From most accounts, Bev Seal Ultra needs somewhere around 1.5X the length of solid PVC line (eg: Bevlex 200), maybe even a bit more than that. I would plan on starting with ~18 feet and see where it leads...
Cheers!
Kegging & Misc Question
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From most accounts, Bev Seal Ultra needs somewhere around 1.5X the length of solid PVC line (eg: Bevlex 200), maybe even a bit more than that. I would plan on starting with ~18 feet and see where it leads...
Cheers!
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brew703
Well-Known Member
yeah, not planning on getting the freezer until black friday or around that time. the 7.1 cft is $169 or $179 and that's the size i want.
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brew703
Well-Known Member
That's the frustrating part. I've read some posts where some people say 10' of this tubing works, sometimes even less. Mike's calculator shows about 10' and that's taking into account 3.5' from keg to tap (dont think it will be that far), 12 PSI, 3/16" line, 10 sec flow rate and final gravity of 1.010. I realize this calculator is probably using regular beer line and not Accuflex or Bev Seal.
Can someone who uses this tubing please provide the length you use to get a good pour w/no foam? I wonder how length will play as i have flow control taps. All info is appreciated.
Mine are 15' long and one of them foams once in awhile. I think it's due to the line getting warm as it's the only one still on top of the kegs. I'll be getting the 90 deg John Guest fittings to try to keep the lines between the kegs and the wall of the freezer.
I would start with a min. of 15' of line and go from there.
I would start with a min. of 15' of line and go from there.
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brew703
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Thanks. Since i have 50' coming, guess i'll cut one line at 16.5' that way I'll get 3 runs if i have to keep them at that length.
I suspect all line calculators (even the 99% that are total crapware) are based on solid PVC line...
Cheers!
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brew703
Well-Known Member
I looked at Mikes calculator and it appears his is based on regular beer line.According to his calculator, i would need right under 10' of beer line so if i take that x1.5 comes to 15. So I'll probably go with 16.5' and hope that it's not more than that.
Regular beer line = solid PVC
And Bev Seal Ultra is an Accuflex line. No "or" there.
You can trust Mike's calculator for solid PVC, the mystery remains how to adjust the calculated values for Ultra. It's definitely somewhere around 1.5x, but probably a bit higher.
The difference in line resistance has been attributed to the PET liner.
That could be true, but I've also read multiple accounts that claimed Ultra doesn't actually come in a legitimate 3/16" (.1875) ID - it's closer to 1/5".
If you use .200" ID in Mike's calculator the calculated line length increases by almost 40%.
Toss in a slicker PET liner and it's not hard to imagine why folks running Ultra use so much more line than PVC...
Cheers!
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brew703
Well-Known Member
Well ****. Guess I should have went with the regular stuff. Figured this line was better, last longer and not have to change as often.
Due solely to the PET liner, I do believe the Ultra is could last longer if maintained well and thus shouldn't need replacing as often. It's also less O2 permeable than PVC, if that matters. Add that up and I'd say on balance it's a "better" tubing.
You just need to account for its transfer performance...
Cheers!
Brew_G
Well-Known Member
I finished my 3-tap keezer and tapped my first beer about a month ago, so my experience is limited only to that one beer, but...
I have Accu-Flex Bev-Seal Ultra lines at 11' apiece with vertical distance from keg to tap of about 8". My keezer is 41F and the regulator is set at 12 psi - pours are not overly foamy in the least.
The only thing with the lines is that my Perlick 630SS shank combo came with the tailpiece, so I couldn't use the John Guest fittings. It was a bit of a pain to connect the line, but after trying a couple times I did some more research and found a more efficient way to connect to the tailpiece.
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brew703
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. Regarding your lines, did you just guesstimate the length or used a calculator?
I will be using the John Guest fittings. I ordered the shanks without the tail piece.
A lot of people say 1.5x regular beer line for Accuflex.
If I use .200 as the hose diameter with 8" from keg to tap, 12psi Mikes Calculator shows 14.2'. If i leave the diameter at .1875 the hose length would be 10.42'.
I don't think there is a calculator for the Accuflex hose so it appears to be trial and error. I'm leaning towards going with 15' or 16.5' and cut back as needed.
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brew703
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Where is the best place to obtain kegs? Has anyone bought some from Ebay?
I would like to acquire a couple more as I would like to start fermenting in kegs.
I would like to acquire a couple more as I would like to start fermenting in kegs.
