Last two brews were......

[redrocker652002]

Greetings to all. I read the post about the brewer who had a rough patch on his last two brews and thought I would add my tale of woe. I am new to All Grain and have struggled a bit with the mash temps and OG numbers. But, the most frustrating part is the fermentation. My last two batches have been what were called APA and IPA. Both were not very difficult, not being much different than other recipes that have worked out ok. My problem these last two have been that, although fermentation has started and went the way all the others have, they have seemed to stop well before the FG has been reached. My last one, using BRY97, has stalled at 1.035 from an OG of 1.064 according to my Ispindel. This brew has been stuck for about two days, so I am still holding hope. Not sure why these last two have done this, as I have not changed anything I did in the first two all grain batches I did, but I just figured I would vent.

 

[Sammy86]

Greetings to all. I read the post about the brewer who had a rough patch on his last two brews and thought I would add my tale of woe. I am new to All Grain and have struggled a bit with the mash temps and OG numbers. But, the most frustrating part is the fermentation. My last two batches have been what were called APA and IPA. Both were not very difficult, not being much different than other recipes that have worked out ok. My problem these last two have been that, although fermentation has started and went the way all the others have, they have seemed to stop well before the FG has been reached. My last one, using BRY97, has stalled at 1.035 from an OG of 1.064 according to my Ispindel. This brew has been stuck for about two days, so I am still holding hope. Not sure why these last two have done this, as I have not changed anything I did in the first two all grain batches I did, but I just figured I would vent.

Have you verified your gravity with a hydrometer? Ispindels and the like are known once they have crud on them to give some off readings...i would take a hydrometer sample and then make a decision.

What temp did you mash at?

 

[redrocker652002]

Have you verified your gravity with a hydrometer? Ispindels and the like are known once they have crud on them to give some off readings...i would take a hydrometer sample and then make a decision.

What temp did you mash at?

I have not with this one but did on the batch last week. I put my hydrometer in a glass of warm tap water and it was at 1.001 or so. I am going to check the most recent one in a few days. Butthe readings appear accurate.

My mash temps on both were between 148 and 154. An ok range from what I have read. My OG was a bit higher but still inthe ball park on if I remember right. All my notes are in another room so I don't have them right now

Thanks for replying. I appreciate the input.

 

[Sammy86]

I have not with this one but did on the batch last week. I put my hydrometer in a glass of warm tap water and it was at 1.001 or so. I am going to check the most recent one in a few days. Butthe readings appear accurate.

My mash temps on both were between 148 and 154. An ok range from what I have read. My OG was a bit higher but still inthe ball park on if I remember right. All my notes are in another room so I don't have them right now

Thanks for replying. I appreciate the input.

I'd give the FV a little shake or swirl see if you can't get the yeast awake again...if you're still at the high gravity it may be time to pitch new yeast!

 

[WesBrew]

Sounds like you are getting conversion. If that mash temp gets up higher you might be making some less fermentable wort. On the fermentation side, i'm wondering what temperature you are fermenting at. there is still the possibility that it is just an equipment issue and you just have to confirm with a hydrometer

 

[redrocker652002]

Sounds like you are getting conversion. If that mash temp gets up higher you might be making some less fermentable wort. On the fermentation side, i'm wondering what temperature you are fermenting at. there is still the possibility that it is just an equipment issue and you just have to confirm with a hydrometer

I put a thermometer in the closet I am using and it ranged between 67 to 71 in the closet. The Ispindel has given me temp reading in the wort in the high 60's but that could be I guess. Funny thing is that is the same closet I have been using for a while, so I don't know what might have changed.

Either way, thanks for the reply, I appreciate the info.

 

[redrocker652002]

I'd give the FV a little shake or swirl see if you can't get the yeast awake again...if you're still at the high gravity it may be time to pitch new yeast!

I was thinking of going to get another packet of BRY97 and see what happens. Can't hurt it, right? The recipe I got said it should go for 14 days, so I am going to wait at least that long. Then we shall see.

 

[wsmith1625]

Pitching another pack shouldn't hurt, but I'm guessing it's not the yeast that's your problem. Sounds like you mashed too hot creating unfermentable sugars. Calibrate your thermometers to make sure they're accurate. I started with an analog thermometer for checking mash temperatures. I didn't realize that the head could spin and throw off the calibration until I had a similar issue. I replaced the analog thermometer with a Thermoworks digital and haven't had a problem since.

 

[redrocker652002]

Pitching another pack shouldn't hurt, but I'm guessing it's not the yeast that's your problem. Sounds like you mashed too hot creating unfermentable sugars. Calibrate your thermometers to make sure they're accurate. I started with an analog thermometer for checking mash temperatures. I didn't realize that the head could spin and throw off the calibration until I had a similar issue. I replaced the analog thermometer with a Thermoworks digital and haven't had a problem since.

