Just poured 21L down the toilet, would like to know what I did wrong before trying again

[dwhite60]

What temperature should the mash be boiled at?
Do I need to be careful about the mash getting too hot (E.g not hotter then 158F) if I'm boiling for an hour afterwards anyway?

I'll reiterate what someone else said.

http://www.howtobrew.com/

One read of this and most all your questions will be answered. Yes, taking the time to read and learn sucks but, sometimes it's just the best way to do it.

I started playing fiddle and harmonica by ear. Once I did some reading, learned some music theory, and PAINFULLY learned to read music, my playing improved tremendously.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[camonick]

What temperature should the mash be boiled at?
Do I need to be careful about the mash getting too hot (E.g not hotter then 158F) if I'm boiling for an hour afterwards anyway?

The mash is NEVER boiled (or even close). The temperature the mash needs to be held at depends on what style of beer you're brewing. The range of the mash temperature is typically 145-158 degrees, again... dependent on style. A mash that is too hot will denature the enzymes and prevent them from converting the starch to sugar. The boil after the mash is a completely different step in the process.
Follow all the advice above and read, read, read. Understand what all the different processes are and why we do them. Here is another good read about the mash process: https://www.morebeer.com/articles/mashing101

 

[BrewingNoobing]

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

"Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized."

 

[BrewingNoobing]

"What's in the little bag in front of the grain, is that your hops? Those should be stored in the freezer. (that's the least of your problems right now, but will be a problem later)"

Not trying to argue but the guy at the brewery store said the hops do not need to be in a freezer. Are they required to be in the freezer?

 

[jrgtr42]

Mongoose33 yes, well water is different. By "tap water' I took it as public utility water. Yes, there are unwanted chemicals in public utility water. However, a newbie has enough to worry about their first few times (hence the topic of the OP). I didn't want to overwhelm the OP with references to brewing water profiles, Brun Water spreadsheet, etc.

I agree with you. For a first time brewer, tap water is usually fine - as long as you can drink it and you don't taste anything weird in it, it's fine for brewing.
When I started, I did not use my tap water - it was municipal, there wasn't anything weird, but it didn't taste right to drink straight. I wasn't going to sit there and strain 7 gallons through my Brita, so I did get bottled spring water from the supermarket. My beer still wasn't great, but it was my first time.
In the case when the other poster is getting his well water from super deep, yeah, not good for brewing.
Yes, as you get better and deeper into brewing then having an RO machine and building water from scratch per the style is preferable, but that's not something to worry a first-timer about, when s/he's got a million other things going on to worry. And in this case, the water is the least of his concerns.

 

[camonick]

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

"Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized."

Again... read, read, read. Pay close attention to the terminology and what it means. I’m not sure you understand the difference between the mashing process and then boiling the wort produced from that process.

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

Yes, you do boil AFTER the mash is complete. They are 2 different and separate steps. What @FunkedOut stated in that post is 100% correct.
Do you know anybody else who homebrews? Where are you located? It was also recommended above to seek out and shadow someone else who knows the process.

 

[IslandLizard]

That! ^

If that sack of grain there is unmilled, don't forget to mill your grain before mashing it. Whole kernels can't be mashed (enzymes converting grain starches to sugars) as the water can't penetrate and hydrate them, so you end up with water, and no (sugary, sweet) wort.

Milling finer gives faster and more complete conversion in the mash but if milled too fine the mash won't drain well after it's done. After milling there should be very few (white) grain pieces larger than 3/32", lots of brown empty husks and very little dust.

BTW, that's a really nice quality malt you have there! When all ingredients are handled and brewing processes applied correctly, it should make some very yummy beer!

Hops should be stored in the original (mylar) bags, ideally in the freezer. You may put the mylar bag(s) containing the hops inside a ziplock bag as you did here, that's fine. The less air inside the better. They keep best in the freezer, especially after opening.

A few weeks stored in the fridge is OK, but freezing is much better for hops' longevity. To store an opened bag with hops, squeeze all air out, roll up the flap tightly as you squeeze, then tape it down to the bulky body of the bag. The less air inside (oxygen is the bandit here) the better your hops keep.

 

[eric19312]

That's what I thought but a comment above says to boil after mashing:

"Mill the grains.
Mash the grains for 1 hour at 150*F.
Drain into a boil kettle.

Boil for 1 hour with hops (this is the step where you kill all the nasty stuff that will ruin your beer).
*After boiling is complete, you start worrying about making sure everything that touches your wort/beer is sanitized."

