Leaving it on the Yeast bed: advantages?

[nlpavalko]

Just a question of curiosity.

I have read recommendations about leaving your brew on the yeast bed beyond the customary two week fermentation.

First question: Why? Does it add anything the the flavor of the brew?

Second question: Will letting my current IPA (recipe here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/90-minute-ipa-316556/) sit in the fermentor another three weeks hurt or help any?

I am currently at week two in the fermentor, so we would be at a total of nearly a month of rest in the fermentor.

Thoughts?

 

[homebrewdad]

Bulk aging a beer can add to the flavor in that it will mellow and blend nicely. Leaving it on the yeast longer will help to ensure that the yeast clean up after themselves as much as possible.

That being said, an IPA is one of only a couple of styles that you probably shouldn't let sit for a longer time - hop aroma and flavor are best when the beer is younger.

 

[pjj2ba]

Just a question of curiosity.

I have read recommendations about leaving your brew on the yeast bed beyond the customary two week fermentation.

First question: Why? Does it add anything the the flavor of the brew?

Second question: Will letting my current IPA (recipe here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/90-minute-ipa-316556/) sit in the fermentor another three weeks hurt or help any?

I am currently at week two in the fermentor, so we would be at a total of nearly a month of rest in the fermentor.

Thoughts?

Well, it is easy to do primary only beers. It does contribute to the flavor of the brew. I can be more subtle in some styles. Some people like the flavors they get from leaving a beer longer on the yeast while others prefer to remove it from the yeast once fermentation is complete. Let your taste bud guide you.


Any "cleaning up" that occurs once active fermentation is complete is done by the yeast that are still in suspension. The yeast that have settled out contribute very little to the active "clean up" process

 

[Yooper]

After active fermentation is over, the yeast are still active. They eat all of the fermentables, then go back and "clean up" the beer and even digest their own waste products. That is what is meant by the "yeast cleaning up after itself".

But that process takes a day or two after the final gravity is reached, so it's usually complete long before two weeks is up. A healthy fermentation may last as little as 2-3 days, and I have had beers ferment out overnight in the past. But it also might go as long as 5-7 days for ales or a bit longer for lagers.

Keeping the beer in the fermenter for at least a couple of days after fermentation ends means that the beer would be finished, the yeast would digest some of the by-products of fermentation such as diacetyl, and then the beer would start to clear.

There is a bit of flavor imparted by a lengthier time on the yeast cake. Some people actually prefer that, but I do not. I tend to leave the beer in the fermenter for about 10 days or so, up to 14 days for beers I've dryhopped in the primary.

 

[Harvbar]

I was curious about the same thing when fermenting a double IPA, the gentleman at my LHBS said to take it off the trub after two weeks. I have read contradicting things on here about it and would also like to know other peoples experience/opinions.

 

[bk0]

I'm just a beginner, but I've been leaving my brews on the cake for four weeks. Higher gravity brews, 6 - 8 weeks. It's just easier to leave it and forget about it rather than racking or bottling so soon. Plus I prefer the mellower, aged taste.

 

[KavDaven]

After active fermentation is over, the yeast are still active. They eat all of the fermentables, then go back and "clean up" the beer and even digest their own waste products. That is what is meant by the "yeast cleaning up after itself".

Sooo, what about rousing the yeast? Give it a stir? Shake the bucket?

If the yeast have already eaten the fermentables, they are only laying down on the bottom since they don't have anything else to do. OR maybe gravity dragged them down to the bottom before they were finished? AND getting them back into suspension would help them do their job better?

I only say this, because I've been reading about yeast washing and starters where you want a stir plate to keep the yeast suspended.

So, do we want to keep the yeast stirred up crazy? or do we let them settle down into a yeast cake? Racking after one to two weeks depending on the brew?

 

[KavDaven]

Bulk aging a beer can add to the flavor in that it will mellow and blend nicely.

Bottling immediately after primary will result in 50 some odd possibly subtle different brews?

Where as racking to a secondary allows the brew to age as a single brew?

 

[LimerickBrewCo]

I'm no expert but as I understand it and in my experience it's almost always better to leave the beer a little longer than taking it too soon.

