Just poured 21L down the toilet, would like to know what I did wrong before trying again

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For a first time brewer, tap water is usually fine - as long as you can drink it and you don't taste anything weird in it, it's fine for brewing.

Advice from a local homebrewer, homebrew club, or LHBS would be an easy way to find out if the water is not fine. Water for brewing probably doesn't summarize to a paragraph, but maybe 600 words is short but accurate enough to get started:

When it comes to brewing water treatment there are 3 goals we brewers are trying to achieve:

• eliminate off-flavor causing water compounds: this is largely the removal of chlorine
• provide a water ion profile that supports the desired flavor of the beer
• provide a water and grist composition that settles at a desirable mash pH

...

https://beerandbrewing.com/brewing-water/ is a nice summary of what HtB (4e) says about water for both "extract" and "all-grain" brewers.

 

[IslandLizard]

Next time I am going to ferment inside a glass carboy, with a bung and that water thing attached (Sorry don't remember the name, the bung has a hole in it and the plastic thing filled with water prevents germs from getting through I believe).
I thought a bucket with a loose lid would be okay, as I've done so with brew in a bag before transferring to a carboy

use the 3 piece airlock and a Carboy

A 6.5 gallon brew bucket with a lid, drilled for an airlock, is fine too. Avoid glass carboys, they can break...

 

[mongoose33]

I agree with you. For a first time brewer, tap water is usually fine - as long as you can drink it and you don't taste anything weird in it, it's fine for brewing.

I absolutely cannot understand where you guys are coming from. You say it's "usually" fine....so the name of the game is to just wing it? And on what basis do you say "usually"? How much is that? 51 percent of the time? 99 percent of the time? Yeah, we really don't know.

My tap water tastes great--and it's terrible for brewing. That "if it tastes good" thing fails from the get-go. Sometimes it may be OK, sometimes not, but there's no way to know.

People post water analyses of their tap water here all the time--I'd say half or more have issues, to say nothing of the chlorine that is in such water (unless it's from a well).

Every time you compromise the process you increase the chances of something going wrong. I can't see where that's the approach we want new brewers to experience.

 

[FatDragon]

<sigh>

I appreciate your desire to simplify things as much as possible. In some cases, you'll be successful in simplifying things for a new brewer by telling them, as you did above, "Tap water is fine for brewing." But not in all cases, and quite possibly not in the majority of cases. In my case, I was misled by that at the outset; fortunately, I didn't quit and doggedly pursued eliminating things that were holding down the beer I brewed.

IMO, we shouldn't say "Tap water is fine for brewing" when in fact it often is not, or it is in only some circumstances, or only if you do some amendments to it. That misleads any new brewer who reads it.

I don't know if there's anyone on this site I'd ask before you if I were trying to refine my process to make the absolute best beer possible.

But triage, my friend. When the OP is pouring unmilled malt in boiled water, adding hops, and then tossing the whole thing in a bucket (assuming it's not just a troll job, as some of these comedy of errors posts seem to be), I'd probably earmark the water discussion for after he gets the absolute basics of milling, mashing, and boiling figured out. Then again, you could always give him the steps and tell him to use bottled spring water rather than tap water while following them, with the promise that you'll explain why at a later date.

 

[BrewingNoobing]

I understand from reading these forums and other places, the tap water discussion is very controversial, some brewers swear it's fine others swear it's not. Sorry for getting too many discussions going at once..

 

[BrewingNoobing]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

 

[eric19312]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

Glass carboys are really nice. Also fragile and dangerous if cracked. Go ahead and use but be careful with handling. Really good idea not to drink if you are going to be moving one full of beer in near future.

 

[BrewingNoobing]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

 

[bracconiere]

Avoid glass carboys, they can break...

or blow up, if your stupid enough to pour hot wort in them...(lesson learned!)

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

Thermal shock. Bump. Lots of other ways to break glass, cut hand, visit hospital, stop homebrewing, ...

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

What book? Title and author?

