Kilning The Malt
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You're kilning malt? What kind of malt are you trying to make?
Um... yeah it's really not that simple of a question.
How do you know what temperature it should be if you don't know what kind of malt you're making? If you're doing a base malt it's going to be a lot cooler than if you're doing a dark crystal or other roasted/black malt.
thisoneguy
Well-Known Member
I believe his point was that the peak temperature varies by what kind of malt you're trying to make. So.... it was a simple question, but there is NOT a simple answer.
Also, responding like that when someone asks for more info (so they can actually answer your question) will probably make people not want to answer you in the future. Something to marinate on...
Also, responding like that when someone asks for more info (so they can actually answer your question) will probably make people not want to answer you in the future. Something to marinate on...
Getzinator
Well-Known Member
Well actually, that is not a simple question. The malt that you're trying to make depends on how hot you can take it. The darkest malt is roasted around 425-450 degree F IIRC. Other malts are at much lower temperateres, and can roast for any degree of time.
Please be more specific, or expect people to ask you for the specifics.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Yes, it was a bit too simple to be clear
I've only done it once or twice, but for standard pale malt you want to dry to around 10% moisture at 100ºF-120ºF (38-49ºC) and then raise the temperatures to 150ºF (66ºC) or so until you get your moisture content down to 2%.
This. I was going to say something but couldn't think of anything that wouldn't make me come off sounding rude.
komomos
Well-Known Member
Think what ever you want to think. Don't answer me in the future if you think that I'm reckless.
I'm not a master brewer (maybe not even avarage) however the question was simple. I just asked the endurance of maltose against heat.
I've got 50 kind and nice posts (most of them questions) in this forum and first time I've got tensed up.
edit: btw thank you @Getzinator
I'm not a master brewer (maybe not even avarage) however the question was simple. I just asked the endurance of maltose against heat.
I've got 50 kind and nice posts (most of them questions) in this forum and first time I've got tensed up.
edit: btw thank you @Getzinator
It's NOT a simple question, though! It's very complex as malting/kilning are not simple processes. Getting snarky with those trying to help you isn't really a productive way to ask for help. I don't like to try to figure out super long posts and what people are asking, but usually I need enough information to actually be able to give any advice.
I'm no brewmaster, but I'm pretty decent. And I have no ability at all to kiln/malt barley. It's a specialty that some homebrewers dabble in, but really takes some knowledge.
I'm unsure if you want to kiln malted barley, or kiln unmalted barley. I don't know if you want to do do your own malting, or exactly what you have available to you to work with. If you could say "I have some basic two-row malted barley that I want to kiln", that's totally different than "How do you make crystal malt out of unmalted barley?" We don't mean to not answer your "simple question" but we definitely need some direction here!
Getzinator
Well-Known Member
There's obviously a language or cultural disconnect here that's causing the tension in this post. What you said was most likely construed as offensive, and I'm sure you did not intend for that.
If you have any further questions about the original post, please be sure to post specifics.
If you have any further questions about the original post, please be sure to post specifics.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
Could be some pent-up anger from living in two continents at the same time...
+1 to what you said though, I used to make video games and worked with someone from turkey who did the textures for me, VERY difficult to get on the same page
Getzinator
Well-Known Member
Could be some pent-up anger from living in two continents at the same time...
I take it you speak from experience, what with being an east and left coast person all at once. :fro:
Bigcorona
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From other posts it looks like the OP has access to 2 row malt, so I do not think he is trying to malt barley. I would guess his question is about home toasting or roasting malted barley to come up with different tastes. A google search should help, but I found this:
Home Roasting Pale Malt to Pale Amber, Amber, and Brown Malt
provided by Geoff Cooper ([email protected]) the material is reproduced from the appendices of the "Durden Park Old British Beers Book".
Some ingredients needed to make OLD BEERS might not readily be available, in particular pale amber, amber and brown malts. All three can be made by roasting pale malt in a normal domestic oven as described below. Carapils with a colour number of 25 can be used as a substitute for pale amber. However, carapils has little diastatic activity and, as with any low activity grain, eg. roast barley, brown malt, amber malt, it should not exceed 45% of the total grist, the balance being pale malt. Carapils, however, might only be available by bulk purchase direct from maltsters.
Roasting Method
Line a large baking tin with aluminium foil, and pour in pale malt to a depth of 12 mm (1/2 inch). Place in the oven (preferably fan-stirred) at 100 C (230 F) for 45 minutes to dry out the malt, then raise the temperature to 150 C (300 F). After a further 20 minutes remove 6 or 7 corns from the tray, slice across the centre with a sharp knife and compare the colour of the starchy centre with that of a few pale malt corns. The pale malt is almost pure white; for pale amber the colour should be the palest buff, just noticeably different from the pale malt. Continue heating until this colour is obtained, usually about 30 minutes.
For amber malt, continue heating until the cut section is distinctly light buff, usually 45 to 50 minutes. If brown malt is needed, raise the temperature at this point to 175 C (350 F) and wait until the cut cross-section is a full buff, i.e. about the colour of the paler types of brown wrapping paper. When the correct colour has been reached, remove the tray from the oven, allow to cool and store the roast grain in an air-tight screw-top jar (large kilner jars are ideal). If used soon after production, the flavour imparted by home- roasted grain is superior to bought grain.