Drain into a boil kettle in this context means to separate the remaining mash solids from the mash liquid. The brewing term for this is lautering and if you rinse these solids with some fresh hot water that is called sparging. The sweet liquid you collect is sweet wort, that’s what gets boiled with hops for 60 min.

 

[kh54s10]

There was a lot done wrong so it is no wonder it was bad. But the mold etc means infection. That is probably because nothing was boiled. Though there are no boil procedures. But, it could also have been that sanitation was also lacking.

 

[OnePlate]

... the guy at the brewery store said ...

The guy at the brewery store should have sold you a copy of www.howtobrew.com. As has been stated before, this should be required reading for you. Either read that website or go back to the brew store and buy the most recent edition of the book if he has a copy, or order it from Amazon. If you are the kind of person who does not like to read, then this is going to be a difficult hobby for you to learn properly, let alone make a beer you are proud to drink.

I'm not trying to be harsh or unhelpful here, rather I want you to get the best straightforward education on home brewing that a bunch of disjointed forum posts that occasionally turn into long-winded debates will not provide for you. Self-education is one of the biggest parts of this hobby if you do not have someone with brewing experience to hold your hand through brewing a batch. YouTube videos can help add clarity after reading about the process of brewing but they are not a substitute for reading a book that is basically the best place to start with home brewing.

We all started out somewhat confused and have had batches of beer that did not turn out well or at all. Do not get discouraged! Stick with it and you will find this is one of the most fulfilling hobbies you can imagine.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For a first time brewer, tap water is usually fine - as long as you can drink it and you don't taste anything weird in it, it's fine for brewing.

Advice from a local homebrewer, homebrew club, or LHBS would be an easy way to find out if the water is not fine. Water for brewing probably doesn't summarize to a paragraph, but maybe 600 words is short but accurate enough to get started:

When it comes to brewing water treatment there are 3 goals we brewers are trying to achieve:

• eliminate off-flavor causing water compounds: this is largely the removal of chlorine
• provide a water ion profile that supports the desired flavor of the beer
• provide a water and grist composition that settles at a desirable mash pH

...

https://beerandbrewing.com/brewing-water/ is a nice summary of what HtB (4e) says about water for both "extract" and "all-grain" brewers.

 

[IslandLizard]

Next time I am going to ferment inside a glass carboy, with a bung and that water thing attached (Sorry don't remember the name, the bung has a hole in it and the plastic thing filled with water prevents germs from getting through I believe).
I thought a bucket with a loose lid would be okay, as I've done so with brew in a bag before transferring to a carboy

use the 3 piece airlock and a Carboy

A 6.5 gallon brew bucket with a lid, drilled for an airlock, is fine too. Avoid glass carboys, they can break...

 

[mongoose33]

I agree with you. For a first time brewer, tap water is usually fine - as long as you can drink it and you don't taste anything weird in it, it's fine for brewing.

I absolutely cannot understand where you guys are coming from. You say it's "usually" fine....so the name of the game is to just wing it? And on what basis do you say "usually"? How much is that? 51 percent of the time? 99 percent of the time? Yeah, we really don't know.

My tap water tastes great--and it's terrible for brewing. That "if it tastes good" thing fails from the get-go. Sometimes it may be OK, sometimes not, but there's no way to know.

People post water analyses of their tap water here all the time--I'd say half or more have issues, to say nothing of the chlorine that is in such water (unless it's from a well).

Every time you compromise the process you increase the chances of something going wrong. I can't see where that's the approach we want new brewers to experience.

 

[FatDragon]

<sigh>

I appreciate your desire to simplify things as much as possible. In some cases, you'll be successful in simplifying things for a new brewer by telling them, as you did above, "Tap water is fine for brewing." But not in all cases, and quite possibly not in the majority of cases. In my case, I was misled by that at the outset; fortunately, I didn't quit and doggedly pursued eliminating things that were holding down the beer I brewed.

IMO, we shouldn't say "Tap water is fine for brewing" when in fact it often is not, or it is in only some circumstances, or only if you do some amendments to it. That misleads any new brewer who reads it.

I don't know if there's anyone on this site I'd ask before you if I were trying to refine my process to make the absolute best beer possible.

