Lambic almost ready to bottle

[theQ]

Alright so one year ago I decided to attempt a raspberry lambic. I used 6lbs or frozen raspberry. I got no pellicule on top, it's all great. I tested it it turned out sour, it's more like a sour than a lambic.

Here the questions

1. Can a sweeten it a bit to get close to a framboise ? I think a hint of "sugar" would brighten up the raspberry flavor - what kind of sugar I can add so it won't ferment out
2. While bottling it, would I need to have special bottling equipment for it
Racking siphon and bottling bucket ?
3. For bottling is the process the same ? Adding sugar ? I assume I have to referment in the bottle would the yeast work in that environment ? (I expect the acidity is higher in sour beers)

Thanks, not I am sitting down an listen

 

[dantheman13]

1. You can back sweeten with sugar or blending with a non-sour beer, but if you allow the beer to warm to room temperature it is going to referment. You could use a non-fermentable sugar of some sort (I don't have experience doing that, but I know that some breweries do this). You could also carbonate in a keg, and keep the back sweetened beer cold so that it doesn't referment.

2. This is all dependent on how well you believe you can clean and sanitize your equipment. For example, if you can boil it, then that will kill all of the bugs. I use separate siphons, tubing, wine thieves, etc., but I wouldn't be afraid to use the same bottling bucket (long soak in hot water + PBW).

3. Your Sacch will be dead. Use a champagne yeast like Redstar yellow or Lalvin EC-1118. Use 10% of the yeast you would normally use to do a primary fermentation (Oldsock trick, works really well for me... the Brett can break down the yeast cells and create gushers, and 10% is more than enough yeast to carbonate). When using a priming calculator, assume that you have .4 volumes of dissolved CO2 instead of the default .8 (as per Oldsock again). Aged beers apparently have less dissolved CO2.

 

[sweetcell]

^What dantheman said. I might take exception to using the same bottling bucket. It's plastic and can be easily scratched so there are places for the bugs to hide. Personally, I use a second set of plastic for my sours - anything that is plastic. Others say they have been able to reuse plastics, so YMMV.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Lambics ARE sour beers. To make the sweet Alco-pops like New Glarus or Timmermans or Lindemans, you have to kill anything alive or they will just ferment that sugar and be sour. Or use a non fermentable sweetener like saccharin

 

[theQ]

Lambics ARE sour beers. To make the sweet Alco-pops like New Glarus or Timmermans or Lindemans, you have to kill anything alive or they will just ferment that sugar and be sour. Or use a non fermentable sweetener like saccharin

I try to make a Lindemans framboise clone - well, I didn't expect I'd succeed from the first try , however althou I mashed it at 156 i wonder if I should have mashed it even higher to get the nonfermentables out.

saccharin might not be a good option, it's not good for you. Any other healthy options ?

 

[sweetcell]

Xylitol is a popular non-fermentable sweetener. according to webmd there are no side effects, at least not in the quantities consumed in a beer or three.

I try to make a Lindemans framboise clone - well, I didn't expect I'd succeed from the first try , however althou I mashed it at 156 i wonder if I should have mashed it even higher to get the nonfermentables out.

when we say that mashing in the high 150's leads to unfermentables, we should be saying "unfermentables for sacch". brett and bugs can ferment those sugars. in fact, they can ferment starch, i.e. the building blocks of those unfermentables... so, it doesn't really matter what temp you mash at. the bugs will still chew it all down.

 

[theQ]

I hear you on brett and sugar - it converted 6lbs of raspberry into powder. I can't see any seeds

 

[theQ]

BTW since we are talking about brett - I read some blog what people are making Golden Ales/Tripel with only Brett. Won't that be sour ?

 

[wingedcoyote]

BTW since we are talking about brett - I read some blog what people are making Golden Ales/Tripel with only Brett. Won't that be sour ?

Nope! Brett is not a souring microbe, it's just a yeast like Sacch but with some different properties. It is responsible for funky/leathery/barnyard characteristics in many sours, but the actual sour comes from bugs. Those characteristics mostly come out when it is combined with sacch, however -- in a 100% brett fermentation you often get something pretty similar to 100% sacch but with some, often fruity, flavors/aromas.

On the other hand, brett can create some acetic acid (vinegar flavor), but usually not much and only when it has oxygen exposure. It won't go sour like a lactic fermentation would.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Brett can make "tart" flavors, but its not the same as "sour" flavors. Mostly it leads to funk. But, certain strains can have no funk and be fruit bombs when used right.

If you really wanted a lindemans clone you could probably just make a wheat, add raspberry flavoring and a touch of citric or lactic acid. Much easier, and it won't be anything close to a true sour, which is what you are after

 

[theQ]

All clear, I should try a 100% brett.

Lambic blends do have lacto in them - makes perfect sense.

Would you use brett b or l for a 100% brett ?

 

[MileHighBrewer]

100%....neither really, brett Trois. Now I have used b and l on their own just to try, split a 5 into two 3gal. I'd have to check my notes, one took off real fast for a brett and didn't take long, the other took a few weeks to get down to 1012. Both tasted ok, not stellar. I ended up combining them, adding a bit of bad Belgian golden (over pitch and huge temp spike, it was banana nail polish) and then added a 1/2 gallon of grown up Crooked Stave dregs. Now, it tastes great lol couldn't replicate it if my life depended on it though

 

[theQ]

Say if I want to add some funk to a brew could I add a brett in the secondary ? It suppose to stay in the secondary for 3 months. It's a 10% quad with cherries and oak chips. Should I add the brett in the last week or should I do it now one 1 month in ?

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Now. It'll need a few months at least to do its thing, especially with plenty of food left. I imagine you'll get a 2nd fermentation due to the brett and fruit. For that application I'd use wyeast b. Lambicus the distinct cherry pie character will likey enhance what you got cooking there.

 

[sweetcell]

Say if I want to add some funk to a brew could I add a brett in the secondary ? It suppose to stay in the secondary for 3 months. It's a 10% quad with cherries and oak chips. Should I add the brett in the last week or should I do it now one 1 month in ?

IMO you want to add brett now, and then give it some time to do its thing - like, 3 months or more. that a rough enviro you're pitching it in to so it won't be fast... but it will be steady, so it will eventually work through the residual sugars. you won't want that to happen in a bottle, or a rarely used keg (i.e. a keg that is aging).

 

[MudduckBrewing]

I would go with the Wyeast Brett L it will add more cherry character and also some tartness. At least in my experience this brett always displays some tartness, not sour just tart.