Lambic Discussion Thread

[holldy01]

Tilquin sits around me but its pricey-I think mid to high $20s for 750s.

 

[MikeG1]

First time ordering from Etre in a while - do they generally never update your box with shipping info, and the box just basically arrives on your doorstep one day like BiAB tends to do?

 

[NClambicguy]

First time ordering from Etre in a while - do they generally never update your box with shipping info, and the box just basically arrives on your doorstep one day like BiAB tends to do?

Nah they send tracking info. Check your spam as mine regularly goes there

 

[Dbijnagte]

First time ordering from Etre in a while - do they generally never update your box with shipping info, and the box just basically arrives on your doorstep one day like BiAB tends to do?

My last box didn’t but usually they do. Etre tends to ship quicker in my experience.

 

[MikeG1]

Nah they send tracking info. Check your spam as mine regularly goes there

And there it is! Thanks!

 

[pen15clubmember]

Sounds good. I am long term aging stuff (certainly 10+ years), but mostly lambic. I do however have a few crates of Westvleteren 12 , which I guess would benefit from a bit colder temperatures.

Different strokes, but I just had a 12 from '10 and one from over the summer and the fresh one was light years better IMO. I always thought the conventional wisdom on Westvleterens was aged is better, but I'm not so sure anymore. Edit: also, I could just have aged it too damn long. Could be a sweet spot in like the 3-5 year range. I don't recall the ages on 12s and 8s I've had over the years.

 

[JCastle1]

Different strokes, but I just had a 12 from '10 and one from over the summer and the fresh one was light years better IMO. I always thought the conventional wisdom on Westvleterens was aged is better, but I'm not so sure anymore. Edit: also, I could just have aged it too damn long. Could be a sweet spot in like the 3-5 year range. I don't recall the ages on 12s and 8s I've had over the years.

I had an aged Westy once and it was a sour mess. Think it was 4 years old. Enjoyed it when I had it fresh in Belgium though.

 

[DariusDaBone]

#NotLambic, but with the Westvleteren talk i figured i would ask. Lost Abbey just announced tickets for b4 of Duck Duck Gooze will go on sale next month, and it will be $45 a bottle. I’m trying to understand why people would spend that kind of money on a red wine barrelled imitation of gueuze. Does anyone in this thread have a take on DDG?

 

[stupac2]

Different strokes, but I just had a 12 from '10 and one from over the summer and the fresh one was light years better IMO. I always thought the conventional wisdom on Westvleterens was aged is better, but I'm not so sure anymore. Edit: also, I could just have aged it too damn long. Could be a sweet spot in like the 3-5 year range. I don't recall the ages on 12s and 8s I've had over the years.

This is pretty off-topic for this thread but unless BadJustin wants to move things to the quad thread I'm just gonna keep responding. It depends a lot. First, when you say fresh, how fresh? If you're getting it at In de Vrede or very young, then it has a pronounced hop character that you might not expect from a quad. If you're talking about the more normal "6 months to a year" for the average American to get it, then that's faded quite a bit, and from there out the changes are more subtle.

From then on the general trend is increasing "aging" flavors (things like dried fruit/raisins, sherry, caramel, etc) with a chance of increasing cardboard/mustiness/sourness. But there can be a lot of variation, I've had 5-year-old bottles that tasted like a basement and just the other day had a 25+ year old 8 that had no detectable off flavors whatsoever. I wouldn't say there's necessarily a "sweet spot" so much as there's a general trend toward off flavors being more likely, but it's by no means assured and the randomness is part of the fun with older bottles.

I will say that in my experience the odds of a bad bottle that's <10 years old aren't all that high, probably like 10% or less, and even the very old ones that I've had have been pleasant more often than not. Though my experience may be biased, and I may be somewhat predisposed to liking them.

At any rate if anyone's in the bay area and wants to try some aged Westy just hit me up, I have a bunch and am always down to open one.

#NotLambic, but with the Westvleteren talk i figured i would ask. Lost Abbey just announced tickets for b4 of Duck Duck Gooze will go on sale next month, and it will be $45 a bottle. I’m trying to understand why people would spend that kind of money on a red wine barrelled imitation of gueuze. Does anyone in this thread have a take on DDG?

B1 was really good and aged really well, none of the rest of them have been worth going after. I dunno what magic Lost Abbey used to have, but I think it's largely gone now. Or my standards have gone up in the intervening years idk.

