Lager-like ale

[Greg B]

Hi

I'm just starting off on the road to brewing my first beer. I'm not set up for lagering yet and I'm warned away from trying it as my first attempt. I'm told I must get used to brewing ales first and then I can work towards lagering with a fermenting fridge set up. Trouble is....I don't particularly like ale. I like lagers, I like pilsners.

So, can anyone recommend a kit for a lager-type ale or pseudo lager than I can brew without any kind of temperature control?

Cheers!

Greg

 

[ba-brewer]

Look for a cream ale or kolsch recipe, that is pretty close to a lager.

edit: Use a clean yeast like US-05 or WLP029, but would suggest a water bath swamp cooler setup to keep the temp in a reasonable range for the first couple days.

 

[cmac62]

I would recommend a Kolsch or a blonde ale. Both are fairly light and refreshing. Lagers can be unforgiving, as any off flavors or flaws in the beer have no where to hide. This is most likely the reason for the encouragement to brew some ales before jumping into more difficult brews. Of course there is a thread on here about brewing warm fermented lagers, you can check that out. I would post it for you, but I don't know how to do that fancy stuff. I'm doing good to post reply or start a thread. LOL Anyway, good luck and whatever you do, enjoy it.

 

[dwhite60]

Search the recipe forum for Cream of Three Crops. Fairly light and you can do a lot with it.

There's also a "Centennial Blonde" recipe floating around the interwebs. This might be closer to what you want.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[rburrelli]

Hi

I'm just starting off on the road to brewing my first beer. I'm not set up for lagering yet and I'm warned away from trying it as my first attempt. I'm told I must get used to brewing ales first and then I can work towards lagering with a fermenting fridge set up. Trouble is....I don't particularly like ale. I like lagers, I like pilsners.

So, can anyone recommend a kit for a lager-type ale or pseudo lager than I can brew without any kind of temperature control?

Cheers!

Greg

You can do a Pilsner as long as you can somehow reach a temperature in the 45-50 degree range and keep it there. You just won’t be able to do the colder “lagering” at near freezing.
I made my first Pilsner with a fermentation bag and ice bottles. It came out fine.

 

[friarsmith]

Search HBT for "Warm fermented Lager" threads. Fermentis 34/70 does a good job producing low-ester lager-ish beers when pitched into <70* wort. If you have a garage or shed or cool basement that hovers around 50-65* you're golden. Remember fermentation temp in your bucket or carboy during the first week will usually be 2-5* warmer than ambient temp. Fermentis recommends two packs of 34/70 for 5-6 gallons of wort if the OG is less than about 1.060, FWIW.

Personally, I'm old school w/ lagers and like to keep fermentation in the 50's, but you can make respectable lagers at warmer temps with the right yeast.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

You could use a kviek yeast strain also they can be fermented at warmer temperatures than usual ale yeast.

 

[madscientist451]

Check out the Basic Brewing Podcast, they've done several warm fermented lagers.
Before I got a chest freezer, I used to make lagers in a cardboard 24" x 24" box w/added 1" foam insulation. My basement is somewhat chilly and that helps but I could get 10-15F below ambient temp using that setup.
Freeze 1 and 2 liter water bottles and change them out every 12-24 hrs as needed. Its crude and a little bit of a hassle, but it actually works. I bottle conditioned the beers then lagered them for a while in the bottom drawers of the fridge.
Look on you tube for other fermentation chamber hacks using insulation board and ice and maybe a small fan that would be in a computer.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

A Kolsch is a great lighter beer. US-05 works great for it, but if you can get your hands on it, K-97 will be your best friend for Kolsch. As far as room temp fermented lagers go, they actually work out great. I would definitely try out a Kolsch and a couple blondes first though.

 

[gunhaus]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/unread
That's the link everyone keeps mentioning.

Ales can be perfectly crisp and clear in their own right. With a little care and some cold storage (Lagering!) You could also consider brewing with a California Common Lager strain - they make more than just Anchor clones!