 

[Calichusetts]

Sort of like the secondary arguement, not a necessary step in brewing but many do it. Some say it clears the beer better, some say you get different flavors.

Yooper is spot on in the "clean up" timeframe...I'd say, as with nearly everything in brewing, try it yourself both ways and see what you like.

 

[Yooper]

Sooo, what about rousing the yeast? Give it a stir? Shake the bucket?

If the yeast have already eaten the fermentables, they are only laying down on the bottom since they don't have anything else to do. OR maybe gravity dragged them down to the bottom before they were finished? AND getting them back into suspension would help them do their job better?

I only say this, because I've been reading about yeast washing and starters where you want a stir plate to keep the yeast suspended.

So, do we want to keep the yeast stirred up crazy? or do we let them settle down into a yeast cake? Racking after one to two weeks depending on the brew?

Only when you have a highly flocculant yeast strain that may flocc out before finishing up do you want to rouse the yeast. I never have needed to, in 300+ batches, so I'd say that would be a very rare occurrence!

A stir plate is used to propagate yeast, not to make good beer, so keeping the yeast in suspension and aerated is good for that.

Once the beer has been at FG for at least a day or two, it's fine to rack.

Some people use a secondary- better called a bright tank or clearing vessel- while others just go ahead and package. It really doesn't matter. Big breweries use a bright tank, so they can open the fermenter for another batch. There isn't anything that happens to help the beer clear faster by moving it, so it can stay in primary and clear or be racked and clear. The time table will be roughly the same for clearing.

 

[homebrewdad]

Bottling immediately after primary will result in 50 some odd possibly subtle different brews?

Where as racking to a secondary allows the brew to age as a single brew?

Nope. Young beer is akin to spaghetti sauce you just made. You can pick out the components - the tomato, the meat, the onion - easier. After your sauce is in the fridge overnight, you get a more uniform, blended product that is greater than the sum of its parts.

Beer in general needs to age a little before it hits its peak. It can do that in bottles, but most will tell you that this happens quicker when bulk aging.

There are quite a few threads where people test this by brewing up a big batch, bottling half as soon as possible, bulk aging the other half. I have yet to read a thread where the bulk aged portion was not considered to be superior.

 

[brewit2it]

After active fermentation is over, the yeast are still active. They eat all of the fermentables, then go back and "clean up" the beer and even digest their own waste products. That is what is meant by the "yeast cleaning up after itself".

But that process takes a day or two after the final gravity is reached, so it's usually complete long before two weeks is up. A healthy fermentation may last as little as 2-3 days, and I have had beers ferment out overnight in the past. But it also might go as long as 5-7 days for ales or a bit longer for lagers.

Keeping the beer in the fermenter for at least a couple of days after fermentation ends means that the beer would be finished, the yeast would digest some of the by-products of fermentation such as diacetyl, and then the beer would start to clear.

There is a bit of flavor imparted by a lengthier time on the yeast cake. Some people actually prefer that, but I do not. I tend to leave the beer in the fermenter for about 10 days or so, up to 14 days for beers I've dryhopped in the primary.

I agree with Yooper. The advantages (and disadvantages) of a prolonged time on the yeast are generally overstated. I have done 10 days to a month and haven't noticed any significant difference. I pretty much go 2 weeks on all my beers because I only brew on the weekends and 1 week isn't usually long enough.

 

[Homercidal]

I tend to leave my beer on the yeast for 3-4 weeks for the average beer. Not because of any advantages in flavor, but because I usually have things get in the way and it doesn't hurt the beer either. Just makes sure the beer is done.

If I have a really big beer, or I anticipate needing to let it sit a while before kegging/bottling, I like to rack to secondary before the 6 weeks mark.

There is plenty of yeast in suspension to perform any cleaning up and at any rate anything the yeast will do to help the flavor is likely going to be done right after the initial source of food is gone, as Yooper says. This is assuming you've pitched the proper amount of yeast.

That said I have kept a beer in primary for a lot longer than the 6 weeks. A hoppy American Stout with a somewhat high ABV. Scored very well in competition and lots of people seemed to like it. It was also my first no chill FWIW.

