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ElliotCH

NerdNewbyBrew
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
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Location
Switzerland
Hi all!

I am a 32 years old canadian living in Switzerland where we have nice four seasons.

After having lived next from several artisanal breweries that has sadly closed with time, I am starting my first home brewery.

Most of european kits available on the market aren't really good for meeting my needs because I want to be"fully industrial beer" free and figured that brewing my own would be a great experience and hobby.

Joining the community of Homebrewtalk forum is cool and will like to share my DIY experience and learn from others.


Cheers!
 
Thanks for your tips, I am partially equiped with the basics and have already started my first 20L Pilsner batch from Cooper's malt. There is two reliable suppliers in my area and since Switzerland isn't part of EU it's a bit difficult for importing good brewing material so I have to be a bit creative and pickup some technics from different brewing boards/threads.

Cheers
 
It has been my experience that with a very reasonable amount of effort and knowledge that making beer that is a least as good as commercial beer is almost inevitable. With a little skill and experience, making beer that is better than commercial brew is very possible.
 
Hi!

I have started with a 30L vessel and a Cooper Pilsner malt extract for 20L.

The malt extract has been diluted and heated up to 70C and cooled down to 22C before adding the yeast.
The yeast used was the one furnished with and has been just spread over the top without shaking or stirring.
No sugar and brewing enhancer has been added to the brew.

It is stored in a celar where the temperature varies between 5C and 13C.

I noticed that there is some activity going on but the bubbler don't seems to work as expected.

Please check the following pictures and let me know what you think

https://ibb.co/VThn43J
https://ibb.co/Q8f5R9f
https://ibb.co/55TvYFM

Cheers.

(the uploader won't take them since they are too large)
 
The bubbler locks out outside air while allowing CO2 from your beer to escape. The way it works is you put sanitizer or vodka in the bubbler and as CO2 pressure builds up, it pushes down on the liquid in the bubbler until it reaches the bottom, it then bubbles up into the next chamber and the liquid level resets until CO2 pressure builds up again. I don’t think that there is any vodka or sanitizer in your bubbler.

Also, 5-13 degrees is too cool for Cooper’s yeast. I think that it’s easier to keep your beer warm than cold, but you would still need to buy a heating pad and an inkbird controller.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HXM5UAC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited:
hi AZCoolerBrewer,

Thanks for your helpful suggestions and remarks.

I will warm up the vessel by storing it in another room.
Didn't knew the tip for the bubbler, will try it -haven't indeed put sanitizer/vodka.

I will upscale the vessel with the heating pad and the Inkbird controller for the second batch that I might already start all grain and with yeast enhancer nutrients, where I live winters usually drop down to -15C.

Cheers
 
hi all,

So since we are going to drop under the centigrade I had relocated the vessel to a warmer place, I am affraid that the brew has been shaking since the bubbler was bubbling (a lot). For the previous posts, the bubbler wasn't just working because the red cap wasn't well placed and too much air was leaking.

I cross my fingers since it's my first brew, in any cases even if it is flunked it's not a big deal since the cooper malt extract was provided with the kit. So now the vessel will stand for the next upcoming two weeks where it's 20C, -will be like partying for the ferments. I still hope it will get right with the bottling fermentation.

Will get progressively the required additional hardware for crafting an allgrain brew.

Thanks all again for your helpful remarks and welcoming to the HomeBrew talk forum.

Elliot
 
Last edited:
full



Hi all, that's what I have 48h after relocation in a warmer place.
It has really being partying inside and the bubbler is bubbling each 0.5 sec.

Are these brown spots are normal with the foam?
Hope it isn't contaminated.

Let me know what you think about.

Thanks.

Elliot
 
ElliotCH said:
full



Hi all, that's what I have 48h after relocation in a warmer place.
It has really being partying inside and the bubbler is bubbling each 0.5 sec.

Are these brown spots are normal with the foam?
Hope it isn't contaminated.

Let me know what you think about.

Thanks.

Elliot
Click to expand...

Looks good to me!
 
That's the 8th day already, the brew was a bit shy at the lower temperature when it was 10-15C.
Cooper's Pilsner extract shouldn't be around 2-3 weeks for the primary fermentation?

I figured to put it back in the colder room next Sunday to finish the fermentation for clarifying a bit the beer
(I have read that somewhere but not really sure about it's efficiency for malt extract).