 

[OnePlate]

Another vote for kolsch. I prefer Wyeast 2565, some prefer using White Labs 029. Either way, if you can keep your beer at 65°F you'll have some super tasty pseudo-lager.

 

[camonick]

Which method will you be using to do this brew? All grain or extract? If all grain, I can provide you with a great blonde ale recipe that could pass for a Pilsner. @DrGMG has had it and could vouch for the flavor.

 

[madscientist451]

I find that Kolsch is greatly improved by lagering for 3-4 months and using the Schill Colgne malt compared to using regular pilsner or pale malt. A brewery near me makes a "kolsch" but it tastes like they use crystal malt in it. I think they are using their regular ale yeast and I'm sure there is no lagering; I've never been to Germany and tasted real Kolsch, but my lagered version is way better than the "ale yeast" version I've had recently.

 

[madscientist451]

If all grain, I can provide you with a great blonde ale recipe that could pass for a Pilsner. @DrGMG has had it and could vouch for the flavor.

Please put it in, sounds great!

 

[camonick]

Please put it in, sounds great!

Ok, since you asked...
Make sure to ferment in the low-mid 60s. I BIAB so the grain bill may need to be adjusted according to your rig. I invented this recipe to use up some miscellaneous ingredients I had on hand and was pleasantly pleased with how it turned out.

Blonde Moment
Blonde Ale
Type: All Grain Date: 23 Nov 2019
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer: Nick
Boil Size: 7.15 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Windblown Brewery BIAB
End of Boil Volume 5.85 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 74.6 %
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 40.0
Ingredients:
Amt Name Type # %/IBU Volume
8 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 94.4 % 0.66 gal
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.6 % 0.04 gal
2.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [3.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 17.6 IBUs -
1.00 oz Hersbrucker [2.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 4 2.3 IBUs -
1.0 pkg Nottingham (Danstar #-) [23.66 ml] Yeast 5 - -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.043 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.008 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.3 %
Bitterness: 19.8 IBUs Calories: 157.4 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 3.8 SRM

Mash Profile:
Mash Name: BIAB, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs
Sparge Water: 2.60 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 155 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH:

Mash Steps:
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Saccharification Add 5.00 gal of water at 159.6 F 152.1 F 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min
Sparge Step: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Mash Notes: Brew in a bag method where the full boil volume is mashed within the boil vessel and then the grains are withdrawn at the end of the mash. No active sparging is required. This is a medium body beer profile.

Carbonation and Storage:
Carbonation Type: Keg Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Pressure/Weight: 14.89 PSI Carbonation Used: Keg with 14.89 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 38.0 F Age for: 30.00 days
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Storage Temperature: F

I used the "yellow balanced" profile in Bru'n Water with an estimated mash pH of 5.4

Edit: Here’s a pic of it.


Edit 2: I mashed with 5 gallons and sparged with 2.6 gallons to get my pre-boil volume of 7.15 gallons.

 

[Immocles]

Hi

I'm just starting off on the road to brewing my first beer. I'm not set up for lagering yet and I'm warned away from trying it as my first attempt. I'm told I must get used to brewing ales first and then I can work towards lagering with a fermenting fridge set up. Trouble is....I don't particularly like ale. I like lagers, I like pilsners.

So, can anyone recommend a kit for a lager-type ale or pseudo lager than I can brew without any kind of temperature control?

Cheers!

Greg

I agree with the kolsch and cream ale suggestions. The above blonde ale as well. If you’re looking for a kit, (I assuming extract?) try maybe a brewers best kolsch or cream ale. I believe their ales come with a packet of Nottingham yeast. I’ve had good luck getting a clean, clear, lager like finish with that at both ends of its temperature range. Better on the cold end, though.

If you’re feeling frisky, white labs 029 (kolsch) liquid yeast at 67F for a couple weeks has been very clear and clean for me as well.

