Lambic Discussion Thread

[MooseLang]

2009 GCB was burning a hole in my pocket, so I decided to pop it open last night. Really impressed me, and was a helluva lot better than the 2010 GCB I opened last year around this time. I think a combination of additional age and just some better Lambic.

Also, 50n4e was bangin'

 

[Marc2]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length but I am looking for information on "lambic in a box". All I could find was biab Oud Beersel. I am wandering if most or any other lambic producers have these available to the public? Are these typically oud lambic or are younger lambics available? Are there different sizes available or is it typically 5L boxes?

I would like to put together a blending session with a few people but I can't really find any info about this other than the biab link. I recall a couple years ago (maybe even last year) Jean had 3 bags of lambic at a festival (I want to say Florida) and people could blend them as he was talking about Gueuze.

Anyway if you have purchased these or are local and can provide the info I am looking for please shoot me a message, thanks

 

[stupac2]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length but I am looking for information on "lambic in a box". All I could find was biab Oud Beersel. I am wandering if most or any other lambic producers have these available to the public? Are these typically oud lambic or are younger lambics available? Are there different sizes available or is it typically 5L boxes?

I would like to put together a blending session with a few people but I can't really find any info about this other than the biab link. I recall a couple years ago (maybe even last year) Jean had 3 bags of lambic at a festival (I want to say Florida) and people could blend them as he was talking about Gueuze.

Anyway if you have purchased these or are local and can provide the info I am looking for please shoot me a message, thanks

I'm not sure if they still do but Cantillon used to sell unblended lambic to local people. You could just reach out and ask. Or try contacting Raf/Uli, since they're clearly getting it from somewhere.

 

[andrewcschultz]

I've got a couple of questions about how blenders handle their lambic stock. I know that there's some degree of variation in how old the vintages of lambic are when blending geuze: Girardin's blend is 12, 18 and 24 months, whereas the more typical blending ages are 1, 2 and 3 years, and of course Drie Fonteinen has Golden Blend which uses lambic up to 4 years of age. Anyways, there comes a time when a given barrel of lambic is as old as the blender uses in making geuze. For simplicity, let's say that maximum age is 3 years.

The first question: what does a blender do if a barrel winds up not being used by the time it's 3 years old? Perhaps they are on top of their inventory enough that those older barrels don't slip through the cracks. Or perhaps they have barrels which never really taste ideal to them, and so after 3 years they just get dumped. Or perhaps they even blend in the occasionally 4 year old barrel into their geuze, but don't make a fuss about labeling it as something special.

The second question: does anyone have an idea of roughly the proportion of young, medium and old lambic on hand in the barrel rooms of a blender? Or asked in a different way: for the lambic brewed in a particular season, what is the percentage that's bottled at 1 year versus 2 years vs 3 years.

 

[Lamnic]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length but I am looking for information on "lambic in a box". All I could find was biab Oud Beersel. I am wandering if most or any other lambic producers have these available to the public? Are these typically oud lambic or are younger lambics available? Are there different sizes available or is it typically 5L boxes?

I would like to put together a blending session with a few people but I can't really find any info about this other than the biab link. I recall a couple years ago (maybe even last year) Jean had 3 bags of lambic at a festival (I want to say Florida) and people could blend them as he was talking about Gueuze.

Anyway if you have purchased these or are local and can provide the info I am looking for please shoot me a message, thanks

Aside from Oud Beersel oude lambiek which is available to the public, I've see bags of lambic from Cantillon, Girardin, and Timmermans. I believe Oud Beersel is easily available to anyone who asks, Cantillon if you are a local who knows them, and I have no idea about the other two. I doubt Girardin fills bags anymore.

It's all about the discretion of the brewery. I know some don't want to fill a bag because they don't believe in that delivery of their lambic. It has risks if not taken care of properly. Perhaps if you get in touch with Frank Boon they'd get you some unblended lambic.

I blended a bag once with my own beer, and it worked exceptionally well. DM me if you have any questions about doing so. Cheers

 

[BelgianChris]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length but I am looking for information on "lambic in a box". All I could find was biab Oud Beersel. I am wandering if most or any other lambic producers have these available to the public? Are these typically oud lambic or are younger lambics available? Are there different sizes available or is it typically 5L boxes?

I would like to put together a blending session with a few people but I can't really find any info about this other than the biab link. I recall a couple years ago (maybe even last year) Jean had 3 bags of lambic at a festival (I want to say Florida) and people could blend them as he was talking about Gueuze.

