Lalbrew Novalager

[CascadesBrewer]

Here is a link to a paper someone linked on Reddit. I think this yeast is one from that study.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/aem.02434-20

 

[Andre3000]

Just heard back from Lallemand. They're aiming for end of November for homebrew packets of Novalager.

I was pretty happy with their communication.

 

[SanPancho]

I think the only question that matters is what does it taste like? “Unique flavor profile” doesn’t really sound encouraging for a lager yeast hybrid.

guess we gotta wait a while to find out….

 

[ebbelwoi]

Just got this in an email from Lallemand:

 

[ebbelwoi]

That should be Thursday, October 6. The times are correct.

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

Has anyone had a chance to try this yet? I'm sure there is a homebrewer somewhere that is working through a 500g brick.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Looks like Novalager has finally landed in the US in 11g packs. First I'm noticing it at least. Morebeer is the only place I see it so far but I honestly haven't looked that hard. Nothing at my LHBS as of last weekend but I'm sure it will trickle out sooner than later.

I guess it's time to start thinking about how I want to test this out. Maybe a basic SMASH at 60F to see what kind of ester profile it gives. Anybody else have plans for this?

 

[SanPancho]

Looks like Novalager has finally landed in the US in 11g packs. First I'm noticing it at least. Morebeer is the only place I see it so far but I honestly haven't looked that hard. Nothing at my LHBS as of last weekend but I'm sure it will trickle out sooner than later.

I guess it's time to start thinking about how I want to test this out. Maybe a basic SMASH at 60F to see what kind of ester profile it gives. Anybody else have plans for this?

yes.... my plan is to wait for you to post back with results!

i think you're on the right track, although i wouldnt necessarily focus on a smash, but just do something like a basic helles/lager, just some two row or pils, maybe touch of vienna, light touch of a noble/generic hop like saaz, hallertau, tett, etc. shoot for the middle of whatever temp range they're stating on the packet. just a basic, middle of the road light lager, you know? focus on seeing what that yeast has under the hood.

 

[eliastheodosis]

yes.... my plan is to wait for you to post back with results!

i think you're on the right track, although i wouldnt necessarily focus on a smash, but just do something like a basic helles/lager, just some two row or pils, maybe touch of vienna, light touch of a noble/generic hop like saaz, hallertau, tett, etc. shoot for the middle of whatever temp range they're stating on the packet. just a basic, middle of the road light lager, you know? focus on seeing what that yeast has under the hood.

Ha! Not the worst plan I'm kind of running at peak beer at the moment so someone else might beat me to it, though. I'll post back once I have something in a glass.

Thanks for the feedback! You had me at "middle of the road light lager" Not trying to emphasize the SMASH part. Just want to keep it simple to let the yeast talk like you mentioned. I have a helles 7 weeks into lagering that I'll be tapping soon or that's probably what I'd do. My thought was just straight pils malt and then a noble, so we're thinking along the same lines. I've got an open bag of saaz that tasted great in a Czech style pils but it's a little on the spicy side. That potential for apple ester is throwing me off a little. Not sure if "spicy red apple" is the vibe I'm going for here Guess that's the risk, though.

For temp, 60F is very, very easy for me to pull off and it's close to the middle of the range. I want to see what it does for me there. If it throws a bunch of esters at that temp then I'll push it a few degrees lower. If it's still weird in the high 50s then I don't see the benefit for me when I can use Weihenstephan or Augustiner at that temp with pretty decent results.

 

[SanPancho]

Ha! Not the worst plan I'm kind of running at peak beer at the moment so someone else might beat me to it, though. I'll post back once I have something in a glass.

Thanks for the feedback! You had me at "middle of the road light lager" Not trying to emphasize the SMASH part. Just want to keep it simple to let the yeast talk like you mentioned. I have a helles 7 weeks into lagering that I'll be tapping soon or that's probably what I'd do. My thought was just straight pils malt and then a noble, so we're thinking along the same lines. I've got an open bag of saaz that tasted great in a Czech style pils but it's a little on the spicy side. That potential for apple ester is throwing me off a little. Not sure if "spicy red apple" is the vibe I'm going for here Guess that's the risk, though.

For temp, 60F is very, very easy for me to pull off and it's close to the middle of the range. I want to see what it does for me there. If it throws a bunch of esters at that temp then I'll push it a few degrees lower. If it's still weird in the high 50s then I don't see the benefit for me when I can use Weihenstephan or Augustiner at that temp with pretty decent results.

keep your eye out for the "seasonal" releases alot of yeast labs will put out, see if you can get the Andechs strain. i dont think any lab has it on full time basis, but white labs calls it Lager X. that one is super clean and cleans up after itself fast. its hard to find since its mostly seasonal, or in white labs' "vault," but i just make a big ass starter and then freeze a bunch with a little glycerol. i'm at probably 80% success reviving them after freeze.

