Lambic Discussion Thread

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stupac2 said:
Absolutely not me. All of those "here's Cantillon gueuze, BUT IN A DIFFERENT BARREL!!!!" beers are worse than Cantillon Gueuze, IMO.
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9Mi4s.gif


If 50n and/or Crianza were regularly available along with the Classic Gueuze there isn't even a question as to which ones I'd take.

Edit: I literally changed the gif in this post three times to convey the right response.
 
stupac2 said:
Absolutely not me. All of those "here's Cantillon gueuze, BUT IN A DIFFERENT BARREL!!!!" beers are worse than Cantillon Gueuze, IMO.
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I was tempted on a certain site, but damn it's a lot of cash I could be spending on a lot moar beerz.

Michigan said:
I just found it thick and syrupy. It was a very heavy drink and NOT what I expected. Maybe a splash of champagne would lighten it up!

I don't think Grand Cru Bruocsella is underrated. I love it! I think it has trouble shining in a category that few people venture into. It's a different beer than Cantillon's other offerings in that it's more one-note. It's a damn good note, but it will not please somebody expecting a Gueuze or Fou Foune.

With all that said, send me all the GCB!


Btw, I'm super jealous of that '96...
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I <3 Grand Cru Bruocsella
 
SeaWatchman said:
9Mi4s.gif


If 50n and/or Crianza were regularly available along with the Classic Gueuze there isn't even a question as to which ones I'd take.

Edit: I literally changed the gif in this post three times to convey the right response.
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Shrug, I wouldn't (JCN either since it's the same deal but wine barrels). I'd much rather have a comparably old Classic than Crianza, for instance. 50N was weird, I've only had the new batch, first time I had it my thoughts were the same, second time it was actually pretty good, maybe better than Classic. But maybe not either, so I'm sticking with Classic.
 
SeaWatchman said:
I am disgusted that in a thread full of so-called lambic lovers that no one has even thought to mention Bruocsella Grand Cru. The most underrated lambic out there and to date the best lambic I've ever had:

374435_865701321035_1687574541_n.jpg
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On some srs, was anyone around in 1996 to drink fresh geuze from Cantillon? I've got the unfortunate privilege of not being born early enough to have been around to do this myself, but I'm genuinely curious if the lambic that went into beers from 95-98 was just that outstanding. I've only had a few loons from 95-96, but literally every single one of them was the best ****ing lambic experience.

TLDR; Can we expect 17 year old bottles of 2012 GCB to taste as good as the 96 GCB does today, or is the base lambic from 95-96 special?
 
Bill said:
On some srs, was anyone around in 1996 to drink fresh geuze from Cantillon? I've got the unfortunate privilege of not being born early enough to have been around to do this myself, but I'm genuinely curious if the lambic that went into beers from 95-98 was just that outstanding. I've only had a few loons from 95-96, but literally every single one of them was the best ****ing lambic experience.

TLDR; Can we expect 17 year old bottles of 2012 GCB to taste as good as the 96 GCB does today, or is the base lambic from 95-96 special?
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I'm certainly hoping the current stuff will be that good. I think everything I've had from them from the 90's has been fantastic.
 
I'd hazard a guess that the biggest issue with the newer vintages is going to be cellaring conditions. A lot more people in on the game now, thinking that their basement that sees sunlight and fluorescent light and sits at 75 degrees for half the year is a proper place to keep beer for 10+ years.

... at least when it comes to bottle shares and trading I should add...
 
Osyrus said:
I'd hazard a guess that the biggest issue with the newer vintages is going to be cellaring conditions. A lot more people in on the game now, thinking that their basement that sees sunlight and fluorescent light and sits at 75 degrees for half the year is a proper place to keep beer for 10+ years.

... at least when it comes to bottle shares and trading I should add...
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Anyone with enough restraint to hold onto a bottle for 10+ years probably understands that it should be properly cared for, or the time is going to be wasted.
 
Bill said:
Anyone with enough restraint to hold onto a bottle for 10+ years probably understands that it should be properly cared for, or the time is going to be wasted.
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You would hope so... the number of people I know who have said they want to push some gueuze out a decade that store stuff in their bedroom closet or comparable is alarmingly high. Cellaring has become a novelty thing for a lot of people.
 
Osyrus said:
You would hope so... the number of people I know who have said they want to push some gueuze out a decade that store stuff in their bedroom closet or comparable is alarmingly high. Cellaring has become a novelty thing for a lot of people.
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That's something I was really trying to push back against in the cellaring FAQ. I think entirely too many people try to do it without knowing what they're doing, and all they're going to accomplish is ruining a bunch of beer.
 