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brew703
Well-Known Member
Craigslist in my area doesn't have much. I search Craigslist 2-3 times a week.
KegConnection is where i got the two from.
KegConnection is where i got the two from.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
I tried to tell ya Sanke kegs with flow control and 4 or 5 ft lines for a perfect pour. No 14 ft coiled up lines sitting on a keg to deal with. No why am I getting flat beer or foamy beer or foamy flat beer questions that are everywhere around here. No slow pours...Its not you. Nobody ever listens. For some reason people like fighting to get a good pour around here instead of just getting the right system from the get go....I'll never understand
Don't we get to make our own choices, even if they go counter to what you feel is the best choice?
lol!
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, and I don't want to seem rude about it. It just blows my mind that as things evolve most everyone evolves with it.
No more secondaries
Buckets instead of Carboys work just fine
No chill brewing...
And many other things in brewing have changed and many/most change with it....except kegs. Most will always recommend Cornies when sankes are far better in every way. I say this as I've used cornies and battled line length, and leaky seals, and clogged dip tubes, and less than stellar pours. I wish someone would have mentioned sankes from the get go and save me time money and aggravation and the reason I mention them to anyone getting started. Maybe it'll help someone to get a better system with hassle free pours right out of the gate(subjective but not really) Not being combative, quit the opposite, Giving real advise I wish someone gave me
Do you do closed transfers with a sanke? I would be interested to see how that works, probably the same as with a cornie
Claiming that Sankes are "better in every way" and constantly implying that people must be stupid to keep using cornies pretty much ends any rational discussion on the topic...
Cheers!
Cheers!
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
For the sake of not being definitive I'll rephrase my statement and say better in most ways....I've never implied once that people are stupid let alone consistently. What I do say is I don't understand why people are always pushing cornies when there are better options. My opinion on a forum filled with opinions
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brew703
Well-Known Member
JR, i appreciate your insight on Sanke kegs. For me, ball locks or pin locks are more readily available. I did a search on Craigslist and there are no sanke kegs to be found. They ones out there are 3-4 times the cost of a ball lock/pin lock.
Maybe these are not as good as Sanke kegs but people have been using them for years. If i could find a sanke for cheap i would give it a try. But for now, i'll start off with ball locks and hope I can find a good line length without too much trouble.
Futhermore, I started this tread to gain some insight and information on kegging. Didnt want it to turn into a p@@@'g match between ball locks/pin locks and sanke's.
I do appreciate all the info so far in this thread and it has helped me in putting together my system. Being new to kegging, all the info available on line is sometimes overwhelming and this forum has helped me in many ways as i conquer this obsession.
I'll keep this thread going with questions and updates and will post line length's which work for my setup. Hopefully it will help others in their setups.
I plan on keeping a keezer temp of 38 or below. I'll have a fan circulating air so hopefully that will keep the temps more even and minimize foaming.
As for line length, I used Mikes calculator and changed the line diameter to .2000 instead of .1875 which someone mention in this thread. Assuming a 2' distance between keg and tap, total line length is 13.51'. If i leave line diameter at .1875, 2' distance, 10 sec pour, 1.009 final gravity, 12PSI total line length is 9.91'. Take that times 1.5 comes to 14.7'. So that's a little over a foot difference. I'll play on the safe side and go 16.5' on the first one and go from there. Hopefully that will be sufficient.
Maybe these are not as good as Sanke kegs but people have been using them for years. If i could find a sanke for cheap i would give it a try. But for now, i'll start off with ball locks and hope I can find a good line length without too much trouble.
Futhermore, I started this tread to gain some insight and information on kegging. Didnt want it to turn into a p@@@'g match between ball locks/pin locks and sanke's.
I do appreciate all the info so far in this thread and it has helped me in putting together my system. Being new to kegging, all the info available on line is sometimes overwhelming and this forum has helped me in many ways as i conquer this obsession.
I'll keep this thread going with questions and updates and will post line length's which work for my setup. Hopefully it will help others in their setups.
I plan on keeping a keezer temp of 38 or below. I'll have a fan circulating air so hopefully that will keep the temps more even and minimize foaming.