The roasting times given above are intended only as a guide to producing the wanted roast grain Practical tests on the oven available will enable home-brewers to adjust the time and temperature to produce the colour needed.
Crystal malt, which is usually available, has about the same colour potential as brown malt but a more caramel-like flavour.
The following has not made it into the the appendix yet but .... For those who are interested in retaining diastatic activity, subsequent (informed) experiments have shown that a longer time drying the grain at a lower temperature helps protect the enzymes. The following will produce a diastatic Pale Amber.
Set the oven at 70-75 C (160-170 F) and put in the tray of grain (the grain bed can be a little deeper - up to 1.5 inches, say) and leave for 2 hours to dry out the grain. Raise the temperature to 88-94 C (190-200 F) for 30 mins then to 110-115 C (230-240 F) for a further 30 mins. Check the colour as above. If insufficient colour, then check at 15 min intervals. If after 1 hour at this temperature, colour has not been achieved, raise to 120-125 C (250-260 F) and continue to check at 15 min intervals. The resultant Pale Amber should be able to mash itself.
For Amber malt, after the grain has spent 1 hour at 110-115 C (230-240 F) raise the temperature to 127-132 C (260-270 F) and check colour every 15 mins.
*** And note: these diastatic darker grains will be more acidic than normal pale malt and if large proportions are used in a mash you might have to make an allowance in you water treatment.
I hope that helps. Good mashing.
Geoff
Home Roasting Pale Malt to Pale Amber, Amber, and Brown Malt
provided by Geoff Cooper ([email protected]) the material is reproduced from the appendices of the "Durden Park Old British Beers Book".
Some ingredients needed to make OLD BEERS might not readily be available, in particular pale amber, amber and brown malts. All three can be made by roasting pale malt in a normal domestic oven as described below. Carapils with a colour number of 25 can be used as a substitute for pale amber. However, carapils has little diastatic activity and, as with any low activity grain, eg. roast barley, brown malt, amber malt, it should not exceed 45% of the total grist, the balance being pale malt. Carapils, however, might only be available by bulk purchase direct from maltsters.
Roasting Method
Line a large baking tin with aluminium foil, and pour in pale malt to a depth of 12 mm (1/2 inch). Place in the oven (preferably fan-stirred) at 100 C (230 F) for 45 minutes to dry out the malt, then raise the temperature to 150 C (300 F). After a further 20 minutes remove 6 or 7 corns from the tray, slice across the centre with a sharp knife and compare the colour of the starchy centre with that of a few pale malt corns. The pale malt is almost pure white; for pale amber the colour should be the palest buff, just noticeably different from the pale malt. Continue heating until this colour is obtained, usually about 30 minutes.
For amber malt, continue heating until the cut section is distinctly light buff, usually 45 to 50 minutes. If brown malt is needed, raise the temperature at this point to 175 C (350 F) and wait until the cut cross-section is a full buff, i.e. about the colour of the paler types of brown wrapping paper. When the correct colour has been reached, remove the tray from the oven, allow to cool and store the roast grain in an air-tight screw-top jar (large kilner jars are ideal). If used soon after production, the flavour imparted by home- roasted grain is superior to bought grain.
The roasting times given above are intended only as a guide to producing the wanted roast grain Practical tests on the oven available will enable home-brewers to adjust the time and temperature to produce the colour needed.
Crystal malt, which is usually available, has about the same colour potential as brown malt but a more caramel-like flavour.
The following has not made it into the the appendix yet but .... For those who are interested in retaining diastatic activity, subsequent (informed) experiments have shown that a longer time drying the grain at a lower temperature helps protect the enzymes. The following will produce a diastatic Pale Amber.
Set the oven at 70-75 C (160-170 F) and put in the tray of grain (the grain bed can be a little deeper - up to 1.5 inches, say) and leave for 2 hours to dry out the grain. Raise the temperature to 88-94 C (190-200 F) for 30 mins then to 110-115 C (230-240 F) for a further 30 mins. Check the colour as above. If insufficient colour, then check at 15 min intervals. If after 1 hour at this temperature, colour has not been achieved, raise to 120-125 C (250-260 F) and continue to check at 15 min intervals. The resultant Pale Amber should be able to mash itself.
For Amber malt, after the grain has spent 1 hour at 110-115 C (230-240 F) raise the temperature to 127-132 C (260-270 F) and check colour every 15 mins.
*** And note: these diastatic darker grains will be more acidic than normal pale malt and if large proportions are used in a mash you might have to make an allowance in you water treatment.
I hope that helps. Good mashing.
Geoff
anengineer
Well-Known Member
From the Briess Malt website:
David Kuske is maltster at the Chilton Malting Division of
Briess Industries, Inc. He has a Bachelor of Science Degree in
biological sciences with a minor in chemistry, and extensive
experience in malting, quality control and research and development.
