Just learning about parti-gyle, brilliant!

[Coastarine]

I'm planning my first two-beers-in-one-mash; the lighter brew is a tried and true favorite, but I'm looking for a hop schedule for the stronger brew. Preferably a hop schedule from an existing similar recipe.

21 lb 9 oz Pale 2-row
2 lb 5 oz Crystal 60
3 oz Black patent

OG of entire mash is 1.068 (80% brewhouse)

This is scaled up from my irish red recipe which is 7lbs pale, 12oz crystal, 1oz Black patent.

The Irish red should come out at 1.045 and will get 1oz williamette for 60 mins and pitch S-04. Done Deal.

The bigger beer will be an American amber style winter warmer and should come out at 1.091. It will be fermented with US-05. I'd like it to be just on the hoppier side of balanced, maybe 50-60 IBU. I think I want american hops but not necessarily citrusy. I'm open to suggestion.

edit: using this for my numbers http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue2.2/moshertable.html#2

If I have to do some pre-boil back blending to get it right then I will.

 

[david_42]

Nugget for bittering and an earthy/fruity hop like Willamette are a good combination for warmers.

 

[Revvy]

Good luck....Partigyling is fun!!!!

I struggled with the math and trying to trick beersmith into giving me the numbers, but a guy came on my partigyle pumpkin ale thread and showed and easier way to figure it out....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/914714-post68.html

 

[Coastarine]

Good luck....Partigyling is fun!!!!

I struggled with the math and trying to trick beersmith into giving me the numbers, but a guy came on my partigyle pumpkin ale thread and showed and easier way to figure it out....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/914714-post68.html

Very nice, just for the sake of sharing and anyone else who might stumble upon this in a search, I'll share the method I came up with. In my case I had the recipe for the small beer and I wanted it to come out just as before, and whatever the big beer comes out as then I'll work with that. So starting with the recipe for the smaller beer:

1. Go here(edit: updated link) to find out what the gravity of the big beer will be and the total mash should be.
2. In beersmith, in the recipe for the smaller beer, adjust the batch size until the predicted OG matches your total mash predicted OG from the chart.
3. Scale the recipe to 10 gallons (or whatever your total volume will be). Save As full mash, this will give you the instructions for your mash concerning how much grain is required, water volumes, and temperatures.
4. Now using either of those recipes, adjust the batch size until the predicted OG matches your big beer OG from the chart.
5. Scale the recipe to 5 gallons, and this is the "effective recipe" for the big beer, which will allow you to plan the hop schedule adjusted for utilization.

This method keeps the grist percentages constant in both recipes and relies on the accuracy of the chart to predict the gravities of the two batches. From what I've read, the gravities are more likely to be further apart than closer together, probably varying with the crush, vigorious stirring, etc. If that's the case then take a quart from one, pour it into the other, and then reverse the process and this should gradually bring the gravities closer and closer. If the two batches come out with gravities that are too close, might as well just combine them and make one double batch.

 

[Evan]

Very nice, just for the sake of sharing and anyone else who might stumble upon this in a search, I'll share the method I came up with. In my case I had the recipe for the small beer and I wanted it to come out just as before, and whatever the big beer comes out as then I'll work with that. So starting with the recipe for the smaller beer:

1. Go here to find out what the gravity of the big beer will be and the total mash should be.
2. In beersmith, in the recipe for the smaller beer, adjust the batch size until the predicted OG matches your total mash predicted OG from the chart.
3. Scale the recipe to 10 gallons (or whatever your total volume will be). Save As full mash, this will give you the instructions for your mash concerning how much grain is required, water volumes, and temperatures.
4. Now using either of those recipes, adjust the batch size until the predicted OG matches your big beer OG from the chart.
5. Scale the recipe to 5 gallons, and this is the "effective recipe" for the big beer, which will allow you to plan the hop schedule adjusted for utilization.

This method keeps the grist percentages constant in both recipes and relies on the accuracy of the chart to predict the gravities of the two batches. From what I've read, the gravities are more likely to be further apart than closer together, probably varying with the crush, vigorious stirring, etc. If that's the case then take a quart from one, pour it into the other, and then reverse the process and this should gradually bring the gravities closer and closer. If the two batches come out with gravities that are too close, might as well just combine them and make one double batch.

very nice. Been wanting to try this sometime, maybe my next brewday!

 

[Coastarine]

I took another look at how the color should come out and I have a slightly modified recipe:

21 lb 8 oz pale 2-row
2 lb 5 oz Crystal 60
5 oz Black Patent
5 oz Chocolate

This leaves the red ale at 1.046 and 12 SRM. It still gets 1oz Williamette for 60 which leaves it with 21 IBU

The warmer is now going to be much darker, and I'm referring to it as an american winter brown ale. Still 1.092, but 30 SRM. I think I've picked my hop schedule for a total of 58 IBU:

1oz Simcoe 13% 60 min 35 IBU
2oz Williamette 5.5% 20 min 18 IBU
2oz Williamette 5.5% 5 min 5 IBU

 

[Saccharomyces]

Very nice, that sounds good.