 

[Immocles]

@camonick

That’s totally going to be brewed the next time I start a fresh pack of Nottingham. I’ll have to add it to beersmith when I get home from work in the morning. Thanks for posting!

 

[DrGMG]

That pils was excellent.

 

[schematix]

The only thing that tastes like a lager, is a real cold fermented lager.

Best you can hope for is a clean ale. Not necessarily a bad thing but it is what it is.

 

[camonick]

That pils was excellent.

The above recipe is for the blonde ale I sent in our FotHB trade.

 

[Moose_MI]

Ive done kolsch and cream ales..they are very good light beers that I’m happy to drink on hot days or serve to the BMC lovers....but Ive never mistaken them for a lager.

I found a recipe that recommended Amylase enzyme be added to secondary to dry out the beer. It was a miller light-ish recipe. I’m going to give it a try and see what happens.

 

[DrGMG]

The above recipe is for the blonde ale I sent in our FotHB trade.

Excellent blonde too, and I don't drink those that much. I really liked it.

 

[dwhite60]

Check out the Basic Brewing Podcast, they've done several warm fermented lagers.
Before I got a chest freezer, I used to make lagers in a cardboard 24" x 24" box w/added 1" foam insulation. My basement is somewhat chilly and that helps but I could get 10-15F below ambient temp using that setup.
Freeze 1 and 2 liter water bottles and change them out every 12-24 hrs as needed. Its crude and a little bit of a hassle, but it actually works. I bottle conditioned the beers then lagered them for a while in the bottom drawers of the fridge.
Look on you tube for other fermentation chamber hacks using insulation board and ice and maybe a small fan that would be in a computer.

I do the exact same thing with a box but it's lined with Reflectix. It does work well. It's a bit of a hassle but sometimes you have no other choice.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[jtrux]

If you are really interested in lagers, your first upgrade should be a cheap chest freezer. I found mine on sale for $130. But you could also find a used one cheap, then add a temp controller such as ink bird. Most will say it was the single upgrade that made the most drastic difference

 

[lump42]

If you are really interested in lagers, your first upgrade should be a cheap chest freezer. I found mine on sale for $130. But you could also find a used one cheap, then add a temp controller such as ink bird. Most will say it was the single upgrade that made the most drastic difference

If you live near a college, wait till May. Craigslist will get flooded with used appliances from students leaving and landlords replacing old appliances.

 

[lump42]

Check out the Basic Brewing Podcast, they've done several warm fermented lagers.
Before I got a chest freezer, I used to make lagers in a cardboard 24" x 24" box w/added 1" foam insulation. My basement is somewhat chilly and that helps but I could get 10-15F below ambient temp using that setup.
Freeze 1 and 2 liter water bottles and change them out every 12-24 hrs as needed. Its crude and a little bit of a hassle, but it actually works. I bottle conditioned the beers then lagered them for a while in the bottom drawers of the fridge.
Look on you tube for other fermentation chamber hacks using insulation board and ice and maybe a small fan that would be in a computer.

I use a ice cube style cooler, fill it with water and swap out the frozen bottles. Between the cooler and the extra 10 gal surrounding the fermenter, it has plenty of insulation and thermal mass. I can maintain 50F easily in the summer with swapping the bottles twice a day, cold crash to 40 with triple swaps. Ales don't require any but a swap every other day depending on the season.

 

[lowtones84]

Lot of good advice in here. You can also use a kolsch yeast and kind of fake many styles of lager pretty well. I've done this with pilsner and vienna lager. Just "lager" it in bottles or keg for 4-6 weeks once it's packaged and conditioned. I've had good results.

 

[WinterWarlock]

I highly recommend the Wyeast California lager strain. I've had great results fermenting at ale temps with it. I think you'll be more pleased with an actual lager strain rather than going the Kolsch route. White labs Mexican lager is a solid choice, too. No harm in giving it a shot. The end result may surprise you.