 

[helibrewer]

It's all personal preference. I have met with Shea Comfort (www.yeastwhisperer.com) on a couple of occasions for wine consulting. He does consulting work with Lellemand on their yeast. His fermentation start was in mead and beer and he treats his beer just like wine, rousing the yeast DAILY...his reasoning; it's the same yeast species, there's no reason not to treat both fermentations (wine and beer) the same....and he makes great beer.

So my conclusion is that do what you have time for and what sparks your "creative" side...seems everything that occurs after the the last days of FG, i.e. clean-up, is speculation and personal preference.

 

[jbaysurfer]

The fact that the yeast will eat some of their own byproducts is not speculation, it's science. Whether that creates a more enjoyable beer or reduces off flavors is not technically speculation, it's just subjective. So yeah, that DOES come down to personal preference.

I personally think the beer pretty much derives flavor from 3 sources (given a benchmark water source for you nitpickers), grain, hops, and yeast. So why not let the 3rd source do all it can to flavor your beer?

 

[Handsaw]

After active fermentation is over, the yeast are still active. They eat all of the fermentables, then go back and "clean up" the beer and even digest their own waste products. That is what is meant by the "yeast cleaning up after itself".

But that process takes a day or two after the final gravity is reached, so it's usually complete long before two weeks is up. A healthy fermentation may last as little as 2-3 days, and I have had beers ferment out overnight in the past. But it also might go as long as 5-7 days for ales or a bit longer for lagers.

Keeping the beer in the fermenter for at least a couple of days after fermentation ends means that the beer would be finished, the yeast would digest some of the by-products of fermentation such as diacetyl, and then the beer would start to clear.

There is a bit of flavor imparted by a lengthier time on the yeast cake. Some people actually prefer that, but I do not. I tend to leave the beer in the fermenter for about 10 days or so, up to 14 days for beers I've dryhopped in the primary.

I thought that fermentation should be complete in a week, but this batch I'm brewing now had an OG of 1.078 and started bubbling on the 2nd or 3rd day and is still bubbling more than a week later. It is in the basement which hangs at about 68 degrees. I was worried that I didn't pitch enough yeast to start with. I used Wyeast 1010 instead of what the receipe called for because that is what the LHBS had. I know it is going to be beer, but what is going to happen to the flavor with it taking so long. It is bubbling at about the same rate it was on day 4.
There is no point in taking a SG reading until it stops bubbling is there?
Thanks,
Ken

 

[helibrewer]

The fact that the yeast will eat some of their own byproducts is not speculation, it's science. Whether that creates a more enjoyable beer or reduces off flavors is not technically speculation, it's just subjective. So yeah, that DOES come down to personal preference.

I personally think the beer pretty much derives flavor from 3 sources (given a benchmark water source for you nitpickers), grain, hops, and yeast. So why not let the 3rd source do all it can to flavor your beer?

Sorry, I wasn't clear, what I meant was that all of the advantage/disadvantage of extended contact time AFTER clean-up is speculation....clean-up is certainly necessary and beneficial and is in fact the final phase of fermentation.

 

[McGarnigle]

Regardless of how long it takes yeast to clean up, remember that there's still plenty of yeast in the beer itself, even if you've racked to secondary. I'd guess that that's the yeast that is affecting your beer, not the stuff that fell to the bottom.

 

[BuddyWeiser]

I thought that fermentation should be complete in a week, but this batch I'm brewing now had an OG of 1.078 and started bubbling on the 2nd or 3rd day and is still bubbling more than a week later. It is in the basement which hangs at about 68 degrees. I was worried that I didn't pitch enough yeast to start with. I used Wyeast 1010 instead of what the receipe called for because that is what the LHBS had. I know it is going to be beer, but what is going to happen to the flavor with it taking so long. It is bubbling at about the same rate it was on day 4.
There is no point in taking a SG reading until it stops bubbling is there?
Thanks,
Ken

Bubbling implies it is still fermenting, so you might just need to give that batch some more time than you usually need. Play by feel kinda thing - be flexible.

I wait until FG is reached, then I go exactly one week more. For in life, I've found balance to be a key for success. Some say go long, some say stay short. Ride the middle as comfortably as possible and as much as you can stand, that's what I say.