Anyway if you have purchased these or are local and can provide the info I am looking for please shoot me a message, thanks

20L Boon

http://www.dorst.be/huis-van-de-geuze/oude-lambiek/boon-oude-lambiek-keykeg-20-liter

 

[simont1]

Aside from Oud Beersel oude lambiek which is available to the public, I've see bags of lambic from Cantillon, Girardin, and Timmermans. I believe Oud Beersel is easily available to anyone who asks, Cantillon if you are a local who knows them, and I have no idea about the other two. I doubt Girardin fills bags anymore.

It's all about the discretion of the brewery. I know some don't want to fill a bag because they don't believe in that delivery of their lambic. It has risks if not taken care of properly. Perhaps if you get in touch with Frank Boon they'd get you some unblended lambic.

I blended a bag once with my own beer, and it worked exceptionally well. DM me if you have any questions about doing so. Cheers

Your list can be expanded with Lindemans and De Troch. If you're stateside Girardin is a no, they believe that the boxes don't handle the pressure on the airflight.

 

[stupac2]

I've got a couple of questions about how blenders handle their lambic stock. I know that there's some degree of variation in how old the vintages of lambic are when blending geuze: Girardin's blend is 12, 18 and 24 months, whereas the more typical blending ages are 1, 2 and 3 years, and of course Drie Fonteinen has Golden Blend which uses lambic up to 4 years of age. Anyways, there comes a time when a given barrel of lambic is as old as the blender uses in making geuze. For simplicity, let's say that maximum age is 3 years.

The first question: what does a blender do if a barrel winds up not being used by the time it's 3 years old? Perhaps they are on top of their inventory enough that those older barrels don't slip through the cracks. Or perhaps they have barrels which never really taste ideal to them, and so after 3 years they just get dumped. Or perhaps they even blend in the occasionally 4 year old barrel into their geuze, but don't make a fuss about labeling it as something special.

The second question: does anyone have an idea of roughly the proportion of young, medium and old lambic on hand in the barrel rooms of a blender? Or asked in a different way: for the lambic brewed in a particular season, what is the percentage that's bottled at 1 year versus 2 years vs 3 years.

Visit De Cam sometime. When I was there (2014) he had barrels of 6-year-old lambic, maybe even older.

It seems like the answer is some sort of "staying on top of it", though I'm sure the actual system varies a lot.

 

[matedog]

Visit De Cam sometime. When I was there (2014) he had barrels of 6-year-old lambic, maybe even older.

It seems like the answer is some sort of "staying on top of it", though I'm sure the actual system varies a lot.

I get the feeling that De Cam is even less organized than Hanssens.

 

[Pneill3161]

There has been various different bags of lambics from different Brewers over the years. I've done many lambic and gueuze blends with these with great success. Unfortunately it seems Oud beersel is they only one to get currently online. The Girardins was always key for me as it was the most polarizing lambic and worked very well with making geuze blends. The best part was figuring out what percentage of blend to use in each blend, I would just go by taste testing different combinations.

 

[skrip]

There has been various different bags of lambics from different Brewers over the years. I've done many lambic and gueuze blends with these with great success. Unfortunately it seems Oud beersel is they only one to get currently online. The Girardins was always key for me as it was the most polarizing lambic and worked very well with making geuze blends. The best part was figuring out what percentage of blend to use in each blend, I would just go by taste testing different combinations.

just when i was going to tag you hahaha!

 

[Marc2]

I would just go by taste testing different combinations.

Yes obviously this would be the whole point to it. I would probably need help from someone local to grab different boxes for me as no one seems to have them available through online shops. I think it could be fun to do this with a group of friends. It would get pricey though. I would need to have these shipped to the US and then bring them in to Canada (pay duty at the border) and with the Canadian dollar vs the Euro... Not to mention some sort of thank you box (more shipping)

Still trying to figure out if this would even be worth doing at all but I think it would be an absolute blast

 

[stupac2]

I get the feeling that De Cam is even less organized than Hanssens.

The big thing is that he's only there part-time.

 

[rrryanc]

The big thing is that he's only there part-time.

Part time being he has a full time job and De Cam is his weekend "hobby." It's a cool spot though.

 

[matedog]

The big thing is that he's only there part-time.

I remember being surprised reading that Gueuze and Kriek book with how lightly staffed lambic breweries are. I think Cantillon had like 4 full time employees or something. I wonder how much part time/seasonal work staff fluctuation there is.

 

[stupac2]

I remember being surprised reading that Gueuze and Kriek book with how lightly staffed lambic breweries are. I think Cantillon had like 4 full time employees or something. I wonder how much part time/seasonal work staff fluctuation there is.

