Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

[dilbone]

I have made JAOM the past couple of summers for the holidays, but not this summer. The batches have been so cloyingly sweet it's not so good to me. Some folks like it, most think it's way too sweet like me. First batch I went by the recipe. If I remember correctly OG was around 1.125 and finished in the mid 1.020s...

The next couple of batches I cut the honey back each time expecting it to be much better, but the yeast crapped out early and left me close to 1.020 FG again. I gave up. I've actually been working on some frozen juice concentrate wines the past several months in 1 gallon test batches and baker's yeast. It seems the bakers yeast the last few batches has been a pretty predictable .090 gravity drop. Maybe I'll give the mead another go and make sure I don't start above 1.100

 

[bernardsmith]

You don't treat JAOM as a novelty mead? Was it ever supposed to be viewed as a serious wine? The whole thing is made counter-intuitively. If you routinely make wines and mead (or brew beers) why would you make a JAOM? You have as much control over the process as you do if you are in a car being driven at night with no lights and no brakes and you are sitting in the back seat with the one behind the wheel, legally blind and the one whose foot is on the gas pedal sitting in the passenger seat in the middle of a snow storm with no working wipers.

 

[Miraculix]

You don't treat JAOM as a novelty mead? Was it ever supposed to be viewed as a serious wine? The whole thing is made counter-intuitively. If you routinely make wines and mead (or brew beers) why would you make a JAOM? You have as much control over the process as you do if you are in a car being driven at night with no lights and no brakes and you are sitting in the back seat with the one behind the wheel, legally blind and the one whose foot is on the gas pedal sitting in the passenger seat in the middle of a snow storm with no working wipers.

But it sure is fun

 

[dilbone]

You don't treat JAOM as a novelty mead? Was it ever supposed to be viewed as a serious wine? The whole thing is made counter-intuitively. If you routinely make wines and mead (or brew beers) why would you make a JAOM? You have as much control over the process as you do if you are in a car being driven at night with no lights and no brakes and you are sitting in the back seat with the one behind the wheel, legally blind and the one whose foot is on the gas pedal sitting in the passenger seat in the middle of a snow storm with no working wipers.

I'm not sure who is treating it as something other than a novelty mead or who you are referring to, but both meads and wines are novelty to me. My beers are good...my wines/meads are fun experiments that happen to taste decent and cost about as much money and time as what making kool-aid requires.

 

[Sebass]

I just did this with one mod. It zested peel of the orange, thew away white stuff to get rid off bitterness and cut orange into smaller peaces which went inside. Basically just got rid off white stuff. Poured some black tea inside as well.

OG is at 1.134 so abv around 17%

 

[rlmiller10]

I just did this with one mod. It zested peel of the orange, thew away white stuff to get rid off bitterness and cut orange into smaller peaces which went inside. Basically just got rid off white stuff. Poured some black tea inside as well.

OG is at 1.134 so abv around 17%

Please let us know how that comes out? I suspect it will be very sweet as I have only been able to get the bread yeast up to about 11% (and usually closer to 8%) before they peter out.

 

[Sebass]

Please let us know how that comes out? I suspect it will be very sweet as I have only been able to get the bread yeast up to about 11% (and usually closer to 8%) before they peter out.

Sure thing but im using Montrachet yeast, fruit wine yeast.

 

[dilbone]

A finish of 1.004 might be just right for this if it does go all the way to 17%...If I could get one to finish in the 1.010 +/- I'd be happy...just not 1.020 and above

 

[Miraculix]

ok ok FINE

... I´m gonna brew this!

 

[Sebass]

Cool. We'll see how it goes. I'm not really shooting for any abv. If it's sweet, whatever it come out, ill be happy.

 

[Miraculix]

double post

 

[Miraculix]

Aaand it is bubbling! I used the well known German yeast brand "ja!". It is the cheapest one can buy Otherwise, 100% true to the original recipe.

 

[rlmiller10]

Sure thing but im using Montrachet yeast, fruit wine yeast.

than you have broken a cardinal rule of Joe's. But yes, that should indeed let you push up the alcohol.

 

[amber-ale]

JaOM recipe was designed to mimic what ancient people did (and had to work with). It is also a simple way for beginners to start or for people who cannot get exotic wine/ale yeasts.
If it is too sweet, add more water/less honey or use a wine yeast.
You can remove any sulfates/oils from your raisins by rinsing them with warm water until the oils are gone. Say 4 times.
It should be much tastier after it has aged 3 months

 

[Sebass]

than you have broken a cardinal rule of Joe's. But yes, that should indeed let you push up the alcohol.

I'm not really going for high alcohol abv. I would prefer it finishes sweet. I just wanted quality yeast and was worried bread yeast will stall or be inconsistent and produce like 8% so i went with Montrachet yeast. It says it has up to 13% abv so if i aimed at 17% with 3.5 lbs of honey, maybe it will finish sweet. I would prefer it does NOT turn out dry with 17% abv ... lol

 

[LTBrewer]

It might not even ferment that thick of sugar. Up to 13% means under perfect conditions. If it keeps fermenting, it will probably take a few months to get there. Anything over 12-13% starts to hamper yeast function. I think a better method for what you were trying to accomplish would be to ferment dry, sorbate, and back sweeten a 2-3 tablespoons sugar per gallon. That would be sweet to me, but much less sweeter than what is marketed commercially as "mead". Some of what I have tried would be more accurately described as honey alcohol syrup . As far as the ancients, they would have cultured a proper wine yeast as that's what they did. Just like beer. I don't have any experience with using bread yeast for alcohol fermentation other than one experiment I did with cider over 30 years ago. I think it only fermented to about 5% and stopped. That was before the internet and about 95% of the books that are out there now. If bread yeast ferments, the next problem is will it floc, which is another reason actual beer and wine yeast strains have been selected. Plenty of people have made this orange wine though, and if it ferments somewhat reliably and falls out with whatever strain/brand they are using, it sounds like a cheap way to go. One of my neighbors gave me a bottle of his prized "mead". Tasted like oaked horridness. I've read that straight mead takes a long time to mellow out. The higher the alcohol, the longer it will take. I gave him back a bottle of 3 yr old plum apple wine that actually tastes like fruit and doesn't take the enamel off your teeth.