 

[pen15clubmember]

It was fresh at the cafe in early July and from the same sixer within the last two weeks, so 8ish months old. Don't get me wrong, I didn't think the 10 was bad but would def say the mustiness you mention was more prominent than I would like. I plan to lay down one or two FWIW.

Also more on topic, I know BFM isn't technically lambic but does anyone know if they spontaneously ferment their sour beers? Not finding anything about it online, so I'm guessing it's a no...

 

[steinbbr]

Posted this bottle in the DDT, but figured I’d comment over here. Noticing how much color this has lost. Bottle is still fairly young 16’ and the color has really dropped off! Becoming a ruddy brown. Smell and taste are still wonderful though.

 

[lazerviking]

Got some really good news at work today so I decided to open a Lente. Spring is next week so I thought it was close enough. Worried this is falling off a bit. Still tasting great, but not terribly distinguishable from 3F OG.

 

[andrewdrinks]

B1 was really good and aged really well, none of the rest of them have been worth going after. I dunno what magic Lost Abbey used to have, but I think it's largely gone now. Or my standards have gone up in the intervening years idk.

Lost Abbey dropped off my radar from about 2013 til 17 - primarily because there were hardly any of their beers coming over to Europe - but taking a punt on S&S membership when I moved out here was a stroke of luck. With maybe one exception, everything I had from them last year was top drawer (Falling Rock and the two Veritases were amazing), and I’ve gone in for a couple of DDGs.

Given their price points and the wealth of quality beer around now, they would likely be in trouble if they weren’t meeting a decent quality bar. For sure the OG reputation wouldn’t have counted for much if the S&S bottles had sucked.

 

[steinbbr]

View attachment 5592 Got some really good news at work today so I decided to open a Lente. Spring is next week so I thought it was close enough. Worried this is falling off a bit. Still tasting great, but not terribly distinguishable from 3F OG.

Congrats! Anyone opened a herfst or zomer recently? Would be interesting to hear how they are doing.

 

[stupac2]

Lost Abbey dropped off my radar from about 2013 til 17 - primarily because there were hardly any of their beers coming over to Europe - but taking a punt on S&S membership when I moved out here was a stroke of luck. With maybe one exception, everything I had from them last year was top drawer (Falling Rock and the two Veritases were amazing), and I’ve gone in for a couple of DDGs.

Given their price points and the wealth of quality beer around now, they would likely be in trouble if they weren’t meeting a decent quality bar. For sure the OG reputation wouldn’t have counted for much if the S&S bottles had sucked.

Fair, I stopped caring about them during that interim period when nothing they put out was remarkable.

Congrats! Anyone opened a herfst or zomer recently? Would be interesting to hear how they are doing.

At this point it's all bottle variation. Last ones I had were all over the map compared to what you'd expect, IIRC Lente and Zomer disappointed, Winter was the best.

 

[mjohnson171]

Congrats! Anyone opened a herfst or zomer recently? Would be interesting to hear how they are doing.

I opened a Herfst about 9 months ago and it was still damn tasty but not tasting as amazing as it was a few years ago. For my taste I think it’s peaked and is on a gradual decline.

 

[iong516]

bottle variation

This

 

[steinbbr]

I opened a Herfst about 9 months ago and it was still damn tasty but not tasting as amazing as it was a few years ago. For my taste I think it’s peaked and is on a gradual decline.

Good to know. I’ve got a bottle, but never had it. Trying to figure when to open it... sounds like soon.

 

[iong516]

Good to know. I’ve got a bottle, but never had it. Trying to figure when to open it... sounds like soon.

I've heard of bad Herfst bottles since the first one I had in 2015, haven't had a disappointing experience yet...

 

[wuntrikpony]

Had a Zomer a few months ago that I know wasn't stored properly. Definitely on it's way downhill, but still delicious.

 

[matedog]

B1 was really good and aged really well, none of the rest of them have been worth going after. I dunno what magic Lost Abbey used to have, but I think it's largely gone now. Or my standards have gone up in the intervening years idk.

I think 2009 and for a few years after, American barrel aged sours were still quite rare. Particularly good ones. I think the proliferation of well executed takes on the style really lessens the impact and modern day importance of DDG and Cable Car etc.

That being said, I had CC and veritas Kriek at LA night at Toronado and was annoyed by how good they were. Kinda upends my theory a little bit.

Lastly, I went in 13 and 16 but am passing this year. Mostly because of kid but also the price tag and lack of shipping and lack of interest.