 

[eliastheodosis]

keep your eye out for the "seasonal" releases alot of yeast labs will put out, see if you can get the Andechs strain. i dont think any lab has it on full time basis, but white labs calls it Lager X. that one is super clean and cleans up after itself fast. its hard to find since its mostly seasonal, or in white labs' "vault," but i just make a big ass starter and then freeze a bunch with a little glycerol. i'm at probably 80% success reviving them after freeze.

Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely look into that. Augustiner is my favorite for helles so far but from a quick search it looks like the Andechs strain is definitely worth trying. My wife is a microbiologist so I had ready access to both agar plates and a minus 80 if I really like it. She's a patient woman...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

And MaltMiller have it in the UK, somewhat cheaper than Morebeer!

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/lalbrew-novalager-modern-hybrid-lager-yeast/

 

[sweetcell]

more reading material about Novalager, with charts n' graphs n' stuff: Lager than life- Lallemand’s newest shining star, “Novalager” - Murphy and Son

the flavor spider chart below is taken from the article. the apple ester thing has me concerned. imma let others take the first plunge

 

[rtstrider]

I'd be curious to see how this performed in a Kolsch. Looking at the flavor wheel that's the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[duelerx]

I'd be curious to see how this performed in a Kolsch. Looking at the flavor wheel that's the first thing that comes to mind.

Seconded this yeast is good candidate for a Kolsch.

 

[stealthfixr]

Any best practices out there yet on the best fermentation temps for this yeast? Also, what attenuation are you all seeing at what mash temps (fully understanding that my 154F is just my setup and may not be the same as anyone else)?

Thinking of using it in a Prickly Pear American Wheat for a local contest and curious what temps, mash & fermentation, would give the best outcome.

 

[sweetcell]

Also, what attenuation are you all seeing at what mash temps (fully understanding that my 154F is just my setup and may not be the same as anyone else)?

TAN: are you seeing much difference in attenuation with different mash temps?

i've subscribed to the theory that mash temps don't matter that much with modern, well- (some would say over-) modified malts. i've made the same recipe at 148 and at 156 using Briess malt from the same bag and got the same attenuation - FGs were within 2 points, IIRC, which i don't count as a difference. my reading could have been off by that much

mash time seems to be a more relevant lever to pull: kill mash after as little as 20 mins if you want some residual dextrines; go 60 mins or more for full conversion.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

i've subscribed to the theory that mash temps don't matter that much with modern, well- (some would say over-) modified malts. i've made the same recipe at 148 and at 156 using Briess malt from the same bag and got the same attenuation - FGs were within 2 points, IIRC, which i don't count as a difference. my reading could have been off by that much

hmmm...I do 60 minute mashes as my standard (BIAB) and I see noticeable differences in attenuation with different mash temps. I tend to think that mash temp driven attenuation does not have a massive impact on the overall character of the final beer, but I do use mash temps to help balance the ABV. The Brulosophy mash temp experiments where people could not pick out differences in the final beer did show a remarkable and consistent correlation between mash temp and attenuation/ABV.

@stealthfixr: With my only batch of NovaLager (mash at 149F, fermented 70F in a keg at 15 PSI), I measured 86.5% attenuation.

 

[wepeeler]

hmmm...I do 60 minute mashes as my standard (BIAB) and I see noticeable differences in attenuation with different mash temps. I tend to think that mash temp driven attenuation does not have a massive impact on the overall character of the final beer, but I do use mash temps to help balance the ABV. The Brulosophy mash temp experiments where people could not pick out differences in the final beer did show a remarkable and consistent correlation between mash temp and attenuation/ABV.

@stealthfixr: With my only batch of NovaLager (mash at 149F, fermented 70F in a keg at 15 PSI), I measured 86.5% attenuation.

How did you like Novalager? I got a pack in my grab bag winnings for my Kolsch, and was thinking of using it in the exact same Kolsch recipe. It's a super simple recipe, so I should be able to tell the difference from the yeast. Wondering what your experience was with it.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

How did you like Novalager? I got a pack in my grab bag winnings for my Kolsch, and was thinking of using it in the exact same Kolsch recipe. It's a super simple recipe, so I should be able to tell the difference from the yeast. Wondering what your experience was with it.

It was an okay beer. It was a hoppy Pilsner (West Coast Pilsner) with Citra and Mosaic in the mix. The grain bill also had some Honey Malt and Wheat Malt in the mix. The beer did not have the same lager-y character as some similar beers I have made with W-34/70, but there were quite a few differences between those batches and the NovaLager one.

Based on my one batch and reading feedback from others, I am not sure where this yeast fits. Is it a "clean ale" strain good for styles like a Cold IPA or West Coast IPA? Is it a fruity lager strain good for flavorful lagers or mixed styles like Kolsch? Is it a clean lager strain if fermented cool (62F) or cold (52F)? It it competing with Lutra for those that don't have temp control?