I will double check it. It was spot on when I checked it out of the box but you are right, it could have moved.

 

[Kickass]

Could the thermometer you use to measure mash temps be off?

I put my hydrometer in a glass of warm tap water and it was at 1.001 or so

My hydrometer is calibrated at 68f, it’s printed on the scale. “Warm” water may not be giving you the most accurate calibration.

 

[wsmith1625]

Are you cooling your wort to pitching temp before you take your OG reading? You should be, and then use temperature correction to adjust to your hydrometer's calibration temperature.

Example, hydrometer reads 1.050 @ 68 degrees. The OG adjusted to a hydrometer calibrated at 60 degrees would be 1.051.

 

[redrocker652002]

Could the thermometer you use to measure mash temps be off?

My hydrometer is calibrated at 68f, it’s printed on the scale. “Warm” water may not be giving you the most accurate calibration.

Got it. I will double check this weekend. All good info, thanks for posting.

 

[redrocker652002]

Are you cooling your wort to pitching temp before you take your OG reading? You should be, and then use temperature correction to adjust to your hydrometer's calibration temperature.

Example, hydrometer reads 1.050 @ 68 degrees. The OG adjusted to a hydrometer calibrated at 60 degrees would be 1.051.

To be honest, I don't remember when I took the readings. I want to say it was after the wort had cooled to pitch temp, but I don't remember. Either way, great info. Thanks. I will try and pay more attention. I am now wondering if the Thermometer on my kettle moved

 

[bracconiere]

Example, hydrometer reads 1.050 @ 68 degrees. The OG adjusted to a hydrometer calibrated at 60 degrees would be 1.051.

(that's not an insult, but i got a laugh! i'm lucky if can read the damn things within 2 points! )

 

[wsmith1625]

(that's not an insult, but i got a laugh! i'm lucky if can read the damn things within 2 points! )

My eyes aren't getting any younger either. I take a picture and then zoom in on the photo to get a better look.

 

[hotbeer]

Have you made certain there isn't anything stuck to your iSpindle that might be changing the angle it's floating and maybe giving you a wrong reading even when it's perfectly calibrated.

Why did you use warm water to calibrate it? I'd think you'd use water the same temp as what you are going to ferment at. Or do you do warm ferments?

I've had hydrometers show really low readings because of a bubble or two stuck to them. Your iSpindle is subject to the same issues with bubbles or even flocculated yeast and crud sticking to it. And the errors might go in either direction.

 

[redrocker652002]

Have you made certain there isn't anything stuck to your iSpindle that might be changing the angle it's floating and maybe giving you a wrong reading even when it's perfectly calibrated.

Why did you use warm water to calibrate it? I'd think you'd use water the same temp as what you are going to ferment at. Or do you do warm ferments?

I've had hydrometers show really low readings because of a bubble or two stuck to them. Your iSpindle is subject to the same issues with bubbles or even flocculated yeast and crud sticking to it. And the errors might go in either direction.

I used warm water just to see if my hydrometer was working correctly or at least in the ball park. I did not know to do it any differently. My wort is in the 67 to 69 degree range in the closet, so I was close to that I am guessing. I am going to do a bunch of stuff this weekend to see if my temp gauge on the kettle is off. I will check the hydrometer again with water that is somewhere in the 67 to 69 range. But, it is really far off. I was hoping to get to 1.010 and I am at 1.035. I am really not sure what went wrong these last two times as I did everything the same as I had the first 3 that worked out well. We will blaze on and keep reading all the good advice and see where this takes me. Thanks for the input, I appreciate yours and all who have posted. RR

 

[bracconiere]

I used warm water just to see if my hydrometer was working correctly or at least in the ball park.

in your first post you said ispindel...is that still what you're refering to now you're talking about hydrometers?

to me 1.035 is impossible for beer...i've been brewing for a bit, and never had a beer not ferment....(except when some stupid water calculator told me to add like 20g gypsum....)

 

[redrocker652002]

in your first post you said ispindel...is that still what you're refering to now you're talking about hydrometers?

to me 1.035 is impossible for beer...i've been brewing for a bit, and never had a beer not ferment....(except when some stupid water calculator told me to add like 20g gypsum....)