 

[jschein]

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

Take a look at this thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/broken-glass-carboy-horror-stories-compendium.376523/

 

[mongoose33]

I don't know if there's anyone on this site I'd ask before you if I were trying to refine my process to make the absolute best beer possible.

But triage, my friend. When the OP is pouring unmilled malt in boiled water, adding hops, and then tossing the whole thing in a bucket (assuming it's not just a troll job, as some of these comedy of errors posts seem to be), I'd probably earmark the water discussion for after he gets the absolute basics of milling, mashing, and boiling figured out. Then again, you could always give him the steps and tell him to use bottled spring water rather than tap water while following them, with the promise that you'll explain why at a later date.

I appreciate the kind words.

There are two issues here. I'm addressing the second one.

The first is what's wrong with the approach the OP is using in brewing. Water likely isn't his biggest problem as several have noted. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of how to brew, which I'm sure he's fixing now. For everyone who's making that argument: I agree. Water isn't his issue; not understanding the process is the problem. Water, later, might end up being an issue, but so much is wrong that....well, it's not the place to start.

Agreed. Absolutely agreed.

******

The second is the blanket statement that was made in the second post: "Tap water is fine for brewing."

That's just wrong. Tap water might be ok, might not. My own experiences above disproved that statement. Then later someone hauls out the old bromide, something like "If it tastes good..." Same thing.

I was gentle and nice earlier in the thread, now I'm going to be a bit more direct: It's WRONG.

(How is the tap water in China? )

Tap water might be ok, might not be, but no new brewer, IMO, should be led astray by this as I was led astray, trying to make beer using water wholly inappropriate for most styles of beer, including all the ones I brew.

****

So--is water the OP's biggest problem? I'd agree, no, at least, it's not the place to start. But at the same time, I also believe we shouldn't be making blanket statements about things that are often not correct.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

OP did ask directly about water in the initial set of questions:

Questions: Was tap water okay to use?

 

[kh54s10]

OP did ask directly about water in the initial set of questions:

There is no positively correct answer to that question. It might be good it might be so-so or it could be bad and anywhere in between.

I guess I got lucky. When I started brewing the directions said tap water, if it tastes good, should be fine for brewing. They were extract kits from Northern Brewer. They turned out fine. I brewed with the water for 6+ years. The only treatment I did in most of those was to run through a Brita filter and later a house type charcoal filter. I didn't even use Campden tablets.

I gave a lot of beer to friends and going by the comments and the fact that they usually asked for more I would say water was not a problem.

I have moved since and the water here is not as good. I have been getting into water treatment starting with RO water. Results are not yet consistent.

 

[Beardless]

OP asked a lot of questions in the first post, it was up to us to answer directly-

Water wasn’t your (only) issue.

Now that we’ve come full circle, everyone’s advice on here is solid. Remember, this is a beginning and each of these steps below can be plenty more complicated, has entire discussions and sub-steps as you advance. As you master “the basics” you add some of these sub-steps and tweak each of the following with technique and equipment to change your outcome. Big picture (as a beginner):

Water: use bottled to start. Don’t get too complicated from the start, but don’t ignore the importance.

Grains: visit a homebrew shop or friend and learn about crush, they must be crushed. Looks like you bought a mill, use it, but learn how so you aren’t frustrated.

Mash: read the books and forums, single batch infusion is a great place to start. Hold temperature at the required temperature (around 150 degF) for about 60 mins. Do a mash out if you like.

Boil: drain wort from grains, then boil wort for 60 minutes UNCOVERED

Hops: add during boil, read recipes/books/forum to determine when and how many (conventionally, time listed to add hops means amount of time REMAINING- 60 mins means at first bubbles and zero means when your timer times out and you turn off the burner/heat)

Cooling: many first timers use an ice bath (fill sink with ice and water, ensure it is low enough to not flow into the pot, dunk pot into water, swirl water around pot, repeat until desired temp) or an immersion chiller (more equipment). If using anything that comes in contact with wort, IT MUST BE SANITIZED. Read up. Then transfer to fermenter (again, sanitized), a 5 or 6 gallon bucket that can be sealed is perfect to start.