As for line length, I used Mikes calculator and changed the line diameter to .2000 instead of .1875 which someone mention in this thread. Assuming a 2' distance between keg and tap, total line length is 13.51'. If i leave line diameter at .1875, 2' distance, 10 sec pour, 1.009 final gravity, 12PSI total line length is 9.91'. Take that times 1.5 comes to 14.7'. So that's a little over a foot difference. I'll play on the safe side and go 16.5' on the first one and go from there. Hopefully that will be sufficient.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
All good...good luck. Either way your going to love kegging. Brings a whole new aspect to brewing....and the cool factor doesn't hurt either 
Brew_G
Well-Known Member
Great question, and I have to admit that I can't quite recall! I planned my keezer and bought most of the gear well over a year ago, but life got in the way so it's only recently that I've been able to get the time to complete my build.
That said, I did a ton of research on the forums and I may have looked at calculators. And in looking at the calculators now (at 0.1875") it looks like I got it spot on. Like I said before, my pours have been great [knock on wood] and I've got absolutely no complaints about how this adventure has turned out so far!
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brew703
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I want to have a dedicated line for racking from carboy to keg. I already have the sterile siphon w/ss racking cane. Instead of buying the additional fittings I figured I can just go with what I have.
The problem i have is the liquid line. The racking cane takes 3/8" ID tubing. the liquid disconnect takes 1/4 or 3/16 ID tubing. Do you think 1/4 ID tubing would stretch over the 3/8" racking cane?
The problem i have is the liquid line. The racking cane takes 3/8" ID tubing. the liquid disconnect takes 1/4 or 3/16 ID tubing. Do you think 1/4 ID tubing would stretch over the 3/8" racking cane?
I use a plastic beer disconnect with 1/4" male flare threads and jamb it into 3/8" tubing with a worm clamp to keep it tight.
Much less line resistance than my 3/16" ID beer tubing so the racking goes a bit faster...
Cheers!
Much less line resistance than my 3/16" ID beer tubing so the racking goes a bit faster...
Cheers!
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
3/8 takes awhile to rack. Like 10 minutes or so if I remember right. Enough where it starts to feel like a long time standing there.
I switched to 1/2" auto siphon and timed a 5.5 gallon transfer to 1 minute. Way more enjoyable.
I switched to 1/2" auto siphon and timed a 5.5 gallon transfer to 1 minute. Way more enjoyable.
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brew703
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Has anyone had a keg lid that when pushed down on the lid it pushes in towards the keg and leaks? I ordered two "B" grade kegs from KegConnection. On one keg the lid doesn't fit tight. Basically very little pressure locks the lid in place. The other one fits really tight and there is no "give" when pressed.
So i called KC and was told to adjust the two loops that the latch goes through. I assume one would take a hammer to "mash" in the two loops which should give less clearance making a tighter seal when the latch is closed.
Has anyone had to do this? And is it simply just taking a hammer and reducing the clearance?
So i called KC and was told to adjust the two loops that the latch goes through. I assume one would take a hammer to "mash" in the two loops which should give less clearance making a tighter seal when the latch is closed.
Has anyone had to do this? And is it simply just taking a hammer and reducing the clearance?
I haven't had to do this.
What you can also try is to put a small disk (penny, dime, piece of flat plastic, whatever) underneath the legs of the bale so that they have a higher (than the lid) surface to push against.
One thing that I learned about keg lids is they need to be "set" with pressure for them to seal reliably. They may or may not seal with just the pressure of the bale.
One other thing: are you using keg lube on the big O-ring for the lid? If not, this will help it slide into place so it seals correctly.
Finally, places like this sell larger-diameter keg lid O-rings to help solve this issue.
I can't recall anyone "pushing" corny kegs.
I'm not even tempted to try sankes, simply because what I have works terrifically, so what's the point?
There are reasons NOT to use sanke kegs.
Here's one: can't be easily stacked.
Here's another: Don't come in small sizes like 1.5, 2, 3 gallons.
Here's another: aren't readily available used at cheaper prices like corny kegs are available.
Here's another: can't be as easily sprayed out as corny kegs.
Here's another: new, they're more expensive than Torpedo kegs made of the same stuff.
Here's another: to switch requires changing the QDs to a sanke connector, costing more money.
Here's another: they don't come in two 5-gallon form factors, i.e., pin lock and ball lock. Torpedoes come in both form factors (and both are ball-lock connectors), which means the shorter ones will fit on my keezer's compressor hump while the taller style of the sanke keg, w/ connector, will not. According to http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/home_brew/kegs/KEG-165G-D_threaded_D_valve_keg.html the height is 23.25" and the D coupler and beer line will add 5.5" for a total of 28.75". Too tall.