I would be willing to give NovaLager another shot using a different recipe or fermentation schedule...but W-34/70 at 62F has worked very well for me and it seems like there are better options for cold lager fermentations.

 

[wepeeler]

It was an okay beer. It was a hoppy Pilsner (West Coast Pilsner) with Citra and Mosaic in the mix. The grain bill also had some Honey Malt and Wheat Malt in the mix. The beer did not have the same lager-y character as some similar beers I have made with W-34/70, but there were quite a few differences between those batches and the NovaLager one.

Based on my one batch and reading feedback from others, I am not sure where this yeast fits. Is it a "clean ale" strain good for styles like a Cold IPA or West Coast IPA? Is it a fruity lager strain good for flavorful lagers or mixed styles like Kolsch? Is it a clean lager strain if fermented cool (62F) or cold (52F)? It it competing with Lutra for those that don't have temp control?

I would be willing to give NovaLager another shot using a different recipe or fermentation schedule...but W-34/70 at 62F has worked very well for me and it seems like there are better options for cold lager fermentations.

Ok. Thanks for the feedback. I might try it in my Kolsch recipe. Red apple is "appropriate" for the style, so it might work out well!

 

[Bassman2003]

TAN: are you seeing much difference in attenuation with different mash temps?

i've subscribed to the theory that mash temps don't matter that much with modern, well- (some would say over-) modified malts. i've made the same recipe at 148 and at 156 using Briess malt from the same bag and got the same attenuation - FGs were within 2 points, IIRC, which i don't count as a difference. my reading could have been off by that much

mash time seems to be a more relevant lever to pull: kill mash after as little as 20 mins if you want some residual dextrines; go 60 mins or more for full conversion.

What was the final gravity? Maybe the lower mash temp beers are not finishing as low as they should to be different? I have really tried to work on attenuation in recent years and it is one of the toughest parts of brewing - to get really good attenuation. 1.008 or below.

 

[Andre3000]

What was the final gravity? Maybe the lower mash temp beers are not finishing as low as they should to be different? I have really tried to work on attenuation in recent years and it is one of the toughest parts of brewing - to get really good attenuation. 1.008 or below.

What's been your secret? Mine:
-Eliminated BIAB recirc pump.
-Mash at 150F for 90 min at least.

I will usually hit 80%+ attenuation with this method.

 

[wepeeler]

What was the final gravity? Maybe the lower mash temp beers are not finishing as low as they should to be different? I have really tried to work on attenuation in recent years and it is one of the toughest parts of brewing - to get really good attenuation. 1.008 or below.

I single infusion mash at 146 for my Kolsch, and I routinely get 1.008 or so. I'm going to step mash my next one to see if I can get it even drier. 131F 10-15 min, 145 30 min, 158 40 min. Should create a very fermentable wort.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have been going at it from a yeast point of view. A lot of fresh, healthy yeast. It is not so much about getting as low as possible, but having levers to pull if you want to go low. Yes, longer mashes will do it. Some time in the 144F range helps as well. It is a combination of a lot of things, pH 5.5-5.6 in the mash, 5.1-5.2 end of boil, clear wort throughout the entire process etc... But at the end of the day, yeast will be doing the work on the wort you create.

wepeeler, I would change the 131F rest to 135F. Less in the protein range.

 

[wepeeler]

I have been going at it from a yeast point of view. A lot of fresh, healthy yeast. It is not so much about getting as low as possible, but having levers to pull if you want to go low. Yes, longer mashes will do it. Some time in the 144F range helps as well. It is a combination of a lot of things, pH 5.5-5.6 in the mash, 5.1-5.2 end of boil, clear wort throughout the entire process etc... But at the end of the day, yeast will be doing the work on the wort you create.

wepeeler, I would change the 131F rest to 135F. Less in the protein range.

Trying to get the lower end of the temp for the beta amylase to kick in. Reading Gordon Strong's book on Brewing Better Beer at the moment, and he seems to encourage 131-145-158.

 

[Bassman2003]

They are pretty close but I think anything protein rest has a potential of doing more harm than good in a normal grist.

 

[wepeeler]

They are pretty close but I think anything protein rest has a potential of doing more harm than good in a normal grist.

Are you against a protein rest? Everything I've researched on them is they eliminate chill haze and help head retention.

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes. Well modified malts do not need one. Maybe for a wheat beer but otherwise it can hurt head retention in the low range. So that is why I mentioned doughing in at 135F and going up from there.

 

[dmtaylor]

Yes. Well modified malts do not need one. Maybe for a wheat beer but otherwise it can hurt head retention in the low range. So that is why I mentioned doughing in at 135F and going up from there.

Indeed, a protein rest at 122 F can be detrimental. This is why most people these days aim for 131 F. Looks like you're building in a little insurance to avoid 122 F. This is wise. Or, perhaps the wisest thing is to just not do any protein rest at all. 21st century malts don't really need it.