Osyrus said:
You would hope so... the number of people I know who have said they want to push some gueuze out a decade that store stuff in their bedroom closet or comparable is alarmingly high. Cellaring has become a novelty thing for a lot of people.
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How many people do you know currently that have a bedroom closet "cellar" with beer "cellared" in there for more than 5 years? I don't know anyone who has the intent to age geuze/beer for even 5+ years without it being in a temp-controlled or insulated cellar.
 
Bill said:
How many people do you know currently that have a bedroom closet "cellar" with beer "cellared" in there for more than 5 years? I don't know anyone who has the intent to age geuze/beer for even 5+ years without it being in a temp-controlled or insulated cellar.
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Probably a dozen, maybe more, ranging from bedroom closet to kitchen cupboard above the fridge or stove, hallway closet, etc. Again, it gets back to a novelty thing.
 
I'm not one to forget about beer, especially Lambic. This is why I have to trade a lot for vintage lambic... I don't have a problem with other people doing the hard work of waiting. But after a certain point in age, it's not worth the risk (for me).
 
Osyrus said:
I'd hazard a guess that the biggest issue with the newer vintages is going to be cellaring conditions. A lot more people in on the game now, thinking that their basement that sees sunlight and fluorescent light and sits at 75 degrees for half the year is a proper place to keep beer for 10+ years.

... at least when it comes to bottle shares and trading I should add...
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I think that's always the issue, really. Just because you find something from the 90's doesn't mean it was cellared properly. Fortunately most people who are doing this lambic thing have half an idea of what they're doing, and likely won't be trading to get bottles. I haven't really traded for many vintage bottles lately, but I have got a bunch of stuff fresh that I'm personally tending to in my cellar so I know where it's been. Provenance and storage will always be an issue no matter the age of the bottle I think.
 
Bill said:
Anyone with enough restraint to hold onto a bottle for 10+ years probably understands that it should be properly cared for, or the time is going to be wasted.
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earlier this year, or maybe it was late late 2012, someone told me there were 2000 cantillon vigeronne bottles at this store. so i went and got the last one. so a viggy sat on that shelf for around 12 years, maybe 11. it was on a shelf, warm place, lots of light, and it ****ing ruled. it was amazing and aged so well. and it was $13 for a 750.
 
xscottypx said:
earlier this year, or maybe it was late late 2012, someone told me there were 2000 cantillon vigeronne bottles at this store. so i went and got the last one. so a viggy sat on that shelf for around 12 years, maybe 11. it was on a shelf, warm place, lots of light, and it ****ing ruled. it was amazing and aged so well. and it was $13 for a 750.
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I hope you asked the manager if they had anything else hanging around out back...

As to the rest of the discussion here, I think temperature is really the key factor here. I think beer can handle being somewhat warm, but it only takes hours to develop cardboard flavors once you get high enough. I'm not super worried about my beer that gets up to 68 in the summer, but if I were keeping it in a closet upstairs, where temperatures can hit 80's or above on a hot day, I'd be pretty worried. But even then it's a matter of temperature AND time, if you do that for a few days it likely won't matter (although 100 for a few days will almost certainly screw things up).

Then again, the research that's been done on this is all done in AALs, maybe brett just eats that **** up and you'll never notice it. I have no real idea. (While I've had clearly oxidized lambics, they've all been old, so the yeasts may not have been active enough to soak up the impurities.)
 
the worst mine gets is upper 60's, never above 70. all are exempt from light and the temps never fluctuate sharply, its gradual.
 
xscottypx said:
earlier this year, or maybe it was late late 2012, someone told me there were 2000 cantillon vigeronne bottles at this store. so i went and got the last one. so a viggy sat on that shelf for around 12 years, maybe 11. it was on a shelf, warm place, lots of light, and it ****ing ruled. it was amazing and aged so well. and it was $13 for a 750.
Click to expand...

This is definitely the norm.
 
stupac2 said:
As to the rest of the discussion here, I think temperature is really the key factor here. I think beer can handle being somewhat warm, but it only takes hours to develop cardboard flavors once you get high enough. I'm not super worried about my beer that gets up to 68 in the summer, but if I were keeping it in a closet upstairs, where temperatures can hit 80's or above on a hot day, I'd be pretty worried. But even then it's a matter of temperature AND time, if you do that for a few days it likely won't matter (although 100 for a few days will almost certainly screw things up).
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Yes, you are correct. Both temperature and time. Temperature is major since reactions must reach a certain temperature threshold to occur. And increased temp = increased energy, thus catalyzing reactions that may not normally occur. There are many reactions that occur in beer other than simple oxidation so both factors will allow for the chemical changes.