Here's another: they're heavier than corny kegs according to this source here at Beverage Factory: http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/home_brew/kegs/KEG-165G-D_threaded_D_valve_keg.html If the "Specifications" tab is correct, they weigh....27.75 pounds empty. It's not that fun to lift a full corny keg into my keezer; can't imagine why I'd want to add another 20+ pounds.
*********
In short, Johnny, while you may feel they are superior there are clearly reasons--good reasons, rational reasons, fiscal reasons--for people to prefer corny kegs over sanke kegs.
In fact, when I look back over the list above, I wonder why anyone would even consider sanke kegs. Don't you?
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brew703
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Didn't think about the penny or dime. Gonna try that. Yes i did lube the o-ring. When the kegs arrived, both had pressure but when i pressed on the lids one of them wasn't tight and lost pressure.
Not a big deal as i have two other kegs. I will say that the B grade kegs from KegConnection are pretty beat up. I don't mind the dings but each one has one handle missing (which i expected) but the handle that is left on one is about to fall off. Not sure how long it will last with 5 gallons of beer. KC suggested I use epoxy and that should hold. I'll do that but in my opinion this particular keg should not have been classed as B grade. Had the handle that was left been secure then i would have no issue.
Oh well. Have 4 kegs now. Probably will not need any more unless I start fermenting in them.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
I've moved on but since you feel the need to drag me back in. I'll give you a few reasons Sankes are better...and then I'm out.I can't recall anyone "pushing" corny kegs.
I'm not even tempted to try sankes, simply because what I have works terrifically, so what's the point?
There are reasons NOT to use sanke kegs.
Here's one: can't be easily stacked.
Here's another: Don't come in small sizes like 1.5, 2, 3 gallons.
Here's another: aren't readily available used at cheaper prices like corny kegs are available.
Here's another: can't be as easily sprayed out as corny kegs.
Here's another: new, they're more expensive than Torpedo kegs made of the same stuff.
Here's another: to switch requires changing the QDs to a sanke connector, costing more money.
Here's another: they don't come in two 5-gallon form factors, i.e., pin lock and ball lock. Torpedoes come in both form factors (and both are ball-lock connectors), which means the shorter ones will fit on my keezer's compressor hump while the taller style of the sanke keg, w/ connector, will not. According to http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/home_brew/kegs/KEG-165G-D_threaded_D_valve_keg.html the height is 23.25" and the D coupler and beer line will add 5.5" for a total of 28.75". Too tall.
Here's another: they're heavier than corny kegs according to this source here at Beverage Factory: http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/home_brew/kegs/KEG-165G-D_threaded_D_valve_keg.html If the "Specifications" tab is correct, they weigh....27.75 pounds empty. It's not that fun to lift a full corny keg into my keezer; can't imagine why I'd want to add another 20+ pounds.
*********
In short, Johnny, while you may feel they are superior there are clearly reasons--good reasons, rational reasons, fiscal reasons--for people to prefer corny kegs over sanke kegs.
In fact, when I look back over the list above, I wonder why anyone would even consider sanke kegs. Don't you?
Heres one: They serve better
Heres another: They serve better
Heres another: They serve better
Heres another: They clean just as easy
Heres another: They weigh a difference of 3 pounds...time to lift some weights if that's an issue
Heres another: They never leak
Heres another: They're a difference of around $40 for a new sanke vs used corny. Not breaking the bank for hassle free pours for the money I've seen spent around here...and they're new
Heres another: Not having 13 ft of lines coiled up or looking ridiculous that are a PITA to deal with
Heres another: Can go get any beer you want because ALL kegs come in a sanke
Heres another: ENDLESS why are my pours flat and foamy threads with Cornys...because there a PITA to dial in correctly after traveling down an interstate of beer line
Heres another: slow pours from Cornys
Heres another: Every beer serving establishment in the country/world uses Sankes for a reason....there better
Heres another: Sankes are shorter and a low profile Perlick tap REALLY makes it shorter so You should love that for your hump (picture)
Heres another big one: Cornys aren't even designed to serve beer
Heres another big one: A skinny rather pathetic looking dip tube just waiting to clog and/or cause issues vs a spear with an engineered end designed for beer (picture)
Heres another: You'll never have to deal with the crap the OP is already dealing with in #69 and#70 that seems flat out unenjoyable and he hasn't even gotten to the "why am I having issues with my pours" that are almost inevitable
And last but not least your commenting on something you've never tried and never plan to.....pretty much ends all rational discussion.