Well Cantillon actively seeks volunteers for some tasks, IIRC they get ~20 for getting the apricots ready for Fou.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Forgive me if this has been discussed at length but I am looking for information on "lambic in a box". All I could find was biab Oud Beersel. I am wandering if most or any other lambic producers have these available to the public? Are these typically oud lambic or are younger lambics available? Are there different sizes available or is it typically 5L boxes?

Girardin makes younger and older lambic available (as well as krieklambiek) in bags in box, but this is only available in Belgium as they've asked places like BiaB to stop shipping them abroad as they don't believe they travel very well, as others have noted already. Keep in mind that young lambic will ferment in the bag making it a bit explosive. Whether or not the webshops respect those wishes is another story, but yeah they mostly come in 5L bags. The system is actually pretty simple and it seems most brewer/blenders know where to get ahold of unused bags in box to fill on a whim. For example, Pierre took four different bags in box (three component lambics and his blend of them) to Amsterdam for Carnivale Brettanomyces in June. He filled them up just a couple days before from his barrels. Others that are or have been available have been Lindemans, De Troch, Timmermans, and Beersel but to varying degrees of availability. If you're local it's also easier to get them on demand. You'll also sometimes see locals coming and filling up plastic jugs with spigots on them. I once knew a guy who used to go to Lindemans and get waterbottles filled with lambic just to drink.

I'm not sure if they still do but Cantillon used to sell unblended lambic to local people. You could just reach out and ask. Or try contacting Raf/Uli, since they're clearly getting it from somewhere.

They definitely don't do this anymore except for some old locals who had been doing it for years and years. There was one older guy who came in every time I was there on the last trip getting his brown plastic jug that looked like a barrel filled up. Most of the time when you see Cantillon lambic referenced anymore on those kinds of blends it means they've taken a bunch of Bruocsella and put it into the blend.

The first question: what does a blender do if a barrel winds up not being used by the time it's 3 years old? Perhaps they are on top of their inventory enough that those older barrels don't slip through the cracks. Or perhaps they have barrels which never really taste ideal to them, and so after 3 years they just get dumped. Or perhaps they even blend in the occasionally 4 year old barrel into their geuze, but don't make a fuss about labeling it as something special.

I think it's a combination of knowing what's in your barrels, how they're behaving, and when/how you think you can blend them or blend out any of the off flavors that are in there. There are definitely older barrels though that get bottled individually or whatever (See: LH12). You know the phrase they have written at Cantillon. Le temps ne respect pas blah blah blah. I know that Girardin has let some barrels go and never used them/got rid of them because they were three+ years old.

The second question: does anyone have an idea of roughly the proportion of young, medium and old lambic on hand in the barrel rooms of a blender? Or asked in a different way: for the lambic brewed in a particular season, what is the percentage that's bottled at 1 year versus 2 years vs 3 years.

Tilquin gueuze is tpically comprised of 50% one-year old lambic, 30% two-year old lambic, and 20% three-year old lambic, so that gives you a rough idea. And even within that breakdown, Pierre generally uses a pretty specific ratio of barrels whose wort came from different places. I am pretty sure I have notes on the Cantillon ratio for the gueuze as well that I need to dig out. When Jean talks about blending gueuze he talks about blending it to an average age of lambic, but I forget what the exact number is. Interestingly, Jean went outside the norm a bit when he did the Chouke by using equal parts 1, 2, and 3 year old lambic.

 

[Marc2]

Others that are or have been available have been Lindemans, De Troch, Timmermans, and Beersel but to varying degrees of availability

Other than Girardin and Beersel are any other known for making these available?

 

[SeaWatchman]

Other than Beersel are any other known for making these available?

Internationally? Unsure. BiaB was selling Timmermans bags for a bit though.

 

[Compton25]

Girardin makes younger and older lambic available (as well as krieklambiek) in bags in box, but this is only available in Belgium as they've asked places like BiaB to stop shipping them abroad as they don't believe they travel very well, as others have noted already. Keep in mind that young lambic will ferment in the bag making it a bit explosive. Whether or not the webshops respect those wishes is another story, but yeah they mostly come in 5L bags. The system is actually pretty simple and it seems most brewer/blenders know where to get ahold of unused bags in box to fill on a whim. For example, Pierre took four different bags in box (three component lambics and his blend of them) to Amsterdam for Carnivale Brettanomyces in June. He filled them up just a couple days before from his barrels. Others that are or have been available have been Lindemans, De Troch, Timmermans, and Beersel but to varying degrees of availability. If you're local it's also easier to get them on demand. You'll also sometimes see locals coming and filling up plastic jugs with spigots on them. I once knew a guy who used to go to Lindemans and get waterbottles filled with lambic just to drink.



