Lagering/Pilsner Rookie Questions

[mcostello]

Hi guys. Two questions.

First - I brewed my first pilsner, 14 days @ 50º finished off where i was expecting, racked to secondary, and its been in there @ 34º for a month. I've noticed there's a huge yeast cake in the bottom, almost as a big as a regular primary cake and much bigger than most of my secondaries. Is this normal for a pils? Did I overpitch? Is this harmful? Should I rack to a third vessel for the rest of conditioning?

Second - Is it a bad idea to lager in the primary? After doing a D-rest just cranking it down and leaving in the first vessel.

Thanks in advance!

Mike

 

[paraordnance]

Hi guys. Two questions.

First - I brewed my first pilsner, 14 days @ 50º finished off where i was expecting, racked to secondary, and its been in there @ 34º for a month. I've noticed there's a huge yeast cake in the bottom, almost as a big as a regular primary cake and much bigger than most of my secondaries. Is this normal for a pils? Did I overpitch? Is this harmful? Should I rack to a third vessel for the rest of conditioning?

Second - Is it a bad idea to lager in the primary? After doing a D-rest just cranking it down and leaving in the first vessel.

Thanks in advance!

Mike

I have successfully lagered in primary, twice. Vienna Lager and Pilsner, about 6 weeks on cake total. No off flavors that I could detect. So I would say - Yes, with certain conditions you can leave your lager on yeast for that long. You mentioned that you had thick layer of yeast in secondary anyway so it doesn't hurt, particulary at 34F

 

[asterix404]

To quote so many people on this fourm, home brewers don't have to worry about the off flavors from yeast due to the pressure exerted by the beer, It is just not heavy enough. I have left beers on yeast cake for months, They turned out fine. What are you most likely seeing is all of the yeast becoming dormant due to the cold conditioning. This is not a bad thing at all. When you bottle or keg, syphon off of the secondary into a bucket, then the bucket into your bottles.

Good luck on the Pils, It is a very hard style but it sounds like you got it spot on as far as the yeast goes.

 

[osagedr]

Lagering in the primary is probably fine; I haven't done it but others have successfully.

Really no need to rack your beer again at this point from your secondary. Sounds to me like your pilsener is going very well. Good job!

 

[mcostello]

Thanks so much for the quick replies, you guys are awesome. I'll keep you posted on the final products!

 

[pjj2ba]

To quote so many people on this forum, home brewers don't have to worry about the off flavors from yeast due to the pressure exerted by the beer, It is just not heavy enough. ............ Good luck on the Pils, It is a very hard style but it sounds like you got it spot on as far as the yeast goes.

I highlighted a very important point. The key is off flavors. There may not be off flavors, but the beers will taste different. This is even more true for a light flavored beer, as opposed to say a stout. The folks at BYO did a series of experiments and all of the panel could tell the difference between beers left on the cake and beers racked to a secondary. The kicker is half preferred one and the half preferred the other. The best thing of course is to try it both ways and see which way YOU like. Also, you may find that you like some styles one way, and different styles the other way.

I suspect your large yeast cake in secondary is likely because the yeast weren't quite finished before your transfer

 

[Yooper]

I highlighted a very important point. The key is off flavors. There may not be off flavors, but the beers will taste different. This is even more true for a light flavored beer, as opposed to say a stout. The folks at BYO did a series of experiments and all of the panel could tell the difference between beers left on the cake and beers racked to a secondary. The kicker is half preferred one and the half preferred the other. The best thing of course is to try it both ways and see which way YOU like. Also, you may find that you like some styles one way, and different styles the other way.

I suspect your large yeast cake in secondary is likely because the yeast weren't quite finished before your transfer

I absolutely agree. For me, I would never leave a lager on the yeast cake after a diacetyl rest. It might not taste of autolysis, but the flavor will be different. That's fine for an ale (and I'd probably like it better, or at least not mind it) but to me a lager's defining characteristic is the crisp clean taste.

For lagers, I primary about 10-14 days, until the beer is ready for a diacetyl rest. For ales, I will leave the beer in the fermenter up to 21 days, but I still prefer two weeks, or about a week after fermentation finishes. Leaving it longer on the yeast cake may not do harm, but I don't see the benefit of a super-long primary for either ales or lagers.

 

[asterix404]

Oh good call all, I just assumed the worry was autolysis (thanks Yooper! I forgot the name). It's either that the yeast wasn't finished or that there was quite a bit of yeast left in suspension and you cold braked it and the yeast settled out. If you feel like it, it won't hurt to transfer it into another carboy. I agree with Yooper if the taste is different, with a Pils there is NO place for the flavors to hide so removing it from a yeast cake I think would be the safer option.