Pitching: once wort is down to the recommended temperature (ales are around the 70s deg F, typically) add the yeast to the wort.

Magic (science): allow yeast to eat sugar in your wort, fart out some CO2 and pee out some alcohol (not actually how it works, but it’s my favorite thought about what they’re doing in there). During this time I suggest reading heavily on sanitation and packaging (bottling or kegging). Give it some time and then try out the packaging step.

Package: read up, there are a billion (exaggeration) different parts for this. When beginning, I personally think (again- my opinion only) adding priming sugar to the batch and then bottling is good for beginners. You learn some necessary techniques, doesn’t take a lot of equipment, and after you’ve mastered it, bought a kegging setup, and realized how much easier this final step is it will make you appreciate the hobby more.

Sorry for the long post, but figured I would summarize what all the above is trying to say.

 

[applescrap]

Hey guys, I just tried my first SMASH home brew (I've done from a bag a few times, but never from scratch) a few days ago and unfortunately I checked on it today and it was disgusting. A film layer on the top, I believe some mold formed too. I had to dump it out.

Before trying again I'd like to try to figure out everything I did wrong. I'm going to post here everything I did along with a few questions at the bottom, I'm hoping some novice/experts here can help me out;

View attachment 645087

Steps I took:
Cleaned & Sanitized all equipment
Heated up 6.5L of tap water (stove top)
Poured 5.5LBs of 2 row malt into a grain bag
Put that grain bag into the boiled water
Added some hops directly into the grain bag
Kept temperature around 151 degrees for 1 hour
After 1 hour was up, added more hops
Sparged using 8.5L of tap water
Poured the mash into a fermenting bucket. Lid was loosely on top
repeated process (I halved a recipe, since my pot is small). Combining 2nd batch with the first

Questions:
Was tap water okay to use? Where I live the tap water is what we drink.
Should I have cleaned/washed the malt beforehand?
Did I add the hops properly (Straight into the grain bag) If not, could that have been part of my issue?

oops all my comments were already here. Best of luck, I'll explain the process quickly if I have time later. Also I have explained how I biab and it might help, I'll look for it.

 

[GoeHaarden]

assuming it's not just a troll job, as some of these comedy of errors posts seem to be)

That's what I'm thinking...

If not then to the OP, stop reading this thread because it's turned into a pissing match. Everyone knows more than the next...

Do yourself a favor and start here: biab-brewing as it seems in line with your intended method.

 

[eric19312]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

Awesome @BrewingNoobing you will be fine. Can’t wait to hear about next batch!

Work on the basic process and make a decent beer. One more suggestion...it was really a good move you made starting with a smash beer. I’d advise keeping your recipes on the simple side for a while. Many new brewers I’ve met jump right into crazy ingredient combinations and then bring failed batches for analysis. Really difficult to tell what’s wrong in a peanut butter celery imperial Belgian strong ale with half a dozen possible process issues.

 

[eric19312]

****

So--is water the OP's biggest problem? I'd agree, no, at least, it's not the place to start. But at the same time, I also believe we shouldn't be making blanket statements about things that are often not correct.

In fairness water does seem to have emerged over recent years in home brewing to have a bigger impact than previously assumed (back in the days of if it tastes ok it will make decent beer). For BEGINNERS I think it’s ok to just make sure to eliminate chlorine and chloramines while they work out the basic process but...

just to poke a little fun at @mongoose33 I’d point out his least favorite home brew experts over at Brulosophy.com have repeatedly shown water mineral content perceptibly impacts beer flavor. The water results indicating a tastable impact are much more consistent over many experiments than their results testing issues like fermentation temperature control, mash temperature, boil length and vigor...considerations I’d assumed from reading books and forums back in the day were way more important than worrying about my decent tasting water.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I understand from reading these forums and other places, the tap water discussion is very controversial, some brewers swear it's fine others swear it's not. Sorry for getting too many discussions going at once..