What would it do if I extend the sugar of it by adding some diluted honey beyond 40C with some yeast nutriments?


Cheers.

Elliot
 
I wouldn’t add honey. You have a long brewing career ahead of you, just try and get the basics. Since your temp is still on the low side, I’d give your beer a little more time. It will clarify in the warmer temps, it just takes a little longer. Some people cold crash (put it in refrigerator temps) for 48 hours before they package the beer. I have stopped doing that because I don’t want to expose my beer to excess oxygen, but it really doesn’t seem to make that much difference to me either way, but leaving the beer to finish at colder temps is backwards. After the krausen (foam) drops, bringing it up a couple degrees for the yeast to finish and drop out is more common of a practice.

The brown spots on your krausen are completely normal.
 
Hi!

I had some sufure eggy smells issues a few days ago so after investing on how to eliminate that smell I have degazed the vessel by shaking it a few minutes. The sulfure smell then was finished. I heard that it was normal with lager yeast and now it just smells as it should.

My curiosity made me tasted the brew, despite the bitter taste probably due to that the kraussen has droped it tasted alright and seems very low in alcohol. I don't have gravity/density measurements instruments, so I can't really know what happened without values.


I am now a bit confused about what to do and I am wondering if it is possible to launch a second fermentation in the same vessel just by adding yeast and sugar? or should I just leave it an extra week before bottling it? I've seen some brewers adding sugar and hops all at the end just before bottling, would it raise the level of alcohol up?

The bubbler isn't bubbling anymore, so I guess that the yeast is done already with it's process so I wonder how it could again digest some additional sugar.

Kind regards,

Cheers.
 
ElliotCH said:
My curiosity made me tasted the brew, despite the bitter taste probably due to that the kraussen has droped it tasted alright and seems very low in alcohol. I don't have gravity/density measurements instruments, so I can't really know what happened without values.


I am now a bit confused about what to do and I am wondering if it is possible to launch a second fermentation in the same vessel just by adding yeast and sugar? or should I just leave it an extra week before bottling it? I've seen some brewers adding sugar and hops all at the end just before bottling, would it raise the level of alcohol up?

The bubbler isn't bubbling anymore, so I guess that the yeast is done already with it's process so I wonder how it could again digest some additional sugar.
Click to expand...

The airlock not bubbling might mean fermentation is finished. But it might just be leaking air (actually CO2) somewhere else, and the lower flow rate can all go through the leaking area instead of the airlock.

I wouldn't add anything without knowing the SG. You really should have a hydrometer. Without a hydrometer, I think I would just give it plenty of time (3 - 4 weeks) and then bottle. But since you're seeing some unusual behavior, it would be best to store and handle the bottles carefully in case of bottle bombs. If you can get a hydrometer soon, that would be best.
 
Hi!

It seems that the lid was indeed leaking some air, my vessel wasn't hermetically sealed neither.
Their is one slim layer of a kind of pellicule, probably some left kraussen, it has indeed droped down so the fermentation is over.

The alcohol level is very low, should I transfer the brew in a sanitize vessel and launch a second fermentation by adding sugar and yeast? Or would the alcohol litteraly ferment after the bottling with the drops? I have to buy the density tester and will also take some other stuff, would you suggest me something more such as special additives for finishing the brew in a proper way?

Cheers,

Elliot
 
By the looks of your fermentation, it was very active and healthy. I didn’t realize that you were making the pilsner kit otherwise I would have suggested slightly lower fermentation temperature to ferment it traditionally, but if I was to make a lager fermented beer tomorrow I would ferment it at the temp you did, so if you have waited 3-4 weeks. You should bottle the beer and use the amount of sugar recommended by the kit for priming or you can use domino dot sugar cubes placed in each bottle right before you cap them. It’s just enough sugar to get the carbonation in the beer. The beers take 1-3 weeks to carbonate, but just wait 2 weeks minimum.
 
Yep, looks like your first batch is well on its way. I agree with AZCoolerBrewer, take it as a learning experience and start planning your next one. Once it's bottled and conditioned it will taste quite different. Welcome to the club
 
yup,

That was the main goal of this first batch.
I will go for a Stout kit, I hope it will be better.

It has been fermented for the first 10 days at 13C then 8 more days at 19C.
The yeast has stressed a bit after relocation in the warmer storage room and was making the sulfure smell,
but I think it was in the good fermentation timeline because after degazing it has made a layer of kraussen so the yeast didn't died.