 

[SeaWatchman]

Doing a little #forscience geuze action tonight. About 3 or 4 years ago I ordered a crate of the 25cl capped Oude Geuze Boon with the intention of aging them to see how they developed. At the same time I also picked up some of the same season in 37,5cl corked and caged bottles as close to the same date as I could find. Both of these have been stored upright in my cellar for approximately the same amount of time. Cellar temp is currently 55.3F. There is a major caveat here: each blend of geuze is its own blend, so I’m not expecting these to be the same.

On the left is a 37,5cl bottled with a best before date of 10 Feb 2037, Lot #72503, Season 2014-2015. The nose is really cheesy with a farm like funkiness that is really ok on point for a geuze. If you’ve opened a lot of Boon bottles then you know the smell. The taste is bright with a nice citrus acidity bolstered by a nice lactic sourness that gets rounded out by a stony minerality. The color is a nice straw orange that’s somewhat hazy after the pour. The carbonation remains active and prickly on the tongue as well as in the glass. Overall this to me is a textbook geuze blend. Not as challenging as some other blends but one that can be enjoyed across the board.

On the right is a 25cl capped bottled with a best before date of 26 February 2036, Lot #L60571, Season 2014-2015. Interestingly this is one year less than the bigger bottle. Immediately the color is different. Though clearer, it’s a much deeper copper color than the larger bottle. The nose on this bottle is certainly much sweeter, much maltier, and much older. If you’ve had any old Belgian beer before, you’ll know the sweet musty smell immediately. The taste is sharp and assertive but there is a sweetness that’s developing that will eliminate any trace of complexity I’m afraid. There’s not a lot of acidity or funkiness here, but there is an underlying breadlines and toastiness that’s starting to carry it away from what it was when it was freshly bottled.
Overall the taste is somewhat stale and trending towards oxidized. The carbonation is still holding up well but it’s a chewier/creamier consistency than one of active effervescence.

Given the similar storage conditions and ages, I can see where the smaller bottle is aging quite a bit more quickly. The last one I opened was about 6 months ago and it wasn’t quite like this. I opened another one from the same crate to check against bottle variation and it was essentially the same. Whereas the 37,5 is exactly where it seems it should be for the age, if tastes blind I would say that the 25cl was quite a bit older. Both were fun to drink and compare in their own ways though!

 

[macpete]

It's hard to say. Like I've had some magical bottles of Westy from De Heeren and their on-site aging is literally just a basement (and it's not even that far underground!). They're cagier about the off-site stuff but I have a hard time believing it's that much better. Same deal with Kulminator, I've had 25+ year old beers there with no hints of flaws and it's just aging in a basement in Antwerp. These places are all going to have similar temperature fluctuations as any other basement. I suppose you could argue that we're like 1C warmer now than when those were put down, but that's not going to make much difference.

My philosophy is that the natural fluctuations in a reasonable basement probably won't hurt, but that it's worth taking relatively easy steps to mitigate the really bad ones (which is why I insulated my space a bit against the hotter parts of the house). If it's not ideal you should be able to find out "relatively" quickly (like 3-5 years) and change plans then.

Some good points you bring up. I've had 80's Stille Nacht from Kulminator that was absolutely stellar (but also some fruited Eylenbosch lambic that was way over the hill). So far, I've had non-lambic beers age well for 5-6 years in my cellar showing no signs of quick deterioration. I'd like to think that my cellar conditions are somewhat similar to those at Kulminator...

 

[macpete]

Doing a little #forscience geuze action tonight. About 3 or 4 years ago I ordered a crate of the 25cl capped Oude Geuze Boon with the intention of aging them to see how they developed. At the same time I also picked up some of the same season in 37,5cl corked and caged bottles as close to the same date as I could find. Both of these have been stored upright in my cellar for approximately the same amount of time. Cellar temp is currently 55.3F. There is a major caveat here: each blend of geuze is its own blend, so I’m not expecting these to be the same.

On the left is a 37,5cl bottled with a best before date of 10 Feb 2037, Lot #72503, Season 2014-2015. The nose is really cheesy with a farm like funkiness that is really ok on point for a geuze. If you’ve opened a lot of Boon bottles then you know the smell. The taste is bright with a nice citrus acidity bolstered by a nice lactic sourness that gets rounded out by a stony minerality. The color is a nice straw orange that’s somewhat hazy after the pour. The carbonation remains active and prickly on the tongue as well as in the glass. Overall this to me is a textbook geuze blend. Not as challenging as some other blends but one that can be enjoyed across the board.