Water profiles are something you can get into later once you're producing actual beer. Get the more basic steps down first. It's true that to make the best beer possible you probably should know what's in your brewing water but it's probably overwhelming for most beginners. I would suggest using a campden tablet if you can get your hands on some to eliminate the chlorine, because most municipal water supplies use a lot of chlorine/chloramine and that will throw noticeable off-flavors into your beer.

 

[z-bob]

Water profiles are something you can get into later once you're producing actual beer. Get the more basic steps down first. It's true that to make the best beer possible you probably should know what's in your brewing water but it's probably overwhelming for most beginners. I would suggest using a campden tablet if you can get your hands on some to eliminate the chlorine, because most municipal water supplies use a lot of chlorine/chloramine and that will throw noticeable off-flavors into your beer.

Add half a Campden tablet to your water before you start, and add an ounce of acidulated malt per gallon to the mash for light-colored beers. (if you don't need it, it won't hurt anything, and it can fix a lot of water problems)

 

[kh54s10]

Just to take the water thing further..... I think it is important. But... I would, in most cases, not look at water as the first problem. Sure there are those whose tap water is really bad for making beer. But, I would say those are few and far between. If a noob makes a bad beer the problem is 90% more likely to lie elsewhere. If you eliminate other sources of the problem, then, I would suggest just trying store bought spring water as a first step. I would put water treatment and pH very far down on the list that a new brewer should be concerned about. As I have said numerous times I made beer that my friends wanted more of and raved about for over 6 years before doing any treatment other than charcoal filtering. I didn't even use Campden tablets...

And yes I do believe that water treatment will make my great beers greater. It is just not at the top of things to look at when encountering a problem.

 

[Saunassa]

I started with extract (with separate hops and specialty grains) to get a handle on the process and made good (not great) beer. Baby steps man, it's a hobby and learning experience each and every batch.

 

[grampamark]

To summarize this thread-“When a hammer is your favorite tool every problem looks like a nail”.

 

[dwhite60]

If the OP did not crush his/her grain, boiled the entire mash, and pitched yeast into boiling hot wort, water chemistry is the absolute very LEAST of thier problems.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... and hopefully OP is aware of this ...

The second is the blanket statement that was made in the second post: "Tap water is fine for brewing."

That's just wrong. Tap water might be ok, might not. My own experiences above disproved that statement. Then later someone hauls out the old bromide, something like "If it tastes good..." Same thing.

I was gentle and nice earlier in the thread, now I'm going to be a bit more direct: It's WRONG.

... so that bad tap water isn't their next problem.

 

[InLimbo]

I appreciate the kind words.

There are two issues here.......

I redacted most of your post, because you've thoroughly beat a dead horse over the course this thread.

Whether you agree with it or not, for the vast majority of people brewing in North America and Western Europe, tap water is indeed "FINE" and even GOOD and suitable for brewing after it's been filtered. This is a fact. If your personal water still doesn't work after filtering, then you are the exception. You still haven't exactly said what's wrong with your water. Grossly over chlorinated? Or are the ion levels completely out of whack for the styles you're trying to brew? Here in western Washington our water (when filtered, with minimal adjustments if any) is great for lagers, OK for pale ales, but stouts here really struggle. When I lived in southern California, my municipality's water (after basic filtration) was perfect for stouts and porters, good for pale ales, but was not ideal for lagers. This isn't just based on my brewing experience. This is based on ~hundreds of beers I have formally tasted as a BJCP judge.

Does using the "wrong" brewing water result in a 5 gallon drain pour of an otherwise perfectly executed beer? Absolutely not. Scaring new brewers into worrying about water chemistry is irresponsible. The only water instruction new brewers should receive is to filter their brewing water to remove chlorine, brew and then taste their finished beer, and then adjust from there once they get to more advanced styles that need specific water profiles. They need to get the fundamentals down (sanitation, fresh ingredients, rigorous fermentation temperature control) before worrying about water chemistry.