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brew703
Well-Known Member
Both MG & JR make valid points. I can see how the dip tube on a corney could be an issue getting clogged. Since I'm new to kegging and haven't even got my system up yet, I'm sure I will have issues with pours.
I checked Ebay and Craigslist and I didn't see any sanke's available. There are some new ones for about $110 each plus shipping, not including the connections.
I've actually seen some commercial breweries using corney's but there are also alot of Sanke's. Especially some local breweries.
I'm not going to say i would never use them- if they were readily available I would consider depending on price and cost for attachments etc. I do like the idea of fermenting in sanke's with the attachment from brewers hardware but that can be done w/corney's.
For me it came down to cost and what's available. Corney's may not be made for beer but a lot of people use them so they must work good enough. I'll take the chance and hope I don't have a lot of issues with my setup.
I checked Ebay and Craigslist and I didn't see any sanke's available. There are some new ones for about $110 each plus shipping, not including the connections.
I've actually seen some commercial breweries using corney's but there are also alot of Sanke's. Especially some local breweries.
I'm not going to say i would never use them- if they were readily available I would consider depending on price and cost for attachments etc. I do like the idea of fermenting in sanke's with the attachment from brewers hardware but that can be done w/corney's.
For me it came down to cost and what's available. Corney's may not be made for beer but a lot of people use them so they must work good enough. I'll take the chance and hope I don't have a lot of issues with my setup.
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brew703
Well-Known Member
I did but it was about the same. May try to find some new rubber feet or whatever you call them. The pieces that fit on the end of the latch legs.
You should take mongoose33's advice and try putting a coin under each foot before latching the bail to see if the extra pressure on the O-ring seals the keg.
As for replacing the "feet" I expect that will bring no joy unless they are actually worn thin (which pretty much never happens). If there's a problem it's usually the bail has been bent over time.
An easy solution is to use a fatter lid O-ring, like this...
Cheers!
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brew703
Well-Known Member
I received two kegs today from AIH. I'm cleaning one with PBW. is it normal to leak if there is no pressure in the tank? When i shake and flip over the PBW leaks from the lid. Both came in fully pressurized so i know it's air tight so i suspect since there is no co2 the lid isn't sit right or tight enough to seal the lid completely shut.
Is it best to dis assemble these kegs and clean the posts, dip tube etc?
For those using quick disconnects for gas line, what size disconnect is needed? Most of what i see if 1/8". Is it best to go with stainless or plastic disconnects?
Is it best to dis assemble these kegs and clean the posts, dip tube etc?
For those using quick disconnects for gas line, what size disconnect is needed? Most of what i see if 1/8". Is it best to go with stainless or plastic disconnects?
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brew703
Well-Known Member
Got my parts in for my closed transfer from carboy to keg. I bought a universal poppet (http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843332.htm)
post (https://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-Keg-Gas-Post_p_7459.html) adaptor (https://www.homebrewing.org/Plug-Adapter-14-FFL-x-1932_p_4637.html) & barb (https://www.homebrewing.org/SS-14-MFL-x-14-barb_p_3607.html).
As far as i can tell, everything connects. However the poppet doesn't seat flush with the head on the post. Would this pose an issue with leakage?
Would cutting the last spring make it seat better?
When the post and adapter are screwed together, it fits tight so I'm not sure if cutting the spring would solve the problem as i don't think i can screw the fittings any tighter.
post (https://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-Keg-Gas-Post_p_7459.html) adaptor (https://www.homebrewing.org/Plug-Adapter-14-FFL-x-1932_p_4637.html) & barb (https://www.homebrewing.org/SS-14-MFL-x-14-barb_p_3607.html).
As far as i can tell, everything connects. However the poppet doesn't seat flush with the head on the post. Would this pose an issue with leakage?
Would cutting the last spring make it seat better?
When the post and adapter are screwed together, it fits tight so I'm not sure if cutting the spring would solve the problem as i don't think i can screw the fittings any tighter.
It's fine, the poppet seals by its O-ring, so even if the metal portion doesn't end up flush with the top of the post the O-ring will still seal.
The spring typically only needs trimming when used on short posts eg: as found on Firestone Challenger/Super Challenger kegs...
Cheers!
The spring typically only needs trimming when used on short posts eg: as found on Firestone Challenger/Super Challenger kegs...
Cheers!
