Last 1/3 of ale fermentation with conical steps

[nick sekerak]

Hey all

I am currently on day 4 of fermentation for my latest DIPA. Right now the brew is 2/3’s complete, and I had a few questions on what order I need to do things to finish this beer properly.
I used WL001 for my yeast. I started off at 67and rose the temp to 68 yesterday when high krausen started coming down. Bumped to 69 today and I will raise it up to 71 over the next two days.Then hold for 5 days for a dice rest.

What puzzles me is when/what to do next and in the proper order. I still have to do the following: dry hoping and dump yeast, the cold crash.

How does everyone handle when they do these items? If you can give some specifics, like times and temps that work best for IPA’s. This is my first ipa with a temp controlled Fermentation chamber so I have a lot to learn. I am really trying to dial in my process.

 

[couchsending]

What conical do you have?

After a few days at 70 or so for D-rest soft cool to 60. Can you maintain head pressure? Did you get a pressure transfer valve with your conical? If you can apply head pressure do so. I put the transfer valve on at the tail end of fermentation. It holds about 2-3 psi and can maintain plenty of pressure to soft crash to 60.

Hold for 24-36 hours at 60.

Harvest yeast from the dump valve.

Add dry hops

Maintain at 60 for 4 or so days. Make sure to check for diacetyl. 1056 is notorious for it with dry hopped beers. Sometimes that yeast takes a little longer.

Crash as low as you can go while maintaining pressure. Let sit for 24-36 hours and transfer to a keg.

 

[nick sekerak]

What conical do you have?

After a few days at 70 or so for D-rest soft cool to 60. Can you maintain head pressure? Did you get a pressure transfer valve with your conical? If you can apply head pressure do so. I put the transfer valve on at the tail end of fermentation. It holds about 2-3 psi and can maintain plenty of pressure to soft crash to 60.

Hold for 24-36 hours at 60.

Harvest yeast from the dump valve.

Add dry hops

Maintain at 60 for 4 or so days. Make sure to check for diacetyl. 1056 is notorious for it with dry hopped beers. Sometimes that yeast takes a little longer.

Crash as low as you can go while maintaining pressure. Let sit for 24-36 hours and transfer to a keg.

I have the 7.9 gallon Fastferment so no pressurizing with this rig. This morning i just bumped the temp to 70* i was planning on bumping it up to 71* Saturday and to 72* Sunday. Is 72* too high for a D rest with WL001? I have read to D rest for between 3-5 days, so is 5 days ok just to be safe?

The soft crash to 60* is interesting what does it do exactly, i have not read anything on it.

After the 3 day soft crash at 60* do you maintain that temp for the entire DH too.

Thanks for your feedback it is extremely helpful



Dreaming of a new shiny SB CF-10

 

[couchsending]

I have the 7.9 gallon Fastferment so no pressurizing with this rig. This morning i just bumped the temp to 70* i was planning on bumping it up to 71* Saturday and to 72* Sunday. Is 72* too high for a D rest with WL001? I have read to D rest for between 3-5 days, so is 5 days ok just to be safe?

The soft crash to 60* is interesting what does it do exactly, i have not read anything on it.

After the 3 day soft crash at 60* do you maintain that temp for the entire DH too.

Thanks for your feedback it is extremely helpful



Dreaming of a new shiny SB CF-10

It doesn’t need to be a ton of pressure but at least some. Less than 5 psi is fine. You’re not trying to carbonate, just keep O2 away. Sorry I don’t know that device that well. Looks like some people put a sample port on them? A forced diacetyl test is a piece of cake. It takes 20-30 minutes and will really help with diacetyl prevention.

001 is fine at 72. If it was a healthy ferment with enough yeast and O2 then you generally don’t need longer than 2-3 days D-rest with 001 but it’s situationally dependent.

The soft crash helps getting some yeast out of suspension. It’s starts them floccing. If you want a lot of aroma in your beer you need less yeast in suspension. When yeast floccs it drags down hop oils.

 

[IslandLizard]

What was the OG? How much yeast did you pitch? Did you make a yeast starter? Did you aerate/oxygenate upon pitching?

4 days is relatively fast for bigger beers. Definitely leave it on the yeast until it's totally done and has cleared a good bit.

 

[nick sekerak]

What was the OG? How much yeast did you pitch? Did you make a yeast starter? Did you aerate/oxygenate upon pitching?

4 days is relatively fast for bigger beers. Definitely leave it on the yeast until it's totally done and has cleared a good bit.

I thought 4 days seemed fast too, i am not sure whats typical for this yeast, its my first time trying it out. I am going to take a SG reading tonight to see evactally where it is at. If WL001 attenuates per white labs website it should hit FG around 1022 if i get 80% attenuation.