But triage, my friend. When the OP is pouring unmilled malt in boiled water, adding hops, and then tossing the whole thing in a bucket (assuming it's not just a troll job, as some of these comedy of errors posts seem to be), I'd probably earmark the water discussion for after he gets the absolute basics of milling, mashing, and boiling figured out. Then again, you could always give him the steps and tell him to use bottled spring water rather than tap water while following them, with the promise that you'll explain why at a later date.

 

[BrewingNoobing]

I understand from reading these forums and other places, the tap water discussion is very controversial, some brewers swear it's fine others swear it's not. Sorry for getting too many discussions going at once..

 

[BrewingNoobing]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

 

[eric19312]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

Glass carboys are really nice. Also fragile and dangerous if cracked. Go ahead and use but be careful with handling. Really good idea not to drink if you are going to be moving one full of beer in near future.

 

[BrewingNoobing]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

 

[bracconiere]

Avoid glass carboys, they can break...

or blow up, if your stupid enough to pour hot wort in them...(lesson learned!)

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

Thermal shock. Bump. Lots of other ways to break glass, cut hand, visit hospital, stop homebrewing, ...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

What book? Title and author?

 

[jschein]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

Take a look at this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/broken-glass-carboy-horror-stories-compendium.376523/

 

[mongoose33]

I don't know if there's anyone on this site I'd ask before you if I were trying to refine my process to make the absolute best beer possible.

But triage, my friend. When the OP is pouring unmilled malt in boiled water, adding hops, and then tossing the whole thing in a bucket (assuming it's not just a troll job, as some of these comedy of errors posts seem to be), I'd probably earmark the water discussion for after he gets the absolute basics of milling, mashing, and boiling figured out. Then again, you could always give him the steps and tell him to use bottled spring water rather than tap water while following them, with the promise that you'll explain why at a later date.

I appreciate the kind words.

There are two issues here. I'm addressing the second one.

The first is what's wrong with the approach the OP is using in brewing. Water likely isn't his biggest problem as several have noted. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of how to brew, which I'm sure he's fixing now. For everyone who's making that argument: I agree. Water isn't his issue; not understanding the process is the problem. Water, later, might end up being an issue, but so much is wrong that....well, it's not the place to start.

Agreed. Absolutely agreed.

******

The second is the blanket statement that was made in the second post: "Tap water is fine for brewing."

That's just wrong. Tap water might be ok, might not. My own experiences above disproved that statement. Then later someone hauls out the old bromide, something like "If it tastes good..." Same thing.

I was gentle and nice earlier in the thread, now I'm going to be a bit more direct: It's WRONG.

(How is the tap water in China? )

Tap water might be ok, might not be, but no new brewer, IMO, should be led astray by this as I was led astray, trying to make beer using water wholly inappropriate for most styles of beer, including all the ones I brew.

****

So--is water the OP's biggest problem? I'd agree, no, at least, it's not the place to start. But at the same time, I also believe we shouldn't be making blanket statements about things that are often not correct.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

OP did ask directly about water in the initial set of questions:

Questions: Was tap water okay to use?

 

[kh54s10]

OP did ask directly about water in the initial set of questions:

There is no positively correct answer to that question. It might be good it might be so-so or it could be bad and anywhere in between.

I guess I got lucky. When I started brewing the directions said tap water, if it tastes good, should be fine for brewing. They were extract kits from Northern Brewer. They turned out fine. I brewed with the water for 6+ years. The only treatment I did in most of those was to run through a Brita filter and later a house type charcoal filter. I didn't even use Campden tablets.

I gave a lot of beer to friends and going by the comments and the fact that they usually asked for more I would say water was not a problem.

I have moved since and the water here is not as good. I have been getting into water treatment starting with RO water. Results are not yet consistent.

 

[Beardless]

OP asked a lot of questions in the first post, it was up to us to answer directly-

Water wasn’t your (only) issue.

Now that we’ve come full circle, everyone’s advice on here is solid. Remember, this is a beginning and each of these steps below can be plenty more complicated, has entire discussions and sub-steps as you advance. As you master “the basics” you add some of these sub-steps and tweak each of the following with technique and equipment to change your outcome. Big picture (as a beginner):

Water: use bottled to start. Don’t get too complicated from the start, but don’t ignore the importance.

Grains: visit a homebrew shop or friend and learn about crush, they must be crushed. Looks like you bought a mill, use it, but learn how so you aren’t frustrated.

Mash: read the books and forums, single batch infusion is a great place to start. Hold temperature at the required temperature (around 150 degF) for about 60 mins. Do a mash out if you like.