 

[Coastarine]

No surprise, another iteration...probably won't be the last

I read this page http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=62046&pid=718622&st=0&#entry718622

It points out some inconsistencies with the first link I used and matches with revvy's 60/40 split. It's what the first link says in its equation, but the table doesn't match. The table in the new link makes sense. My method still works, you just need to use this table.

So the mash total OG is now 1.058, Red ale is still 1.046, and Amer Brown is 1.070.

New hop schedule for the brown, 49 IBU total:
.5 oz Simcoe 13% 60 min 20 IBU
.5 oz Simcoe 13% 25 min 14 IBU
1 oz williamette 5.5% 20 min 11 IBU
1 oz williamette 5.5% 5 min 4 IBU

 

[Coastarine]

Tomorrow is the day! Salts, hops, and grains are measured out and crushed. Equipment is laid out and ready to go. I just have to drag the brew-stand out of the shed, hook up the water and propane, and I'm off!

Final recipe:

0.75oz Newport 10% 60min 24 IBU
0.32oz Newport 10% 20min 6 IBU
1oz Willamette 4.4% 20min 8 IBU
1oz Willamette 4.4% 5min 3 IBU

Does anyone see a problem with leaving the second sparge (ie the red ale) in the mash tun during the brown ale boil, so I can just drain it after the brown is chilled and transferred?

 

[TerapinChef]

No, it's actually a good idea. The second sparge becomes the first mash of the second beer. You'll get a bit more conversion out of it, and can actually throw in more malt if you wish to change the second beer around a bit (I'm thinking base malt to up the OG of the second beer, but I don't see why you couldn't throw in a bit of roasted barley or some other specialty malt and change the characteristics of the brew all together)

 

[Coastarine]

Well it is really overcast here today but the weather says 10% chance of precip all day. Tomorrow is supposed to be rain, so I'm gonna go for it.

 

[Coastarine]

Whew! Weather held, just gave me a few drops when I was between batches. I ran out of propane just as my second sparge reached 180 so the timing was pretty good for me to run out and do a tank swap at the gas station up the road.

Winter Brown OG: 1.083
Red Ale III OG: 1.035 + 1.25lb Dextrose = 1.047

I measured the gravity into the boiler of the brown and thought I was right on target, forgetting about boiloff, so my red ale started a bit low and 1.25lb dextrose was all I had laying around. I meant to have some DME standing by but I forgot. Overall, very successful!

My dog got a dinner of beef'n barley and I'm enjoying a pete's wicked right now. Partigyle is tiring!

 

[Revvy]

Whew! Weather held, just gave me a few drops when I was between batches. I ran out of propane just as my second sparge reached 180 so the timing was pretty good for me to run out and do a tank swap at the gas station up the road.

Winter Brown OG: 1.083
Red Ale III OG: 1.035 + 1.25lb Dextrose = 1.047

I measured the gravity into the boiler of the brown and thought I was right on target, forgetting about boiloff, so my red ale started a bit low and 1.25lb dextrose was all I had laying around. I meant to have some DME standing by but I forgot. Overall, very successful!

My dog got a dinner of beef'n barley and I'm enjoying a pete's wicked right now. Partigyle is tiring!

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Saccharomyces]

'grats. I love me some partigyle BEER! Tastes like REAL BEER, not that stuff that comes in wussy bottles!!

 

[Coastarine]

Primary is done, the S-04 fermented the red ale to 1.019 for 3.6%ABV and 59% attenuation. The sample tastes nice, it has some promise.

The US-05 got the winter brown to 1.022, 8%ABV, 72% attenuation. This is the best hydro sample I've ever tasted. I don't taste the alcohol at all, and it is deliciously roasty but not harsh. Messing with the recipe just a little could make this one into a nice wee heavy.

Of course I have to let it get a little more age on it and I haven't tasted it chilled and carb'd, I predict this one is gonna be a BIG winner. If anyone wants to brew it on its own, here is how the recipe would scale out at 80% brewhouse efficiency:

OG 1.084

13lbs 8.4oz Rahr 2-row
13.3oz Crystal 60
2.2 oz Black Patent
2.2 oz Chocolate

Mash 154 60min

60min boil
1oz Newport 10% 60min 27IBU
0.43oz Newport 10% 20min 7IBU
1.33oz Willamette 4.4% 20min 9.6IBU
1.33oz Willamette 4.4% 5min 3IBU

 

[talleymonster]

...but a guy came on my partigyle pumpkin ale........

HE WHAT?!?



EDIT:

Does that improve head retention?

 

[TerapinChef]

Nice catch tally...

 

[Coastarine]

Finished product...

Winter Brown. This is still quite young, but it is good. Not amazing, but good. It hides the alcohol VERY well (8.1%). Despite good attenuation it is still quite sweet and probably could use some more IBUs. After a few sips the palate acclimates though and the complexity comes through. edit: I'm drinking the pint pictured right now and man, the longer I drink it the more delicious it becomes. I'm thinking it needs to be served a little warmer and probably in a snifter.

Red Ale. This one came out darker than I had predicted. If I had drained the mash tun after 15 minutes it would have been very light. By the time my winter brown was done boiling it had become much darker.

Partigyling was a fun experience. I'm glad I have it under my belt, and it is a nice compromise between doing a whole brew day for just one type of beer and doing two fully separate recipes. I may try it again sometime but it isn't going to become a regular thing.