My OG was 1.111, its a big beer. I pitched 958 billion cells (estimated from the yeast starter calc on brewersfriend.com) I made a two step starter and oxygenated each step. Also added 2 tbl of yeast nutrient in the last 15 min of the boil. Added 2 min of O2 to the wort at pitch and 2 min of O2 10 hours after pitch.

I never made a beer this big. I did notice the bubbling to pickup this morning, that is after i rose the temp was at 69* last night. I have a blow off tube on it and its putting a group 2-3 bubbles at the same time about once every second. At 68* it was 2-3 seconds.

 

[nick sekerak]

It doesn’t need to be a ton of pressure but at least some. Less than 5 psi is fine. You’re not trying to carbonate, just keep O2 away. Sorry I don’t know that device that well. Looks like some people put a sample port on them? A forced diacetyl test is a piece of cake. It takes 20-30 minutes and will really help with diacetyl prevention.

001 is fine at 72. If it was a healthy ferment with enough yeast and O2 then you generally don’t need longer than 2-3 days D-rest with 001 but it’s situationally dependent.

The soft crash helps getting some yeast out of suspension. It’s starts them floccing. If you want a lot of aroma in your beer you need less yeast in suspension. When yeast floccs it drags down hop oils.

I will do a diacetyl test just to confirm, it never hurts and its easy too. The only thing i cannt do is put any pressure on the brew, i am not set up to do this.

So here is my plan to finish this big brew off:

4/12/19 Raise to 72*, (D rest day #1)
4/13/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #2)
4/14/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #3)
4/15/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #4)
4/16/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #5) test for diacetyl if ok proceed if not D rest longer, check if terminal gravity is reached
4/17/19 Drop to 60* for soft crash
4/18/19 Hold 60* for soft crash
4/19/19 Hold 60* for soft crash
4/18/19 Hold 60* for soft crash, Dump yeast then add DH, (GOOD advice on the aroma!)
4/19/19 DH
4/20/19 DH
4/21/19 Pull DH out
4/22/19 Start cold crash to 34* My F chamber will take 2 days to get this low. After two days 34* is reached then keg.


i think this is pretty much how you fellas recommended, if i am missing anything let me know. I appreciate all your knowledge and help. THank you soo much.

 

[couchsending]

Issue is if you can’t maintain pressure at all every time you’re crashing you’re sucking O2 in.

 

[nick sekerak]

Hmm I think I may make something then. Off to the brew shop to see if I can get a gas port and mount it to the lid. 3 psi should not be too much for my FV...... I hope

 

[nick sekerak]

Rigged up a valve that my Co2 line can direct screw in to. I think it will work it it can hold a seal ok. I will test it during my cold crash.

 

[IslandLizard]

I thought 4 days seemed fast too, i am not sure whats typical for this yeast, its my first time trying it out. I am going to take a SG reading tonight to see evactally where it is at. If WL001 attenuates per white labs website it should hit FG around 1022 if i get 80% attenuation.

My OG was 1.111, its a big beer. I pitched 958 billion cells (estimated from the yeast starter calc on brewersfriend.com) I made a two step starter and oxygenated each step. Also added 2 tbl of yeast nutrient in the last 15 min of the boil. Added 2 min of O2 to the wort at pitch and 2 min of O2 10 hours after pitch.

I never made a beer this big. I did notice the bubbling to pickup this morning, that is after i rose the temp was at 69* last night. I have a blow off tube on it and its putting a group 2-3 bubbles at the same time about once every second. At 68* it was 2-3 seconds.

Looks like you did everything right to get this beer to fully finish out. Keep those temps steady, or on a small incline. A sudden temp drop can cause it to stall prematurely.

I will do a diacetyl test just to confirm, it never hurts and its easy too. The only thing i cannt do is put any pressure on the brew, i am not set up to do this.

So here is my plan to finish this big brew off:

4/12/19 Raise to 72*, (D rest day #1)
4/13/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #2)
4/14/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #3)
4/15/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #4)
4/16/19 Hold @ 72*, (D rest day #5) test for diacetyl if ok proceed if not D rest longer, check if terminal gravity is reached
4/17/19 Drop to 60* for soft crash
4/18/19 Hold 60* for soft crash
4/19/19 Hold 60* for soft crash
4/18/19 Hold 60* for soft crash, Dump yeast then add DH, (GOOD advice on the aroma!)
4/19/19 DH
4/20/19 DH
4/21/19 Pull DH out
4/22/19 Start cold crash to 34* My F chamber will take 2 days to get this low. After two days 34* is reached then keg.

Looks like a plan!
Although some ale yeasts can pump out diacetyl at sizeable rates, we shouldn't really call it a D-rest for them, it's more about general conditioning, and making sure it's finishing out as much as it can, keep 'em going.