Boil: drain wort from grains, then boil wort for 60 minutes UNCOVERED

Hops: add during boil, read recipes/books/forum to determine when and how many (conventionally, time listed to add hops means amount of time REMAINING- 60 mins means at first bubbles and zero means when your timer times out and you turn off the burner/heat)

Cooling: many first timers use an ice bath (fill sink with ice and water, ensure it is low enough to not flow into the pot, dunk pot into water, swirl water around pot, repeat until desired temp) or an immersion chiller (more equipment). If using anything that comes in contact with wort, IT MUST BE SANITIZED. Read up. Then transfer to fermenter (again, sanitized), a 5 or 6 gallon bucket that can be sealed is perfect to start.

Pitching: once wort is down to the recommended temperature (ales are around the 70s deg F, typically) add the yeast to the wort.

Magic (science): allow yeast to eat sugar in your wort, fart out some CO2 and pee out some alcohol (not actually how it works, but it’s my favorite thought about what they’re doing in there). During this time I suggest reading heavily on sanitation and packaging (bottling or kegging). Give it some time and then try out the packaging step.

Package: read up, there are a billion (exaggeration) different parts for this. When beginning, I personally think (again- my opinion only) adding priming sugar to the batch and then bottling is good for beginners. You learn some necessary techniques, doesn’t take a lot of equipment, and after you’ve mastered it, bought a kegging setup, and realized how much easier this final step is it will make you appreciate the hobby more.

Sorry for the long post, but figured I would summarize what all the above is trying to say.

 

[applescrap]

Hey guys, I just tried my first SMASH home brew (I've done from a bag a few times, but never from scratch) a few days ago and unfortunately I checked on it today and it was disgusting. A film layer on the top, I believe some mold formed too. I had to dump it out.

Before trying again I'd like to try to figure out everything I did wrong. I'm going to post here everything I did along with a few questions at the bottom, I'm hoping some novice/experts here can help me out;

View attachment 645087

Steps I took:
Cleaned & Sanitized all equipment
Heated up 6.5L of tap water (stove top)
Poured 5.5LBs of 2 row malt into a grain bag
Put that grain bag into the boiled water
Added some hops directly into the grain bag
Kept temperature around 151 degrees for 1 hour
After 1 hour was up, added more hops
Sparged using 8.5L of tap water
Poured the mash into a fermenting bucket. Lid was loosely on top
repeated process (I halved a recipe, since my pot is small). Combining 2nd batch with the first

Questions:
Was tap water okay to use? Where I live the tap water is what we drink.
Should I have cleaned/washed the malt beforehand?
Did I add the hops properly (Straight into the grain bag) If not, could that have been part of my issue?

oops all my comments were already here. Best of luck, I'll explain the process quickly if I have time later. Also I have explained how I biab and it might help, I'll look for it.

 

[GoeHaarden]

assuming it's not just a troll job, as some of these comedy of errors posts seem to be)

That's what I'm thinking...

If not then to the OP, stop reading this thread because it's turned into a pissing match. Everyone knows more than the next...

Do yourself a favor and start here: biab-brewing as it seems in line with your intended method.

 

[eric19312]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

Awesome @BrewingNoobing you will be fine. Can’t wait to hear about next batch!

Work on the basic process and make a decent beer. One more suggestion...it was really a good move you made starting with a smash beer. I’d advise keeping your recipes on the simple side for a while. Many new brewers I’ve met jump right into crazy ingredient combinations and then bring failed batches for analysis. Really difficult to tell what’s wrong in a peanut butter celery imperial Belgian strong ale with half a dozen possible process issues.

 

[eric19312]

****

So--is water the OP's biggest problem? I'd agree, no, at least, it's not the place to start. But at the same time, I also believe we shouldn't be making blanket statements about things that are often not correct.

In fairness water does seem to have emerged over recent years in home brewing to have a bigger impact than previously assumed (back in the days of if it tastes ok it will make decent beer). For BEGINNERS I think it’s ok to just make sure to eliminate chlorine and chloramines while they work out the basic process but...

just to poke a little fun at @mongoose33 I’d point out his least favorite home brew experts over at Brulosophy.com have repeatedly shown water mineral content perceptibly impacts beer flavor. The water results indicating a tastable impact are much more consistent over many experiments than their results testing issues like fermentation temperature control, mash temperature, boil length and vigor...considerations I’d assumed from reading books and forums back in the day were way more important than worrying about my decent tasting water.