On the right is a 25cl capped bottled with a best before date of 26 February 2036, Lot #L60571, Season 2014-2015. Interestingly this is one year less than the bigger bottle. Immediately the color is different. Though clearer, it’s a much deeper copper color than the larger bottle. The nose on this bottle is certainly much sweeter, much maltier, and much older. If you’ve had any old Belgian beer before, you’ll know the sweet musty smell immediately. The taste is sharp and assertive but there is a sweetness that’s developing that will eliminate any trace of complexity I’m afraid. There’s not a lot of acidity or funkiness here, but there is an underlying breadlines and toastiness that’s starting to carry it away from what it was when it was freshly bottled.
Overall the taste is somewhat stale and trending towards oxidized. The carbonation is still holding up well but it’s a chewier/creamier consistency than one of active effervescence.

Given the similar storage conditions and ages, I can see where the smaller bottle is aging quite a bit more quickly. The last one I opened was about 6 months ago and it wasn’t quite like this. I opened another one from the same crate to check against bottle variation and it was essentially the same. Whereas the 37,5 is exactly where it seems it should be for the age, if tastes blind I would say that the 25cl was quite a bit older. Both were fun to drink and compare in their own ways though!

Great post! I go through a lot of the 25cl bottles of Boon, but are yet to try age them. Inspired by your post, I think I'll put 10 of them in my cellar to follow how they develop....

 

[iong516]

Great post! I go through a lot of the 25cl bottles of Boon, but are yet to try age them. Inspired by your post, I think I'll put 10 of them in my cellar to follow how they develop....

Sounds like ~not great, quickly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[macpete]

Sounds like ~not great, quickly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It all depends... Could also be a shortcut to aged geueze In any case, batch variation plays a big role in lambic, so its worth carrying out a few experiments before drawing any final conclusions.

Anyway, what are the thoughts on the science behind the (potential) difference? Increased oxygen exposure through crown cap? Smaller bottle size? Different bottling proces?

 

[BadJustin]

It all depends... Could also be a shortcut to aged geueze In any case, batch variation plays a big role in lambic, so its worth carrying out a few experiments before drawing any final conclusions.

Anyway, what are the thoughts on the science behind the (potential) difference? Increased oxygen exposure through crown cap? Smaller bottle size? Different bottling proces?

There is a major caveat here: each blend of geuze is its own blend, so I’m not expecting these to be the same.

 

[user 308679]

View attachment 5592 Got some really good news at work today so I decided to open a Lente. Spring is next week so I thought it was close enough. Worried this is falling off a bit. Still tasting great, but not terribly distinguishable from 3F OG.

I sure hope not. Sitting on one more Seasons set to open on the big 5-ohhh birthday next year. They’ve been stored in a climate controlled wine cellar for years. Hopefully that helps.

 

[stakem1]

I sure hope not. Sitting on one more Seasons set to open on the big 5-ohhh birthday next year. They’ve been stored in a climate controlled wine cellar for years. Hopefully that helps.

If it makes any difference, about 8 months ago I checked in on a set and it was my first time drinking them since they were originally released.

Each season was uniquely identifiable as being different from the others in a much more prominent and distinguishable way than I remembered them being. I think being able to drink them side by side or in close succession to one another allows you to be more critical in comprison - but maybe thats just me.

Lente originally was my favorite and that still held true with its persistent citrus character. Zomer was less fruity/citrus and has picked up more mineral focus. Herfts was minty and had more of a funk/mildew/cheese thing going on and winter was my least favorite with some oxidation and must.

Just for science, in this tasting we added an OG bottle from the same time period as well as A&T. The plain jane OG felt like a cuvee of all the seaons with distinct familiarity from each - a citrus/rindy upfront and a bit of maltiness and oxidation in the finish. The A&T was peppery and bone dry, most akin to Zomer.

 

[Chouffe]

Oh, Oh, I can answer this! So when I first started getting into Lambic I discovered Tilquin via a trade. I recall my LBS had like 6 375's that has been sitting on the shelf for literally years. Top shelf, flouescent lights, that kind of stuff. So I bought them. I distinctly remember opening one with Chouffe outside at my old place during a small share one night (the night we drank Peleg B1 and some dude puked in the bushes) and sure as ****, skunked like a ************. All the other 5 were as well. So, in my experience, yeah but I bet it would take quite some time.

That was an interesting evening, to sat the least.