Lambic Discussion Thread

[Hookemhops13]

I just heard case limit at the brewery - sounds like all those shelf HF lambics right?

But seriously, even until about a year or two ago I could occasionally find Iris, Classic, even St Lam and Fou on shelves around here. Last time I saw St Lam on the shelf it was there for about a week before it was all bought up. Still no Tilquin or 3F to be found in RI though.

Ya ummm next time that happens buy what you want then buy the rest and message me. K THNX!!

 

[SeaWatchman]

So there are at least two bottlings of Lou Pepe Gueuze w/ the 2011 vintage sticker:

12/30/2013, European labeling
01/27/2014, Shelton Brothers labeling, cork date doesn't match bottling year (2013)

 

[Dsal891]

So there are at least two bottlings of Lou Pepe Gueuze w/ the 2011 vintage sticker:

12/30/2013, European labeling
01/27/2014, Shelton Brothers labeling, cork date doesn't match bottling year (2013)

Curious about the date on mine now. I'll have to check

 

[Beerologist]

For real. I gotta move to Rhode Island. stupac2 says nothing but great things about that place.

You may notice I said that was 1-2 years ago (closer to 2 since they were 2012's). Shop had something like six bottles (~$30 or $35/bottle. I grabbed 1 and then a second about a week later. Now you must know the secret password to purchase any Cantillon.

I guess there may be several reasons that RI is known as the Kentucky of New England

 

[bahnfire]

Had a '14 375 rose this past Saturday. Bottled in December, this is the freshest rose I've had. It is face melting sour. Proceed with caution

I've opened 2-3 of these and found them all to be delicious. Very jammy and not terribly sour, but like anything I've sure there is bottle variation.

 

[BusinessSloth]

I've opened 2-3 of these and found them all to be delicious. Very jammy and not terribly sour, but like anything I've sure there is bottle variation.

yeah bottle variation or something. Had a '14 Kriek which was also curiously a 375ml, and it was face-puckering sour. Little cherry to be found.

 

[pmoney]

yeah bottle variation or something. Had a '14 Kriek which was also curiously a 375ml, and it was face-puckering sour. Little cherry to be found.

And for the sake of comparing, I opened a '14 Kriek 750ml on Friday that was very balanced and not all that sour.

 

[mikecharley]

I've opened 2-3 of these and found them all to be delicious. Very jammy and not terribly sour, but like anything I've sure there is bottle variation.

The raspberry was definition present, but it was crazy sour. Not in a bad way, just very very acidic.

Edit: now that I think about it, it's the sourest loon ive had in a few years, probably since 2012 kriek 375s. Much more sour than the past few years of gueuze

 

[ncaudle]

A ******* week? Would be snatched up in a matter of hours 'round herr.

o, shut up
at least Maryland gets it period. Shelton Bros doesn't like their VA distributor so we get shafted on good stuff (haven't heard of more than a half case of regular Bio Geueze hitting RVA in the past 3+ years).

 

[SeaWatchman]

o, shut up
at least Maryland gets it period. Shelton Bros doesn't like their VA distributor so we get shafted on good stuff (haven't heard of more than a half case of regular Bio Geueze hitting RVA in the past 3+ years).

Is it Specialty or Hop & Wine in VA? I forget but I fought for two years to get a 6btl case of Classic at the store I worked at. Finally got one in 2010 and it's still sitting unopened in my cellar.

 

[Hookemhops13]

A ******* week? Would be snatched up in a matter of hours 'round herr.

o, shut up
at least Maryland gets it period. Shelton Bros doesn't like their VA distributor so we get shafted on good stuff (haven't heard of more than a half case of regular Bio Geueze hitting RVA in the past 3+ years).

Lol let's not play the who gets less lambic distribution game. Pretty sure Texas/Oklahoma (and I'm sure some other sourhern states) have that argument locked up.

 

[ncaudle]

Is it Specialty or Hop & Wine in VA? I forget but I fought for two years to get a 6btl case of Classic at the store I worked at. Finally got one in 2010 and it's still sitting unopened in my cellar.

that's part of the issue. H&W hold the Virginia ABC registrations but Shelton says it should be Specialty. doesn't stop Shelton from sending other products in their portfolio to H&W but they won't send Cantillon, Fantome, etc unless it's almost always exclusively for Birch Bar in Norfolk

 

[SeaWatchman]

that's part of the issue. H&W hold the Virginia ABC registrations but Shelton says it should be Specialty. doesn't stop Shelton from sending other products in their portfolio to H&W but they won't send Cantillon, Fantome, etc unless it's almost always exclusively for Birch Bar in Norfolk

Yeah, still playing that game I see. CA is so ****** up.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Ugh not CA, VA. **** you autocorrect.

 

[Dsal891]

Hey SealWatchman was it you that posted about the scarenbecca kriek a couple weeks ago?

Just curious because I have a 2011 on the way and wanted to know how it was.


Also have a 2013

 

[Dsal891]

I'm taking that as a no?

 

[GetchaPull]

I'm taking that as a no?

 

[LukeAleTime]

duketheredeemer I'm told you may know - any idea if Brett Brux/L have been found in the wild elsewhere?

If no, would that mean Lambic is technically tied to geography despite only having TSG? (that's more a general question)

 

[drgarage1]

duketheredeemer I'm told you may know - any idea if Brett Brux/L have been found in the wild elsewhere?