Dry hops extract quicker at somewhat higher temps, but 60F should still be fine.
If you're bagging them, they need to be in roomy bags, so beer can move freely in and out for best extraction. Add a handful of marbles to keep them submerged.

Hops in bags tend to become a fairly dense mass (ball) due to gravity, when weighed down and suspended. Without weights, they'll first float along the surface, then slowly sink over time.

Some periodic agitation like a dunking motion (when suspended) to make them 'bloom' or a good but gentle stirring once or twice a day helps with the extraction process. Hop-rich beer goes out while fresh beer goes in.

You just need to avoid any air (O2) exposure and ingress wherever possible. Plan accordingly.
I'm not sure how to accomplish that with your fermenter. Once you open the lid to add the tight rolled up bags (low air content), air will mix with the headspace CO2 quickly. You could/should flush/purge that headspace after re-closing it, using your new CO2 valve. Maybe the best is, while flushing with CO2, to leave the lid just a tad loose from tight, so the gas mixture can slowly escape along the rim, while becoming more CO2 rich. When done screw down tight.

 

[nick sekerak]

Looks like you did everything right to get this beer to fully finish out. Keep those temps steady, or on a small incline. A sudden temp drop can cause it to stall prematurely.

Looks like a plan!
Although some ale yeasts can pump out diacetyl at sizeable rates, we shouldn't really call it a D-rest for them, it's more about general conditioning, and making sure it's finishing out as much as it can, keep 'em going.

Dry hops extract quicker at somewhat higher temps, but 60F should still be fine.
If you're bagging them, they need to be in roomy bags, so beer can move freely in and out for best extraction. Add a handful of marbles to keep them submerged.

Hops in bags tend to become a fairly dense mass (ball) due to gravity, when weighed down and suspended. Without weights, they'll first float along the surface, then slowly sink over time.

Some periodic agitation like a dunking motion (when suspended) to make them 'bloom' or a good but gentle stirring once or twice a day helps with the extraction process. Hop-rich beer goes out while fresh beer goes in.

You just need to avoid any air (O2) exposure and ingress wherever possible. Plan accordingly.
I'm not sure how to accomplish that with your fermenter. Once you open the lid to add the tight rolled up bags (low air content), air will mix with the headspace CO2 quickly. You could/should flush/purge that headspace after re-closing it, using your new CO2 valve. Maybe the best is, while flushing with CO2, to leave the lid just a tad loose from tight, so the gas mixture can slowly escape along the rim, while becoming more CO2 rich. When done screw down tight.

Just made another mod to my fermenter cap to have a pressure release. I wanted to some how mount one from a corny keg but the keg pressure releasing valve had weird plastic threads. So I used a tire valve stem I had laying around. Home brew garage tinkering at it finest lol. I hope it works.

 

[IslandLizard]

Now you can purge that headspace! ^

Not sure this is what you want to do, but something to think about perhaps.
I drilled a 1" access hole in some of my (plastic) bucket lids so I can stream CO2 in through the airlock stem while adding (loose) dry hops through the 1" 'access port' counter stream. Or stir a couple time a day during that dry hop period, again, counter stream. That same access port can also be used for racking/transfer under CO2.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ar-closed-transfer-from-bucket-to-keg.664638/

 

[couchsending]

Cool hopefully it works for yah. Just be careful you don’t turn that fermenter into a bomb. Remember that fermentation can kick up after dry hops have been added and could create some substantial pressure on it’s own.

I believe SS Brewtech does sell the small PRV they make and you could probably put it on that lid.

 

[nick sekerak]

Cool hopefully it works for yah. Just be careful you don’t turn that fermenter into a bomb. Remember that fermentation can kick up after dry hops have been added and could create some substantial pressure on it’s own.

I believe SS Brewtech does sell the small PRV they make and you could probably put it on that lid.

I got the ss brew tech PRV, its coming in the mail this thursday just in time!! Thanks for the heads up, i will feel much better having something like this on my FV so it does not explode.

 

[nick sekerak]

FERMENTATION SCHEDULE UPDATE:

(Today) 4/16/19 Holding @ 72*, (D rest day #5) test for diacetyl if ok proceed if not D rest longer, check if terminal gravity is reached

- as of this morning i am still seeing activity on my blow off tube, one bubble every 2-3 seconds. I was planning on starting the soft crash tonight but i am not at terminal gravity since there is still activity going. I am going to check the SG and run a diacetyl test this evening. Just to be clear, i want to hit terminal gravity before i soft crash right??

 

[nick sekerak]

Forced Diacetyl test passed with none detected!!! Gravity is at 1026 but bubbles still going, one single bubble every 5-6 seconds. Not sure if I should start my soft crash to 60* today or not. It’s only 4-5 gravity points from where I anticipated but who knows how long it will take?

Anyone with input on what you recommend?