Lambic Discussion Thread

[IndianaJones]

This is why PMs exist

 

[64vdub]

The only way to keep your lambic safe is stored diagonally, in a gravity-free room, in hologram form.

 

[vav1]

This is why PMs exist

I mean I already sent dick pics ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[regularjohn]

i keep my lambic stored in my belly, its getting kind of crowded in here though might have to drop some stouts off soon

 

[BadJustin]

Oh dude no worries, i don't feel interrogated at all, it's a cool subject to discuss with you, you've clearly thought about this as much as i have!

In turn:



Porosity is not the same thing as Impermeability. Many things are considered impermeable and are still porous: Our skin is a good example of this. Cork is the same way. Also, remember there are all those natural fissures/chambers/imperfections in each individual cork, all of which will expand and contract based upon all those fun variables of temperature, humidity, etc, where water/liquid can be stored and/or emptied (drying out, as it were.) Maybe i should clarify: I'm using Impermeable in the quantitative sense (e.g. permeability is measured in units of darcy.)



1: Not that i'm aware of, but i don't think you can dismiss the wine world's experience so easily. It's still a good starting point. I will grant you, however, most literature out there is more interested in the formation of TCA than the actual mechanics of oxygen seepage.

2 & 3: The variables in the liquid matter, yes, but we're primarily talking about the cork, and this whole conversation falls down if we're not speaking the same language regarding the barrier first and foremost. Carbonation, however, is definitely worth bringing up because pressure can change the permeability of the cork.

4: Yep see point 1. Again, i'm not saying this is empirical, i'm offering my hypothesis.



Agreed, actually. But, like i said, the conclusion Siebel and i came to was too in our discussions was "too many variables." Still, i kinda think that's a cop out...i'd love to see them or UC Davis do an actual study.



I would think the majority of admittance happens directly at sealing, and after that the majority probably comes from failure of the barrier itself, whether as failure to seal or failure of substrate. Occam's razor: If there's a hole you've plugging and the **** still leaks, it's probably coming from the hole. Diffusion ain't my strong point, so i dunno.

#talknerd

Christ Adam. You Stupac'd stupac2. ******* Lambic Inception.

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

I'm pretty sure you can substitute cock for cork on this whole page and it still pretty much makes sense.

 

[vav1]

Christ Adam. You Stupac'd stupac2. ******* Lambic Inception.

:v

 

[Gaseous Clay]

I'm pretty sure you can substitute cock for cork on this whole page and it still pretty much makes sense.

I do love me some wet cork

 

[SeaWatchman]

FWIW, Boon once told me that the only reason they say not to store the bottle on its side on the label is because they don't believe consumers understand the concept of moving a bottle to an upright position from a horizontal position prior to drinking.

 

[rodzm]

Interesting bottle i got today

 

[stupac2]

Oh dude no worries, i don't feel interrogated at all, it's a cool subject to discuss with you, you've clearly thought about this as much as i have!

In turn:



Porosity is not the same thing as Impermeability. Many things are considered impermeable and are still porous: Our skin is a good example of this. Cork is the same way. Also, remember there are all those natural fissures/chambers/imperfections in each individual cork, all of which will expand and contract based upon all those fun variables of temperature, humidity, etc, where water/liquid can be stored and/or emptied (drying out, as it were.) Maybe i should clarify: I'm using Impermeable in the quantitative sense (e.g. permeability is measured in units of darcy.)



1: Not that i'm aware of, but i don't think you can dismiss the wine world's experience so easily. It's still a good starting point. I will grant you, however, most literature out there is more interested in the formation of TCA than the actual mechanics of oxygen seepage.

2 & 3: The variables in the liquid matter, yes, but we're primarily talking about the cork, and this whole conversation falls down if we're not speaking the same language regarding the barrier first and foremost. Carbonation, however, is definitely worth bringing up because pressure can change the permeability of the cork.

4: Yep see point 1. Again, i'm not saying this is empirical, i'm offering my hypothesis.



Agreed, actually. But, like i said, the conclusion Siebel and i came to was too in our discussions was "too many variables." Still, i kinda think that's a cop out...i'd love to see them or UC Davis do an actual study.



I would think the majority of admittance happens directly at sealing, and after that the majority probably comes from failure of the barrier itself, whether as failure to seal or failure of substrate. Occam's razor: If there's a hole you've plugging and the **** still leaks, it's probably coming from the hole. Diffusion ain't my strong point, so i dunno.