If no, would that mean Lambic is technically tied to geography despite only having TSG? (that's more a general question)

degardebrewing would be a good person to talk to, as well.

From what I've read, all of the species of microbes that wind up in lambic have been cultured from the air/found in the wild pretty much everywhere on the planet. The specific strains might be different, and likely are, just because of inevitable branching in isolation of colonies, but not necessarily more different than 3F v. Cantillon.

Similarly, the lacto strain in sourdough is sanfranciscensis, under the incorrect belief it was only native to the Bay Area. It's been found across the globe.

 

[duketheredeemer]

duketheredeemer I'm told you may know - any idea if Brett Brux/L have been found in the wild elsewhere?

If no, would that mean Lambic is technically tied to geography despite only having TSG? (that's more a general question)

Brett brux has been found all over the world, but I don't think that really answers your question. Species delineation in the microbio world is kind of a weird, nebulous thing. Just because two strains of B. brux are both in the same species doesn't mean that they will behave the same way, grow at the same rate, or excrete the same compounds in the same ratios as one another. Given the very quick rate at which most microorganisms important to beer divide at, evolution can progress at rates that are vastly higher than for macroscopic organisms (for whom the definition of species can also be pretty nebulous!), so that two populations separated by a few miles and a few years can be very different from one another. As an example, look at the massive variety of yeasts that are available from places like Wyeast and whatnot. The vast majority of them are just a single species -- Saccharomyces cerevisiae -- but they are most definitely very distinct from one another.

So, in summary, yes, Brett brux has been found all over the place, but no, that doesn't mean that Lambic isn't tied to the geography.

 

[LukeAleTime]

Brett brux has been found all over the world, but I don't think that really answers your question. Species delineation in the microbio world is kind of a weird, nebulous thing. Just because two strains of B. brux are both in the same species doesn't mean that they will behave the same way, grow at the same rate, or excrete the same compounds in the same ratios as one another. Given the very quick rate at which most microorganisms important to beer divide at, evolution can progress at rates that are vastly higher than for macroscopic organisms (for whom the definition of species can also be pretty nebulous!), so that two populations separated by a few miles and a few years can be very different from one another. As an example, look at the massive variety of yeasts that are available from places like Wyeast and whatnot. The vast majority of them are just a single species -- Saccharomyces cerevisiae -- but they are most definitely very distinct from one another.

So, in summary, yes, Brett brux has been found all over the place, but no, that doesn't mean that Lambic isn't tied to the geography.

Great - way more confused now than I was earlier!

(thanks, that's handy)

 

[SeaWatchman]

Great - way more confused now than I was earlier!

(thanks, that's handy)

You should hear him talk about gravity.

 

[duketheredeemer]

Great - way more confused now than I was earlier!

(thanks, that's handy)

Basically just like dogs are all one species but they come in all different forms and stuff, there are all different kinds of Brett brux as well. But it's worse because they're microorganisms and they divide way faster, so they evolve way faster.

I guess what I'm saying is making a beer with schipperkes isn't like making a beer with beantown terriers.

 

[LukeAleTime]

Basically just like dogs are all one species but they come in all different forms and stuff, there are all different kinds of Brett brux as well. But it's worse because they're microorganisms and they divide way faster, so they evolve way faster.

I guess what I'm saying is making a beer with schipperkes isn't like making a beer with beantown terriers.

The reason I'm asking because the TSG application has this requirement.

Acid beer whose aromatic profile is characterized by an ageing process in which the
genus Brettanomyces Bruxellensis and/or Lambicus is a determining microbial component

But in reality it might not be a great way of defining it, given the parameters you've pointed out?

 

[drgarage1]

Basically just like dogs are all one species but they come in all different forms and stuff, there are all different kinds of Brett brux as well. But it's worse because they're microorganisms and they divide way faster, so they evolve way faster.

I guess what I'm saying is making a beer with schipperkes isn't like making a beer with beantown terriers.

Although, and I'm almost certainly out of my depth here, doesn't brett evolve slower than Sacchromyces, simply because brett is asexual, so it's changes are solely from mutation, as opposed to from both mutation and from sexual reproduction?

 

[jbeezification1]

I always thought Sacchromyces was the sexier strain I just never knew why.

 

[stupac2]

Although, and I'm almost certainly out of my depth here, doesn't brett evolve slower than Sacchromyces, simply because brett is asexual, so it's changes are solely from mutation, as opposed to from both mutation and from sexual reproduction?

IIRC that's just a hypothesis for why sexual reproduction evolved. But if it's been shown that sexual reproduction leads to faster evolution it'd be pretty cool.

 

[duketheredeemer]

Although, and I'm almost certainly out of my depth here, doesn't brett evolve slower than Sacchromyces, simply because brett is asexual, so it's changes are solely from mutation, as opposed to from both mutation and from sexual reproduction?

Probably? I would suspect the same, but it's hard to say without seeing the numbers. Most of the Brett growth in beer is pretty slow compared to Sacc, too.

 

[duketheredeemer]

The reason I'm asking because the TSG application has this requirement.



But in reality it might not be a great way of defining it, given the parameters you've pointed out?

The Surgeon General?

I don't think it's a bad definition, just perhaps incomplete. I think a reference to location would help, though that is somewhat controversial.

 

[BusinessSloth]

50+ bottles of 2014 3 Fonteinen Oude Geuze went in a matter of hours off Etre. Glad I decided to grab a few. Lambic game is too whack now.