 

[mongoose33]

I redacted most of your post, because you've thoroughly beat a dead horse over the course this thread.

Whether you agree with it or not, for the vast majority of people brewing in North America and Western Europe, tap water is indeed "FINE" and even GOOD and suitable for brewing after it's been filtered. This is a fact. If your personal water still doesn't work after filtering, then you are the exception. You still haven't exactly said what's wrong with your water. Grossly over chlorinated? Or are the ion levels completely out of whack for the styles you're trying to brew? Here in western Washington our water (when filtered, with minimal adjustments if any) is great for lagers, OK for pale ales, but stouts here really struggle. When I lived in southern California, my municipality's water (after basic filtration) was perfect for stouts and porters, good for pale ales, but was not ideal for lagers. This isn't just based on my brewing experience. This is based on ~hundreds of beers I have formally tasted as a BJCP judge.

Well, we're going to have to disagree here. You have no data to support your position. None. You're guessing. Don't know why you'd hold this position, but maybe just being disagreeable is the thing. I don't know.

And you may be a BJCP judge, but that gives you no additional information regarding water. None. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Does using the "wrong" brewing water result in a 5 gallon drain pour of an otherwise perfectly executed beer? Absolutely not. Scaring new brewers into worrying about water chemistry is irresponsible. The only water instruction new brewers should receive is to filter their brewing water to remove chlorine, brew and then taste their finished beer, and then adjust from there once they get to more advanced styles that need specific water profiles. They need to get the fundamentals down (sanitation, fresh ingredients, rigorous fermentation temperature control) before worrying about water chemistry.

I'm scaring nobody. I'm pointing out the problem of saying "Tap water is fine." It may be, and it may not be, and you have no evidence to the contrary. None. It's simply WRONG to say that. WRONG.

Further, anybody in my town--ANYBODY--using our tap water is going to have difficulty unless they decide to brew a stout. And they better hope they're smart enough to get rid of the chlorine. There are many other places just like mine, where the statement "Tap water is fine" is INCORRECT.

Some places have water that's fine. Some places have water like mine. But one thing is absolutely true here: when you make a blanket statement that tap water is fine for brewing, you're WRONG.

BJCP judge or not.

 

[GoeHaarden]

before worrying about water chemistry

It's quite easy actually. BrunWater software and distilled water. Keep it simple and don't worry about checking pH or getting too technical. If you can read a scale you can measure your own salts...

No, the OP's issue was not water when he didn't even know to mill his grain. His issue is lack of research and preparation.

Sure you can brew with any tap water, but not any tap water can produce good beer. You even said you struggled with stouts in Washington, and lagers in California. Unsupported blanket statements are more scary than prompting one to do more research to improve their craft...

Maybe I'm just another exception, because my all-grain beers weren't very good until I started treating my water.

 

[DiscDuffer]

WRONG

INCORRECT

WRONG

Yet I see nothing in your posts to guide a new brewer on an easy and practical solution.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Bought myself a miller, some water & a book on brewing. Also put my hops in the freezer.

Thanks everyone for the advice, I'll hopefully post back here in 2-4 weeks, less foolishly this time.

I skimmed most of the post. I am sure a lot of use made some mistakes that seem pretty silly as we look back on them. I would highly recommend starting with extract brewing. Assuming you have access to decent quality ingredients, you can make some great beers with extract, it is a much easier introduction, and you learn 80% of what is needed for all-grain brewing. I am drinking a pint of an extract batch right now.

I've never heard of glass carboys breaking, tbh I was really hoping to use one of my glass carboys

I used glass for year. I have a brewing buddy that moved to stainless after a trip to the ER and stitches from a broken carboy. I have been using primarily PET fermenters lately (Fermonster brand). Buckets are a decent starting place for a new brewer. If you use glass take care.