#talknerd

I don't think that porosity is the issue here, what I'm talking about is the ability of individual molecules to diffuse through polymers (which, unless I'm misunderstanding something, cork counts as). There's not going to be a gross diffusion through there, sure, (I'm unfamiliar with the idea of Darcy because I definitely don't mean a porous material like a sponge, I'm talking straight diffusion coefficient through a barrier), but when you're thinking about something that happens at a rate on the order of mL per year individual molecules moving across the boundaries starts to matter. It does seem more likely (intuitively, to what extent you trust that) that imperfections in the seal are what matter most, but based on my extensive readings about radon diffusion through barriers and somewhat less extensive reading about water diffusion, you can't rule out straight diffusion through the seal itself.

My main concern, like I said, is that you can't have it both ways, either diffusion of water from the liquid in the bottle through the cork, keeping it moist and elastic, matters, in which case oxygen can diffuse through too*, or it doesn't matter, in which case the loss of water (and therefore contact with the liquid inside) isn't affecting elasticity meaningfully. And I'm definitely troubled by the idea that moisture can diffuse out into dry air more readily than it can be taken up from 100% humidity headspace, though I suppose that would depend on what kind of moisture concentration is necessary to keep cork elastic. It seems more likely to me that moisture content per se isn't what makes cork lose elasticity, but just general compression over time (and perhaps other chemical changes, probably some form of oxidation!), but I'd really like to see some kind of study on it.

Oh, and everyone making fun of me for this? YOU JUST MAKE ME STRONGER!!!


*O2 and H2O are different sizes and will therefore diffuse differently, but I don't think the difference is large enough to be material.

 

[Tlo4sho]

 

[Gaseous Clay]

This is great

 

[tosh1]

Be right back

Going to move all the vertical lambic to horizontal and all the horizontal to vertical

Seems the only reasonalble otption based on this discussion

 

[sacrelicio]

Turtleback is back, alright!

 

[stakem1]

FWIW, Boon once told me that the only reason they say not to store the bottle on its side on the label is because they don't believe consumers understand the concept of moving a bottle to an upright position from a horizontal position prior to drinking.

So this is how Boon thinks everyone drinks their beer?

 

[64vdub]

Interesting bottle i got today

Beer from the future!! So this makes this just whale semen cause it technically hasn't been born yet, and cannot achieve true whale status??? I think I got it right.

 

[mateoloco]

Beer from the future!! So this makes this just whale semen cause it technically hasn't been born yet, and cannot achieve true whale status??? I think I got it right.

You mail that beer to San Diego, wait 11 months, and that, kids, is how you make a whale.

 

[boogercrack]

Turtleback is back, alright!

Weirdly prominent box of Milk Bones. I normally just put out crackers and cheese for my lambic share guests.

 

[skrip]

Turtleback is back, alright!

haha! i was there for that! very interesting blend, mostly Boon dominate.

 

[lb304854]

but I'd really like to see some kind of study on it.

Aren't you some kind of scientist? Can't you just do the experiment for only vav to read?

 

[cosmicevan]

i keep my lambic stored in my belly, its getting kind of crowded in here though might have to drop some stouts off soon

Just be sure to lay on your side or your epiglottis might dry out.

 

[callmemickey]

Just be sure to lay on your side or your epiglottis might dry out.

No need, the acid reflux will keep the epiglottis moist from the inside.

 

[stupac2]

Aren't you some kind of scientist? Can't you just do the experiment for only vav to read?

I'm the wrong kind

 

[GuzzleMcBrew]

The only way to keep your lambic safe is stored diagonally, in a gravity-free room, in hologram form.

This! I've been doing this for 6 quintons and look at me!

 

[ggfunk]

It's easy.

First, assume a spherical keg...

 

[JCastle1]

unfollow thread

 

[wyatt1]

Is everyone excited for Zwanze? I’ll be at the avenue pub in New Orleans. Really looking forward to this years batch.

 

[MikeG1]

Is everyone excited for Zwanze? I’ll be at the avenue pub in New Orleans. Really looking forward to this years batch.

Heard this year's batch was stored upright. No thanks.

 

[Compton25]

Tilquin Pinot Noir at Moeder Lambic. Red grape goodness with a nice oak presence. Vanilla or cinnamon lingering spice, after several sips still can't decide which. Dangerously drinkable.