David began his career at Ladish Malting in Jefferson, Wisconsin, in
1988 and joined Briess in 1995 at our Waterloo Malting Division. David now
manages the production of more than 40 varieties of base and specialty
malts at the Chilton Malting Division, and is active in the American Malting
Barley Associations as a participant and presenter. He is also an active
member of the MBAA, and past president of ASBC Local 4 Milwaukee
Chicago.
First, it is important to understand the chemistry behind producing caramel
malts and how different equipment design can affect the reactions. Producing
caramel malt is essentially a two-step process. The first step involves
conversion of the endosperm, which is temperature and especially moisture
dependent enzymatic degradation of the starches and proteins into sugars,
dextrins, amino acids and short chain polypeptides. These are the precursors
to caramelization and maillard reactions.
Roasters are specifically designed to control the airflow during this process to
minimize moisture loss. In addition, the small batch size and rotating action in
a roaster allows for very rapid and uniform heating of the grain to the optimum
temperature for enzymatic activity. All of this equates to a much more
efficient conversion and thus higher levels of precursor production.
Kilns are essentially designed to dry large batch size quantities of malt over a
period of 24-48 hours. Because of the large batch size, it is difficult to
achieve uniform grain temperature across the bed. The burners used in a kiln
are designed to heat great expanses of air which makes it economically
unfeasible to retrofit them to achieve temperatures common in roasting.
Modifications can be made to drying kilns in an effort to retain moisture for
the conversion step, but moisture loss is much more prevalent.
Once the precursors are produced, the moisture is allowed to escape from
the drum while the temperature of the grain is increased rapidly. Higher
temperature applied at higher water activity allows for more efficient
production of more complex maillard end products in higher concentrations.
The maillard end products are all responsible for color development, but are
unique in their flavor contributions. The Furans tend to provide sweet,
sugary, caramel, fruity and malty flavors.
The Pyrans tend to give more breadlike and toasty flavors. The Pyrroles
provide more nutty, raisin and licorice flavors, while the Pyrazines start
providing chocolate, coffee, cocoa and even roasted nutty flavors.
It is our belief that caramel malts produced on a roaster have very different
flavor profiles than caramel malts of similar color produced on a drying kiln.
Because of the efficiency in conversion and higher heat application at higher
water activity, the concentration and wider profile of maillard end products
produced in a roaster provide more flavor intensity and complexity than
caramel malts produced on a kiln.
All Briess caramel malts are roasted. We
operate both drum and traditional
ball roasters
David Kuske is maltster at the Chilton Malting Division of
Briess Industries, Inc. He has a Bachelor of Science Degree in
biological sciences with a minor in chemistry, and extensive
experience in malting, quality control and research and development.
David began his career at Ladish Malting in Jefferson, Wisconsin, in
1988 and joined Briess in 1995 at our Waterloo Malting Division. David now
manages the production of more than 40 varieties of base and specialty
malts at the Chilton Malting Division, and is active in the American Malting
Barley Associations as a participant and presenter. He is also an active
member of the MBAA, and past president of ASBC Local 4 Milwaukee
Chicago.
First, it is important to understand the chemistry behind producing caramel
malts and how different equipment design can affect the reactions. Producing
caramel malt is essentially a two-step process. The first step involves
conversion of the endosperm, which is temperature and especially moisture
dependent enzymatic degradation of the starches and proteins into sugars,
dextrins, amino acids and short chain polypeptides. These are the precursors
to caramelization and maillard reactions.
Roasters are specifically designed to control the airflow during this process to
minimize moisture loss. In addition, the small batch size and rotating action in
a roaster allows for very rapid and uniform heating of the grain to the optimum
temperature for enzymatic activity. All of this equates to a much more
efficient conversion and thus higher levels of precursor production.
Kilns are essentially designed to dry large batch size quantities of malt over a
period of 24-48 hours. Because of the large batch size, it is difficult to
achieve uniform grain temperature across the bed. The burners used in a kiln
are designed to heat great expanses of air which makes it economically
unfeasible to retrofit them to achieve temperatures common in roasting.
Modifications can be made to drying kilns in an effort to retain moisture for
the conversion step, but moisture loss is much more prevalent.
Once the precursors are produced, the moisture is allowed to escape from
the drum while the temperature of the grain is increased rapidly. Higher
temperature applied at higher water activity allows for more efficient
production of more complex maillard end products in higher concentrations.
The maillard end products are all responsible for color development, but are
unique in their flavor contributions. The Furans tend to provide sweet,
sugary, caramel, fruity and malty flavors.
The Pyrans tend to give more breadlike and toasty flavors. The Pyrroles
provide more nutty, raisin and licorice flavors, while the Pyrazines start
providing chocolate, coffee, cocoa and even roasted nutty flavors.
It is our belief that caramel malts produced on a roaster have very different
flavor profiles than caramel malts of similar color produced on a drying kiln.
Because of the efficiency in conversion and higher heat application at higher
water activity, the concentration and wider profile of maillard end products
produced in a roaster provide more flavor intensity and complexity than
caramel malts produced on a kiln.
All Briess caramel malts are roasted. We
operate both drum and traditional
ball roasters
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