Will go to the bottling and carbonation process for learning but not for the whole 20L batch,
the brew smells alright despite the low alcool level on my tongue.
I still have to do the gravity test so maybe I'll get lucky.

What is cool about the kits it's that it requires a minimum investment and allow to upgrade the brewing material progressively. I already have found a good 8L boiling pot, heating pad, food thermometer, jars for the yeast culture, two brewing/storage locations. So I guess that I will be operational for brewing all grain by 2019 Spring. I am interrested about DYI technics, it adds some fun and cheaper.

I am also thinking about buying a second 30L vessel that can become handy for the brew transfer and brewing cider/fermenting wine.

Cheers,

Elliot
 
Hi!

So finally I received already my purchase which included some malt extract as sugar replacement and bio hops with fitlering bags.
I also bought special bohemian yeast for Pilsner that I believe is better than the one provided by the coopers' kit and also special yeast nutriments. Also got some sanitizing professional product and reusable bottles of beers with mechanic caps. Unfortunately they did not have the drops for carbonation available anymore. Hope to find them somewhere else or another way to carbonate the beer. I also have received the densimeter and will measure the gravity of my first batch, but from what I understood it would take months to make alcohol out of it and probably the provided yeast in the kit isn't appropriate for that.

Will start my second batch of Pilsner in the best practice rules on Sunday in the colder storage location so I believe it shall be ready by mid-january for bottling.

My question is that in addition of the malt extract is it possible to use also some candy sugar and honey? I believe that the honey ingredients can in a sort of way corrupt the other sugars due to it's retail quality. I love tcheck pilsner beer having honey back-tastes and would really like to succeed in this batch.

Since I might be out of ways to carbonate my alcohol-less beer, I will withdraw it, unless one of you guys have a solution for rescuing it?

Cheers,


Elliot
 
There has to be alcohol in it based on the pictures you posted. Measure it with your hydrometer and you’ll see the evidence of that. Homebrew is delicious and hides the alcohol bite very nicely with the fresh hop flavor and maltiness. If your goal is to bump up the ABV and thin out a beer then store bought honey is fine. If you want a honey flavor in your beer then you’ll be better off getting honey from a local apiary.

To carbonate without drops, sanitize a food safe bucket, boil 3/1 parts (volume) of sugar (sugar is the 1 part) and water for a couple minutes, let it cool and then dump it in the bucket. Syphon your beer into the bucket so that it swirls as it goes in, naturally mixing the syrup into the beer. Then syphon the beer from the bottling bucket into the bottles and cap. Use about 5 grams table sugar per liter/ 2 tablespoons per gallon.
 
hi AZCoolerBrewer,

I have indeed seen some brewers diluting some sugar in water for carbonating and making a kind of syrup out of it, but wasn't really sure about the results, thanks for the DIY tip! I will take the gravity measurements based on the still water from the tap used this weekend when I found time. Hopefully, there is several apiaries in my area but it's already winter here, but they surely have still some stock available!

Will upload the gravity results picture of my first brew but as mentioned previously I should leave probably for several more weeks fermenting it so it won't be much optimal. We have also times to time some marple syrup production here too, so I have also checked how to brew beer based with this specific sugar, I really want avoiding dextrose and corn industrial sugar for my brew. As explained previsously, I haven't added sugar before the primary fermentation, only some dilueted brown candy sugar during the second week in the hope to boost a bit the process.

I will then bottle the beer anyway just in the case that with the carbonation it turns out good, in any cases I have enough sanitizer for next upcoming batch.

Cheers,

Elliot

(still wonder how the monks can tripple fermentaded some abbaye beers -just discovering the yeast science. I should request to make a holiday traineeship there) edit: I know that some micro-breweries labs are offering also workshops but still not the same than monks crafted beers from Germany.
 
Last edited:
AZCoolerBrewer said:
Syphon your beer into the bucket so that it swirls as it goes in, naturally mixing the syrup into the beer. Then syphon the beer from the bottling bucket into the bottles and cap. Use about 5 grams table sugar per liter/ 2 tablespoons per gallon.
Click to expand...