If you consider other commercial beers though, many of them have been through multiple temperature swings from the time they're fermenting to the time it reaches your glass. And for the most part, they aren't horribly oxidized.
 
xscottypx said:
its probably more true than we want to admit :(

same store had stille nachts that were 2001-2003 that have been sublime. it was like time forgot this joint. got some of this http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/3054/16160/ which i sent some to callmemickey
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I've heard incandescent lighting doesn't actually have enough energy to penetrate the bottles in any significant manner, which leads me to believe that only direct/partial sunlight/uv would be able to produce a light stricken bottle. I'm sure someone much smarter than me can confirm this for sure though. It seems, based on all of the anecdotal evidence I've heard, that constant temperatures are the most crucial. It also seems like the orientation of the bottles are relatively insignificant.
 
Bill said:
I've heard incandescent lighting doesn't actually have enough energy to penetrate the bottles in any significant manner, which leads me to believe that only direct/partial sunlight/uv would be able to produce a light stricken bottle. I'm sure someone much smarter than me can confirm this for sure though. It seems, based on all of the anecdotal evidence I've heard, that constant temperatures are the most crucial. It also seems like the orientation of the bottles are relatively insignificant.
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I think the main thing is that they'll have basically no UV light, which is what causes damage. (I mean, you can see through a brown bottle in a grocery store, right?) Though I guess light in general speeds up some organic chemical reactions, my guess is that this is a really minor effect if it matters at all.
 
Bill said:
How many people do you know currently that have a bedroom closet "cellar" with beer "cellared" in there for more than 5 years? I don't know anyone who has the intent to age geuze/beer for even 5+ years without it being in a temp-controlled or insulated cellar.
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Just look at that photo of Dakine's "cellar" in Arizona that was photographed in that recent beer mag article on trading/hoarding/obsessing
 
stupac2 said:
Absolutely not me. All of those "here's Cantillon gueuze, BUT IN A DIFFERENT BARREL!!!!" beers are worse than Cantillon Gueuze, IMO.
Click to expand...

I've never been a huge fan of Helena, but the last 2 bottles I've had have been ****ing really good. If you let it warm up to room temp, the nose and flavors get so much better.

And $400 is a ****ing joke.
 
Osyrus said:
You would hope so... the number of people I know who have said they want to push some gueuze out a decade that store stuff in their bedroom closet or comparable is alarmingly high. Cellaring has become a novelty thing for a lot of people.
Click to expand...

that's weird to me. space is at a premium for me in a nyc apartment, and most of my bottles aren't temperature controlled beyond just the room's A/C (which means generally rarely above 70, never above 75), but anything i'm planning to keep for years out is in a mini fridge i converted to a li'l cellar or if that ends up full, in my actual refrigerator.
 
jmarce said:
how long does shipping (from Belgium in a Box in particular) usually take?
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jmarce said:
Does it usually take more than a few days for them to ship the box out? I ordered Monday and got confirmation of payment received, Tuesday morning I got a preparation in progress email and no update since then (yes, I'm very impatient.)
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Just to follow up on this for anyone interested, Kurt emailed me a tracking number on Saturday and I got the box today. All the bottles and glassware made it without a problem. Great packaging and customer service, I would definitely order from him again, it's much easier than trying to hunt down the occasional bottle of Cantillon in the US.
 
jmarce said:
Just to follow up on this for anyone interested, Kurt emailed me a tracking number on Saturday and I got the box today. All the bottles and glassware made it without a problem. Great packaging and customer service, I would definitely order from him again, it's much easier than trying to hunt down the occasional bottle of Cantillon in the US.
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Yah.... if you're willing to pay his bottle prices for anything other than regular kriek/rose/gueuze.
 
Question: I just got a bottle of Rose that was *really* full...so much so that even when standing vertically it looks like some is touching the cork. Should I have any reason to be concerned about that?
 
gregh said:
Question: I just got a bottle of Rose that was *really* full...so much so that even when standing vertically it looks like some is touching the cork. Should I have any reason to be concerned about that?
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No. I have a bottle of Kriek '12 that was originally like that when it arrived. After laying down for a month or so, I'd noticed that it was no longer full all the way to the cork, so I can only assume that a small amount had been absorbed or had shifted between the cork/glass/cap. There was no leaking.
 
Dunt said:
Anybody had a 2013 bottle of Cantillon Classic yet? I opened one yesterday with bauermj and we both thought it had a peculiar amount of hoppiness to it
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What was the bottle date? I had one last month and thought the same thing.
 

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