 

[Maylar]

I've had bread yeast take a JAOM to 15%. Start 1.127 finish 1.012.

 

[Miraculix]

I've had bread yeast take a JAOM to 15%. Start 1.127 finish 1.012.

I now realise, that I have not taken og readings. It is bubbling away now since weeks, so I guess I'm going to have something with at least 15% abv at the end as well.

 

[Dan O]

I have a question that I hope someone will be able to answer. I started a 1 gallon batch of JAOM a week ago. The recipe says don't touch, don't degas, don't add nutrients. Is there any real concern about the oranges not staying wet? I have always read that if you have fruit in primary, then you should give it a little swirl once a day just to keep the fruit wet. Is this still the case or am I really just supposed to leave it be & hope it doesn't mold? Thank you in advance, for anyone willing to take the time to reply.

 

[Miraculix]

I have a question that I hope someone will be able to answer. I started a 1 gallon batch of JAOM a week ago. The recipe says don't touch, don't degas, don't add nutrients. Is there any real concern about the oranges not staying wet? I have always read that if you have fruit in primary, then you should give it a little swirl once a day just to keep the fruit wet. Is this still the case or am I really just supposed to leave it be & hope it doesn't mold? Thank you in advance, for anyone willing to take the time to reply.

You should have it in an air tight carboy and there shouldn't be any oxygen and without any oxygen there won't be any mold.

 

[Dan O]

It is in a carboy with an airlock. I currently have 15 gallons under my belt, (& probably around my belly)but, this is my first time making a JAOM & wanted to be sure I wouldn't be throwing it away because of not keeping the fruit wet. Thank you.

 

[Miraculix]

Aaand it is bubbling! I used the well known German yeast brand "ja!". It is the cheapest one can buy Otherwise, 100% true to the original recipe.

Brought it from the attic to the living room, from 14-16 degrees c to 21c. The yeast fell dormant and it started to clear in the cool attic but now it started to go on again, also all cloudy again. Interesting brew, now bubbling for over a month. I'm curious when it will finish. It smells surprisingly fruity out of the airlock.

 

[Miraculix]

Brought it from the attic to the living room, from 14-16 degrees c to 21c. The yeast fell dormant and it started to clear in the cool attic but now it started to go on again, also all cloudy again. Interesting brew, now bubbling for over a month. I'm curious when it will finish. It smells surprisingly fruity out of the airlock.

I think it's bottling time soon!

 

[Maylar]

That's what my first one looked like at 30 days (my avitar). One that I have going now seems to have stopped fermenting. It's been sitting at about 67 degrees so I added a heating pad to bring it up to 77. Let's hope that works, else I'll be reaching for some 71B.

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

I want to make this, but I need some help. When the recipe says "dissolve honey in some warm water" how much water?

 

[Dan O]

1/2 gallon should be enough. Shake the bejesus out of it, then shake it some more. When you think your done, shake it for another 2 minutes., then add the rest of your ingredients, water to 1 gallon, then your yeast. Just make sure your must temperature is low enough BEFORE you add your yeast so you don't kill the yeast when you add them.

 

[ArizonaGoalie]

1/2 gallon should be enough. Shake the bejesus out of it, then shake it some more. When you think your done, shake it for another 2 minutes., then add the rest of your ingredients, water to 1 gallon, then your yeast. Just make sure your must temperature is low enough BEFORE you add your yeast so you don't kill the yeast when you add them.

Thank you sir. Made this last night. It's rolling along today.

Another question for those who have made this. When it's all done, is it possible to get all the oranges out of a 1 gallon jug to reuse it, or have you sacrificed a fermenter to the mead gods?

 

[Dan O]

Thank you sir. Made this last night. It's rolling along today.

Another question for those who have made this. When it's all done, is it possible to get all the oranges out of a 1 gallon jug to reuse it, or have you sacrificed a fermenter to the mead gods?

It's totally possible to get the oranges out, but, you'll have to work for it. Just hard enough to work up a thirst....hmmm.
Maybe for some mead?

 

[Miraculix]

Bottled it today, bit must have done something wrong..... as it is already really drinkable! Having a glass right now. I bet it will be better in one or two years, but it is not rucket fuelly at all. A little bit alcohol hotness, but not much.

I guess the fact that fermentation temperature were low for the first 6 weeks, around 14-15°C, helped a lot. It was a slow ferment, but the result is promising. Tastes a little bit like orange juice and root beer. The flavours will meld a bit I hope....

It is quite sweet though.... fg is about 1.016... a bit high for my liking.

Who else tried the oranges!? They are not as bad as one might guess

.....but they are veeeery alcoholic!

 

[BadKarma]

I've made this many times over the years. I try anew recipe and keep coming back to this one. It's like Lays Potato Chips, can't have just one!!!