The Northern Brewer calculator shows 2 oz (by weight) of table sugar per gallon gives 2.87 volumes [Edit: This should be 1 oz per gallon, or about 2 Tbsp per gallon. Typo, I guess - sorry], assuming a temperature of 70F. (I've measured several times and find about 1 weight oz = 1 volume oz.) That's pretty high carbonation. For 2.5 volumes it shows 0.82 oz per gallon - I use that for most of my beer. Be sure to use your best estimate of volume to go to the priming bucket - not what was in the fermenter.

If you will be using this method in the future, you'll probably find it convenient to drill a hole in the priming bucket and use a spigot, and a bottling wand. It makes the transfer to the bottles easier.
 
Last edited:
ncbrewer said:
The Northern Brewer calculator shows 2 oz (by weight) of table sugar per gallon gives 2.87 volumes, assuming a temperature of 70F. (I've measured several times and find about 1 weight oz = 1 volume oz.) That's pretty high carbonation. For 2.5 volumes it shows 0.82 oz per gallon - I use that for most of my beer. Be sure to use your best estimate of volume to go to the priming bucket - not what was in the fermenter.

If you will be using this method in the future, you'll probably find it convenient to drill a hole in the priming bucket and use a spigot, and a bottling wand. It makes the transfer to the bottles easier.
Click to expand...

Two tablespoons is a little less than an ounce of sugar, so our values match. I did double check my metric value though and feel like 6 grams per liter is more appropriate than 5.
 
hi,

Great, thanks for the details. I have taken the measurements of the graivity with my desimeter and had the following results:

Water from the tap: 102
Brew in the vessel: 110

Means that it is not as alcohol less that I thought.

I have tasted it and it is already a bit fisy, probably due to the dilueted brown sugar added during the second week.

Will then have to take in consideration and adapt accordingly the amount of sugar for the carbonation in the hope that the bottles won't explode.


Elliot
 
Last edited:
At lot of beer is finished with an FG of 1.010. Keep in mind that water is 1.000, so if you measured 1.002 then that is how far off you hydrometer is, so you always subtract .002 from your readings with that hydrometer. Your actual FG in this case is 1.008. Some people use domino dots sugar cubes to prime their beer. One dot per bottle is about 2.4 volumes of carbonation. Domino dots are smaller than regular sugar cubes. I haven’t tried it but I think it would work pretty good.
 
ElliotCH said:
I have tasted it and it is already a bit fisy, probably due to the dilueted brown sugar added during the second week.

Will then have to take in consideration and adapt accordingly the amount of sugar for the carbonation in the hope that the bottles won't explode.
Click to expand...

Maybe you added some sugar that hadn't fermented out at bottling time? If so, this could cause bottle bombs as you mentioned. Since there is some concern, store and handle these bottles very carefully. Use a bin for storage, and cover with something that will protect the surroundings. Use gloves and goggles when handling. Use caution even when opening - I've seen accounts of bottles exploding when being opened.
 
Hi!


I have decided to keep ithe brew an extra week in the vessel because I need to find a camping cooking gas stove to complete my material and make the next batch properly since I have also some hops and special yeast nutriments this time.

Thanks NCBrewer for the warning regarding the risks of the bottles explosion and how securing them.
I will only bottle about a half gallon.

AZCoolerBrewer, your clarifications regarding the reading of the densimeter/hydrometer values are much appreciated.
Will be able to make it properly in the best practice with my next brew.

For the next brew, I'll try to hermetically sealed the vessel and will leave it alone for three weeks, I was a bit also exited about the first brew and have maybe too much aired it without probably respecting the best practice by adding diueted sugar after the second week.


Merry Christmas you all!

Elliot
 
Hi ncbrewer!

Do you mean the "Opinions on Extract Brewing"?
I am figuring out the best recipe for my upcoming batch,
The first brew has turned yellowish and clear so I'll be ready bottling some of it this weekend.

My other worries are about the malt extract and sugar and priming the first brew:

Should I mix the Blond malt extract with white sugar to boost the alcool level up?
(I am affraid it will stress the yeast but I want to have a not as much biter taste that I had with the first batch)

Regarding the priming, I think that the addition of dilueted brown sugar has kind of killed the yeast due to the sulfure smell,
I think about extending a bit the fermentation by adding some extra yeast and leave it an additional week to finish the remaining sugars.
How would that go if I do so? I am a bit suspicious that it will blow up the bottles during the second fermentation.

Is there a way that I can cut a bit the biter taste of the first brew?


Cheers.

Elliot
 
Last edited:
See my comments within your quoted post below:
ElliotCH said:
Hi ncbrewer!