They definitely don't do this anymore except for some old locals who had been doing it for years and years. There was one older guy who came in every time I was there on the last trip getting his brown plastic jug that looked like a barrel filled up. Most of the time when you see Cantillon lambic referenced anymore on those kinds of blends it means they've taken a bunch of Bruocsella and put it into the blend.



I think it's a combination of knowing what's in your barrels, how they're behaving, and when/how you think you can blend them or blend out any of the off flavors that are in there. There are definitely older barrels though that get bottled individually or whatever (See: LH12). You know the phrase they have written at Cantillon. Le temps ne respect pas blah blah blah. I know that Girardin has let some barrels go and never used them/got rid of them because they were three+ years old.



Tilquin gueuze is tpically comprised of 50% one-year old lambic, 30% two-year old lambic, and 20% three-year old lambic, so that gives you a rough idea. And even within that breakdown, Pierre generally uses a pretty specific ratio of barrels whose wort came from different places. I am pretty sure I have notes on the Cantillon ratio for the gueuze as well that I need to dig out. When Jean talks about blending gueuze he talks about blending it to an average age of lambic, but I forget what the exact number is. Interestingly, Jean went outside the norm a bit when he did the Chouke by using equal parts 1, 2, and 3 year old lambic.

Getting real tired of your brief posts. How about some detailed information next time?

 

[Marc2]

Internationally? Unsure. BiaB was selling Timmermans bags for a bit though.

I would of course be going through a local proxy if I can find one. Biab only carries Beersel atm. Since you said "varying degrees of availability" I was wondering if any were know to be more available other than the 2 we know. Thank you for that great response. I will try and find someone local who could verify availability and/or proxy these for me

 

[iong516]

Bullfrog Cacao Kriek compared with Cantillon December 28 2015...

The cacao really stands out, the cherries are lost one me. Tastes like lambic but not like great lambic, idk.

 

[thunderbirdesq]

Bullfrog Cacao Kriek compared with Cantillon December 28 2015...

The cacao really stands out, the cherries are lost one me. Tastes like lambic but not like great lambic, idk.

My goodness there is a lunaire glass. I had no clue.

 

[iong516]

I need to proper it soon

 

[tosh1]

Nothing special. But Monday drinking

 

[JCastle1]

Nothing special. But Monday drinking

Wish that was my Monday drinking.

 

[RLD]

I know this is the lambic discussion thread, but bullfrog is doing awesome things. I recently brought a kriek bio to the 3rd St facility and did a side by side with grrrz kriek. It was a LOT closer than I would have expected. In fact, what he poured me from the tank may have been even better. I've noticed that his beers sometimes take a turn in the wrong direction when refermented in the bottle. Keep an eye out for black currant "Cassis" grrrz in the somewhat near future. It's my favorite beer from them to date.

Bullfrog Cacao Kriek compared with Cantillon December 28 2015...

The cacao really stands out, the cherries are lost one me. Tastes like lambic but not like great lambic, idk.

 

[iong516]

I've been really impressed by their kegged grrz and grrz Plum, maybe bottling is their issue? Never have been as wowed by their bottles but haven't had a ton. Hm.

 

[GuzzleMcBrew]

Bullfrog Cacao Kriek compared with Cantillon December 28 2015...

The cacao really stands out, the cherries are lost one me. Tastes like lambic but not like great lambic, idk.

I know this is the lambic discussion thread, but bullfrog is doing awesome things. I recently brought a kriek bio to the 3rd St facility and did a side by side with grrrz kriek. It was a LOT closer than I would have expected. In fact, what he poured me from the tank may have been even better. I've noticed that his beers sometimes take a turn in the wrong direction when refermented in the bottle. Keep an eye out for black currant "Cassis" grrrz in the somewhat near future. It's my favorite beer from them to date.

That Cacao Kriek was brought along by the Bullfrog guys to the "Crazy Party" Bokker event at Grumpy's house. It was in a some kind of cool little stonewear jug, so I am going to assume it might have been hand bottled. Seemed like the Kriek definitely held its own in many opinions, even in the company of some really amazing lambic bottles both old and new. Et Tu Brut also made an appearance, which was much different, but also really good, just less lambic like- very soft.

 

[MikeG1]

What's the consensus on 3F Intense Red? Have had it twice so far - first time was years ago at a Top Hops share and I remember it being ridiculously cherry-pie-like. Had it again last year while pretty drunk at Monk's and it wasn't any better than the regular 3F Kriek we ordered alongside it. Thinking of adding a bottle to my Etre box but at 29 Euro, would it be better to just throw in a few Tomes instead?