Sorry, let me back up and try again. My OG was about 1.062 both on my Ispindel and my Hydrometer. I pitched the yeast, BRY97, when the wort cooled to about 68 degrees. It took about 24 hours for the yeast to start showing any activity in the airlock. All was going well, until about 3 days later when it stuck at 1.035. And that is where it has been since. I checked the hydrometer in warm water just to make sure it was accurate. I had been told in another post, that if you put the hydrometer in too hot water the wax at the bottom melts and it becomes inaccurate. So my reason for putting the hydrometer in warm water was just to check and make sure it is at least close to accurate. I have not yet put the Ispindel in water, although that will be a future test to make sure that is working as well. On a previous batch, I checked the numbers on the Ispindel against my hydrometer and they were the same. This weekend I will be checking the thermometer on my kettle to make sure that is good as well. It has been a bit frustrating as I have done 3 batches with no issues other than not hitting the OG, these last two I hit, or was close, to the OG and problems occured.

Thanks for posting, I am taking it all in and trying to learn along as I go.

 

[bracconiere]

All was going well, until about 3 days later when it stuck at 1.035. And that is where it has been since. I checked the hydrometer in warm water just to make sure it was accurate.

3 days is a normal ferment for a beer really...and you say you're going by the fact that the hydro and ispindel read the same 'BEFORE' fermentation started?

i mean do you have a wine theif you can check the ferment with the hydrometer, if you haven't already? or a refractometer would work too with a correction calculator....

I have not yet put the Ispindel in water,

if when you do, i'd curious to do it without rinsing or washing it in anyway.....

 

[redrocker652002]

3 days is a normal ferment for a beer really...and you say you're going by the fact that the hydro and ispindel read the same 'BEFORE' fermentation started?

i mean do you have a wine theif you can check the ferment with the hydrometer, if you haven't already? or a refractometer would work too with a correction calculator....




if when you do, i'd curious to do it without rinsing or washing it in anyway.....

The ispindel is reading 1.035 after almost a week. I have not checked this batch with my hydrometer. That will be this weekend.

I can try putting the ispindel right out of the bucket into water. Had not thought of that.

I'm still leaning towards faulty equipment. But I am going to try everything suggested.

 

[wsmith1625]

It has been a bit frustrating as I have done 3 batches with no issues other than not hitting the OG, these last two I hit, or was close, to the OG and problems occured.

Don't beat yourself up over this. It happens even after years of brewing. There are variables in brewing we try to control, but sometimes despite our best efforts the wort or yeast have a different plan. All the information in this thread should definitely help with your next brew.

 

[_BullDog_]

2 examples from my summer brews

First high FG was a stout were the pump was to low and stopped. Mash temp hit 160 and it only fermented down to 1.030ish and wouldn't go lower. OG was around 1.064

2nd one was a low OG blonde ale (around 1.040) and the high FG was related to crud on the tilt… The tilt was just reading high (1.020) but the beer fermented down to 1.008.

Always confirm odd readings with a hydrometer and then you can think through your process to find a possible cause. Unless you started with a really high OG the yeast shouldn’t just stop at 1.030 unless there was a lot of unfermentable sugars from the mash or your fermentation temps got really low and put the yeast to sleep.

 

[hotbeer]

So your warm water was what temp?

Maybe you consider warm water as 68'ish degrees or so. But to me that is just normal room temp water. Not warm not cold.

Using the term warm, at least to me, implied that you'd warmed it up to a lukewarm temperature which is typically 105 - 115°F.

Hydrometers for beer are typically calibrated at 68°F. And that does include electronic hydrometers like your Tilt. Hydrometers for other uses might be calibrated to 60°F.

 

[balrog]

He still needs to measure a sample of the fermenting beer, regardless of verifying the relative calibration accuracy of the hydrometer. We all need to see what the hydrometer says when sitting in a sample of the fermenting beer.

 

[bracconiere]

sample of the fermented beer.

FTFY (i finally get to use cool internet slang i just learned!)

 

[redrocker652002]

He still needs to measure a sample of the fermenting beer, regardless of verifying the relative calibration accuracy of the hydrometer. We all need to see what the hydrometer says when sitting in a sample of the fermenting beer.

I will be doing that either today or tomorrow and will post what I find.

 

[An Ankoù]

I know this is a bit primitive, but have you tried tasting the beer? If it's sweet and cloying then the fermentation has stuck. If it tastes pretty much as you expected, it's probably ready for kegging.

 

[redrocker652002]

I know this is a bit primitive, but have you tried tasting the beer? If it's sweet and cloying then the fermentation has stuck. If it tastes pretty much as you expected, it's probably ready for kegging.

I just did. Does not taste bad to me, tastes kinda like I would have expected. So, I am going to wait another week and take another reading and see where I am .

 

[redrocker652002]

Ok folks, so here is where I eat a bunch of crow. I just checked my first "errant" brews. The gravity into the keg was 1.054 on the first one. The last gravity I took was about 1.023, and it stuck there for about a week. I decided to keg it and let it sit for another week. So this is about the third week of fermentation. i just checked it, and low and behold I am at 1.018. Still not where I want to be, but a damn shot better than I was.