 

[mongoose33]

Yet I see nothing in your posts to guide a new brewer on an easy and practical solution.

Was I required to do that? You personally have offered nothing in this thread at all.

OK: RO water. Or Distilled water. Or find out if your tap water, as is, can support the style of beer you're brewing. See if there's a local homebrewer who can give you just a tad bit of advice on the local water. This isn't rocket science.

I'm all for new brewers being supported, and few here do that more than I do. But I'm also an educator, and I know that if you want people to continue with something, to see progress, you'd better try to ensure they're successful. How many home brewers have quit because the beer is lousy, and nobody told them about the importance of water? I don't know, but it seems moronic to me to send someone off on a homebrewing journey ASSUMING the water is OK.

Now, I don't tend to give up easily, but I've known brewers who try it and just quit. I'm thinking of a friend locally who used to try to brew beer, but he gave up after a number of batches because it just didn't turn out very good. He just couldn't figure it out.

Want to offer three guesses as to why?

 

[GoeHaarden]

Yet I see nothing in your posts to guide a new brewer on an easy and practical solution.

The OP and many others would benefit greatly from using this simple tool! It's hard to help people who refuse to help themselves!!!

Help us help you...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

guide a new brewer on an easy and practical solution

Easy and practical is likely to be person specific.

* for extract based brewing: "How To Brew, 4e".
* for all-grain based brewing: "Homebrew: Beyond the Basics" followed by "Brewing Better Beer".

Standard disclaimers (your mileage may vary, tax and license extract, ...) may apply.

 

[whovous]

Tap water is fine.

Except when it is not.

 

[DiscDuffer]

You personally have offered nothing in this thread at all.

You are correct. I do not know what happen to the second half of my post; I said to use spring water, so it has minerals already in it. This should be "OK" for a pale ale, which most people seem to brew first, like OP.

This isn't rocket science.

But you need more that RO or distilled water. I think the scope of water chemistry should not be in the bailiwick of a first time brewer. There has to be some easier solution.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I think the scope of water chemistry should not be in the bailiwick of a first time brewer. There has to be some easier solution.

With regard to easier approaches to water when starting out with BIAB/all-grain, have you read "Homebrew: Beyond the Basics"?

 

[mongoose33]

You are correct. I do not know what happen to the second half of my post; I said to use spring water, so it has minerals already in it. This should be "OK" for a pale ale, which most people seem to brew first, like OP.

I can imagine kits for all-grain that would include a small packet containing water adjustments; all the new brewer would have to do is provide RO water. But nobody does that. Specifying mineral water for a specific type of beer is along those lines.

But you need more that RO or distilled water. I think the scope of water chemistry should not be in the bailiwick of a first time brewer. There has to be some easier solution.

I'm still trying to figure out water chemistry.

It also depends on whether it's an all-grain or extract brew. RO would be OK for an extract brew, it's when new brewers are doing all-grain that this breaks down.

And that in itself is an issue. I don't believe new brewers should start with all-grain unless they're being guided by someone. Start with extract for a few, learn the process from the boil forward, then work back to making wort once that's done.

I taught a new brewer friend how to brew all-grain from the get-go, but I made all the decisions and he just focused on process. The first time I brewed and he watched, the second time he brewed and I watched (and offered corrections where necessary), the third time he did it alone, though I had about 5 texts and one phone call during. But he wasn't doing anything about water additions other than adding what I told him to add.

Not that it's impossible for newbies to do all-grain at the outset, but it's not the way to bet, IMO. That's where I started, and even then those beers weren't great.

So I agree with you--there should be some way to guide new brewers to success very early, reduce the complications like water chemistry, and so on.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I can imagine kits for all-grain that would include a small packet containing water adjustments; all the new brewer would have to do is provide RO water. But nobody does that.

Somebody did that (links may not last long):

https://brewngrow.com/collections/b...oducts/neipa-recipe-jucy-lucy-new-england-ipa

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0249/7934/files/New_England_IPA.pdf?15921801711403750251