putting the drops in. I still hovered around the boil kettle anticipating a boil over or signs of one.

I'm sold on this stuff, will use it with all my brews!

 

[BadgerBrewer]

Think if I used some Fermcap-S in the fermenter I could have avoided this?

 

[ghpeel]

That's awesome!!! It's like a mushroom of krausen. How did the beer turn out?

 

[Hugh_Jass]

I have stopped using Fermcap for kraeusen control - I still had too many clogged airlocks even after using it. I found that installing a blow-off tube reduced the chance for blow-off more than using fermcap - probably has something to do with pressure inside the fermenter.

It's still great and indispensable in the boil for me, since I boil ~5 gallons in a 5.5 gallon stockpot.

+1 on this. Fermcap is an integral part of the brew day. It's fantastic in the BK and with starters....in the fermenter....not so much.

I've moved away from Fermcap as an ingredient for foam control in the fermenter....way too many blow offs and clogged tubes.

 

[BadgerBrewer]

That's awesome!!! It's like a mushroom of krausen. How did the beer turn out?

I brewed it on Memorial Day and it happened Tuesday night! I am not too worried though since there was so much krausen and CO2 in the freezer it was protected. Just sanitized the lid and put it back on. Head retention might suffer a bit but it just means I will have to drink it fast

 

[liljimmynorton]

I wish I could change my vote. Now that I have used Fermcap S, that stuff is like magic. I first used it in my starter, 2000ml flask with about 2200ml in it after DME. Not one boilover. I also used a few drops in the kettle. Now I boil a 6 gallon boil in a keggle so boilover is not really an issue, but I totally didn't watch it at all. I will put it to its ultimate test soon, a bavarian hefe with no blow off. I have faith though. I might even start fermenting in cornies using it too.

 

[kshuler]

I've moved away from Fermcap as an ingredient for foam control in the fermenter....way too many blow offs and clogged tubes.

Hmm... this is very different from my experiences with it. The trick is that it has to be added after vigorous fermentation starts. If you add it before the beer is churning it just sinks to the bottom. I currently have 7.1 gallons of Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde in my 7.3 gallon conical fermentor. It started fermenting yesterday at around 9 pm, at midnight I added fermcap-s. It is now bubbling about once every 0.6 seconds. There is only an inch between the top of the beer and the top of the fermentor, and my airlock is CLEAN .

I don't think I will ever brew without this stuff again!

Klaus

 

[rico567]

I use it in every batch; it enables me to easily do a 6.5 gal. boil in a 7.5 gal pot. As for those worried about the purity of the beer, the stuff precipitates into the trub and is gone; a non-issue.

 

[rebrandsoftware]

I thought I would mention that I just used this stuff twice in the last week. The first time was in my starter flask and it worked like a charm, boiling steadily without any build-up. That was 1 drop worth.

Today I used it in a 3 gallon partial boil and used two drops. It worked great, not even a hint of a boil over.

Now I'm wondering if those two drops will continue to work against foam in the fermenter or would I need to add more?

 

[rico567]

Use more. It will precipitate out of the boil as you chill.....or so I understand it. I use 5-6 drops in a full 6.5 gal boil...and nary a foam problem. I wouldn't brew without it, now.

 

[kshuler]

Yesterday did a 1.060 pale ale / IPA. Filled my fermentor (7.3 gal conical) to within 1 cm of the top, pitched a massive starter of Pacman (made a 1 liter starter, but didn't get to use it for a few days so I reexpanded it as a 2L starter). It was off like a shot, with bubbling within 2 hours and LOTs of bubbling in 4 hours. At 4 hours, added 15 drops of fermcap-s. Woke up this morning and looked- clean airlock bubbling like a champ.

This stuff is as close to a miracle as anything I have ever seen.

Klaus

 

[tomwirsing]

I tried it for the first time this past Sunday. I was making 10 gallons of Pale Ale. I added 20 drops to the boil. It worked great for the boil. It gently came to a rolling boil with no attempt to boil over.

I was only able to chill down to about 84 F. My 5 gallon carboys were filled to about half up the slanted part. I've always used a blowoff in the past.

I was using WPL001 and had made two forty ounce starters. I pitched around 5:30 pm on Sunday. When I got up on Monday, they were rocking. One airlock lid had been blown off. I put them in tuns of water with a t-shirt over them.

I was out of town for the next 3 days. My wife told me about another airlock lid blowoff on Wednesday. I had her cover it with foil.

What really struck me as unusual is that one of the carboys blew off so much that's it down to about 3-3.5 gallons. The other one is around 4.5 gallons, showing some, but minimal blowoff.

The extreme blowoff smells alright and doesn't look nasty. I'm going to RDWHAHB.

However, I'd like to know if I used the fermcap properly. I was expecting it to eliminate boilover and blowoff.

Any advice is welcome.

 

[the_bird]

20 drops in the boil? I've been using like... maybe three drops, maybe four, and it works perfect. Able to maintain a nice, rolling boil without any hint of a boilover.

Pretty sure you have to re-add it if you want to use it in the fermenter, though. As was said earlier, it might precipitate out with the cold break when you're chilling. I'd try again, just add a couple drops to the fermenters and see if it helps. I *know* you don't need twenty drops, though!

 

[rico567]

20 drops in the boil? I've been using like... maybe three drops, maybe four, and it works perfect. Able to maintain a nice, rolling boil without any hint of a boilover.

Pretty sure you have to re-add it if you want to use it in the fermenter, though. As was said earlier, it might precipitate out with the cold break when you're chilling. I'd try again, just add a couple drops to the fermenters and see if it helps. I *know* you don't need twenty drops, though!

All of this is true in my experience. I put maybe 5-6 drops in a full 6.5 gallon boil. And Fermcap will precipitate out after the boil. You need to add more to the fermenter.

 

[944play]

I'd say, more accurately, you MAY need to add more in the fermenter.

I used to strain my wort by dumping it all through a sink strainer lined with a paint straining bag. Now that I have an O2 rig, I whirlpool in the kettle and rack the wort off the hops and break. I used to notice very low, maybe 1" kraeusens without adding additional anti-foam, but now I have to add a few drops in the fermenter when I don't leave enough headroom.

Supports the notion that it settles out, but doesn't just go away or lose efficacy....

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Or you can avoid all of the silicone in your beer and have a large enough fermenter for the batch you are making. When considering the size, please note that occasionally you will have a healthy fermentation, so make it even larger.

Forrest

 

[FlyGuy]

Or you can avoid all of the silicone in your beer and have a large enough fermenter for the batch you are making. When considering the size, please note that occasionally you will have a healthy fermentation, so make it even larger.

Spoken like a true salesman!

And I think you should ALWAYS shoot for a healthy fermentation!