I checked the other one, that was reading 1.035 on my Ispindel and has been in the bucket for about a week and a half. The ispindel says it is about 1.035. But, my hydrometer says it is at about 1.028. So, obviously I have an issue with the Ispindel reading too high. Not sure what that is all about, but I am much happier now that I see the numbers coming down to where they should be. So, Let the Flaming begin!!!!!! LOL

 

[bracconiere]

So, Let the Flaming begin!!!!!! LOL

on who's part? those are still pretty high FG's!

 

[redrocker652002]

on who's part? those are still pretty high FG's!

Yes, they are still high, but they came down and that was what I was trying to say. If I waited a little longer, as has been suggested to me by many, including my wife, I would have had a bit better feeling about this. My plan is to take a gravity every week now until there are no changes. If they don't come down, then OK. I might add another packet of BRY to the last one as it seems to have stalled way more than I expected after only two weeks but we will see. Also, I need to see what is up with the Ispindel. It read 1.035 and the hydrometer showed 1.028 or so (bubbles made it tough to see the lines, but I am in the ball park).

I am still going to check the temp on my kettle thermometer just for the heck of it. Then at least I know where I am there.

Also, maybe I had too much sugar in the last one. I was supposed to get a OG of about 1.058 and I ended up with one of about 1.062. Maybe the yeast did all it could and ran out of juice, so to speak. Who knows, I am still learning.

Thanks for the reply, I truly do appreciate it. RR

 

[balrog]

(bubbles made it tough to see the lines, but I am in the ball park).

With fermented beer, there is always some dissolved CO2 in solution, which has a tendency to form around nice cool hydrometers inserted thereinto. Even tiny bubbles with cause hydrometer to float higher than it would normally sink, giving higher SG reading. Make sure to swirly-twirly the hydrometer, or go medieval on the sample by pouring roughly between two containers and/or whisking, to remove all dissolved CO2. This is typically more of an issue with cooler fermented (like 60F) samples. Ask me how I know. I've actually watched the hydrometer, placed carefully in the sample, slowly and inexorably, rise slowly, like a ghostly poltergeist is tugging it upward. I mean, I may have been drinking at the time, but, well, you know.

 

[redrocker652002]

With fermented beer, there is always some dissolved CO2 in solution, which has a tendency to form around nice cool hydrometers inserted thereinto. Even tiny bubbles with cause hydrometer to float higher than it would normally sink, giving higher SG reading. Make sure to swirly-twirly the hydrometer, or go medieval on the sample by pouring roughly between two containers and/or whisking, to remove all dissolved CO2. This is typically more of an issue with cooler fermented (like 60F) samples. Ask me how I know. I've actually watched the hydrometer, placed carefully in the sample, slowly and inexorably, rise slowly, like a ghostly poltergeist is tugging it upward. I mean, I may have been drinking at the time, but, well, you know.

That last part made me laugh, and I usually have a few while I do this as well. That might be part of the problem. LOL.

I am going to let both go another week or so. What the heck. The first one, if it settles in at about 1.015 or so, that isn't bad. Either way, I am going to drink them, or at least try. Why not, right?

 

[hotbeer]

Think of your Tilt as a relative measurement device. It'll get crud stuck to it while in the fermenter that will affect the angle it sits which will cause it to give a wrong reading even if it was properly calibrated. But likely by the time two weeks is over there isn't anything going on to continue crudding up your tilt. So whatever reading it's giving, if it's stable for several days, then your beer is probably finished.

Just check with a more typical hydrometer and then you'll know the real SG. But if you don't spin the bubbles off of it as suggested by another, then that reading too will be suspect and likely read too low an SG.

Sounds like you've had your beer in the FV for quite a few weeks though. So if you aren't at your true FG already then something is probably up besides the maybe inaccurate SG readings.

However your FG may not be the recipes FG and even if everything done right and exactly the same each time, I wouldn't quibble over a few points one way or the other.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

What we're your mash temps. Excuse me if I overlooked it.

 

[redrocker652002]

What we're your mash temps. Excuse me if I overlooked it.

Both floated between 150 and 154 if I remember correctly. They may have spiked a bit, but if so, it was only for a few minutes.

 

[redrocker652002]

Quick update. The first of my "bad brews" has been in the keg for about two weeks. I pulled a pint last night. It actually wasn't too bad. Not much taste to it, but better than I had expected. This is a ale recipe, so the bitterness was lower and I was hoping for more hop flavor, but all in all, not undrinkable. LOL. Second brew is still in the bucket. I have had eye surgery, so no heavy lifting for a bit. We will see how that one goes.