Do you mean the "Opinions on Extract Brewing"?
>> I was pointing out my error in post #26. It showed the wrong amount of sugar originally. The correction is now in the post as an edit.
I am figuring out the best recipe for my upcoming batch,
The first brew has turned yellowish and clear so I'll be ready bottling some of it this weekend.

My other worries are about the malt extract and sugar and priming the first brew:

Should I mix the Blond malt extract with white sugar to boost the alcool level up?
(I am affraid it will stress the yeast but I want to have a not as much biter taste that I had with the first batch)
>> Sugar is sometimes added to increase the alcohol - normally keep it to no more than 15% of the fermentables if you're doing it just for that purpose. But I'd advise not adding sugar until you've done several batches without. Then you can see the effect of adding sugar. It tends to lighten the flavor. When I've added sugar (table sugar), I added at flameout and stirred well - then let it stand covered for 10 minutes to pasteurize.

Regarding the priming, I think that the addition of dilueted brown sugar has kind of killed the yeast due to the sulfure smell,
I think about extending a bit the fermentation by adding some extra yeast and leave it an additional week to finish the remaining sugars.
How would that go if I do so? I am a bit suspicious that it will blow up the bottles during the second fermentation.
>> If you've already added the needed sugar to the bottles, I wouldn't add more. As you mentioned, you could get bottle bombs. How long has it been bottled? I'd give it 3 weeks in bottles before getting worried about not carbonating. The sulfur smell shouldn't hurt the yeast. (Note: Bottle bombs are bad. You don't want them.)

Is there a way that I can cut a bit the biter taste of the first brew?
>> Reduce the amount of boiling hops. If it's the same recipe as the first brew, just reduce by the percentage that you think you would like. You can figure the IBUs to quantify it. See this website: http://realbeer.com/hops/research.html. There are other formulas - all are just best estimates.


Cheers.

Elliot
Click to expand...
 
Hi Elliot
Fairly new to the forum myself but have been brewing for lots of years.
I think maybe your brew is fermenting but you don't see evidence of it without liquid in the bubbler.
You just need to put a couple of teaspoons of water in and maybe a quarter of a Camden tablet to get the gas escaping through the bubbler so you can follow the progress.
It may have fermented out OK but it's always good to have the liquid in the airlock as a trap to stop any wild yeast or nasties.
I guess vodka will do the trick but at the very least a drop of water.
It gets cold here in the UK lake District but most lager brews will eventually Ferment out given time.
Good luck with your brew and don't be disheartened if it doesn't turn out like Carlesberg or Grolch!
 
I do a lot of test brews in 5 litre water bottles.
Just pierce the blue top and push your airlock in.
Remember, it's just sugar malt and hops.
You can even use the water in the bottle too!!!
 
ElliotCH said:
Hi!

I have started with a 30L vessel and a Cooper Pilsner malt extract for 20L.

The malt extract has been diluted and heated up to 70C and cooled down to 22C before adding the yeast.
The yeast used was the one furnished with and has been just spread over the top without shaking or stirring.
No sugar and brewing enhancer has been added to the brew.

It is stored in a celar where the temperature varies between 5C and 13C.

I noticed that there is some activity going on but the bubbler don't seems to work as expected.

Please check the following pictures and let me know what you think

https://ibb.co/VThn43J
https://ibb.co/Q8f5R9f
https://ibb.co/55TvYFM

Cheers.

(the uploader won't take them since they are too large)
Click to expand...

i don't know if someone else covered this.....But you did boil it with hops right? sounds like you just pasteurized it, with no hops addition...
 
hi Bracconiere!

For the first batch I just have used the Cooper's pilsner kit without any sugars and hops.
My main goal was to get the proper brewing material, appropriate location and get the best practices skills.
I have already bottled just about 5L and will start over with the good sides ingredients.

For my upcoming batch that I will brew during this week, I have got some blond malt extract and hops with a 6.5L pot to boil all that in a proper way. I also have got special lager yeast and nutriments to balance the bitterness.

Thanks for your remark, it seems indeed that I had just pasteurized the concentrate lol.

Cheers,
Elliot
 
hi! Just a little question since I have bottled a few litters of the first batch.
I have read in some other topics that the Cooper's lagers should stand 12 weeks in bottle before drinking, is that also the case for pilsner beer? I thought it was just two-three weeks of carbonation.
 

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