It's early yet but I'm very disappointed with this latest HB. Talk me off the ledge!!

[BongoYodeler]

This was supposed to be a New West Coast Style IPA.
Well damn, this is most disappointing. I tasted a hydrometer sample of this beer directly from the fermenter a few days ago, just prior to dry hopping. Both the aroma and flavor were excellent at that point in time. I then pressure transferred the beer from my fermenter to a dry hop keg, and used a hop bong to dry hop in the low to mid 50's. I stuck the dry hop keg in my keezer, set at 37°F , for around 3 days and roused the hops a few times during that time. Yesterday I transferred to a serving keg and this afternoon pulled a sample to check the flavor after dry hopping. REALLY REALLY grassy. Trying to figure out if it's the dry hops, my process, or hopefully nothing and that some time will help.

Hopping schedule:
Boil @ 20 minute 1:1 Citra:Bru-1 T90 for ~22ibu's

Whirlpool 170°F 30 minutes
4oz Citra hop hash
1oz Bru-1 T90

Dry hop #1 - 20g Bru-1 Spectrum hop oil added to the fermenter half way through fermentation.

Dry hop #2 - 3.5oz Citra T90
1.5oz Bru-1 T90


The T90 hops are both from 2024: Citra and Bru-1, YVH vacuum sealed and in my freezer from the day they arrived until I opened them to measure out for this recipe. They smell fine. I promptly vacuum sealed and froze the unused portion, and also each hop addition until brew day / dry hop day.

All equipment, including hoses and QD's, etc. went through my normal Oxiclean wash and hot rinse, and everything was sanitized with StarSan solution.

All transfers were done under pressure to fermentation purged kegs using EvaBarrier tubing. The only time this beer saw oxygen was when I added the Spectrum hop oil during mid fermentation. After that rigorous fermentation continued for at least 48hrs which should have pushed out any oxygen through the two kegs and into a blowoff container, (right?).

I followed this same dry hop procedure (minus the hop oil addition) on an ipa that I brewed and kegged in January, and it's still tasting hoppy and quite fresh.

That leads me to think there's something funky with one or both T90 hops that only shows itself in the dry hop.
Or....and I'm hoping here...it'll be fine in two or three weeks. But man, this tasted so good before dh, and tastes so bad after dh.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

My guess is the Bru1 hop oil. I hope it mellows for you, the sample looked great.

 

[Tony B]

I don’t think grassy would come from any oxidation or O2 exposure. I wonder if you either just pulled an odd sample or maybe it just needs another day or two.

 

[BongoYodeler]

My guess is the Bru1 hop oil. I hope it mellows for you, the sample looked great.
View attachment 871940

Thanks Merry. From my understanding the hop oil can give a grassy taste if used as a late dry hop, but if used earlier, they mention prior to the end of fermentation, it should bring more fruity character. And in fact the beer tasted great after the hop oil was added but before dry hopping with T90.

This snippet from YVH website confirms it should be fruity when added during fermentation, and grassy when added much later:


after the hop oil was added late in fermentation

 

[day_trippr]

I agree, "grassy" is simply not associated with oxidation, something else is going on, and one cannot ignore @Hoppy2bmerry's point that "grassy" is literally a character of the Bru1 dosing. The other potential issue is pulling a sample loaded with hop particulates...

 

[BongoYodeler]

I don’t think grassy would come from any oxidation or O2 exposure. I wonder if you either just pulled an odd sample or maybe it just needs another day or two.

Thanks Tony B. that's my gut feeling as well. Especially since it tasted great one evening and not so good three days later. Definitely wouldn't taste oxidized that fast. The only difference being the T90 dry hop.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I agree, "grassy" is simply not associated with oxidation, something else is going on, and one cannot ignore @Hoppy2bmerry's point that "grassy" is literally a character of the Bru1 dosing. The other potential issue is pulling a sample loaded with hop particulates...

Yeah, definitely not ignoring it, I'm just hoping it's the latter, even though the transfer to the serving keg was through a CBDS floating dip tube. I guess time will tell. I was just amazed, (and at the same time bummed out) that the flavor could be so good after the Bru-1 hop oil, and so bad after a relatively small T90 dry hop.

 

[dmtaylor]

Probably just needs another few days for the hop particles to settle out. Was this for 5-6 gallons? Personally I'd consider NOT adding 5 oz more dry hops and oil if the beer already tasted excellent before dry hopping, or reduce it to just an ounce or two (for 5-6 gallons). Might be just excessive hops in there.

 

[mashdar]

Do you use a purged hop bong?

Maybe grassy was there before, but loss of other character revealed it?

Doesn't seem likely, but throwing spaghetti.

 

[MaxStout]

Could it be due to polyphenols from the hops? I know that can cause astringency and other off-flavors, but I've heard polyphenols can sometimes contribute grassiness. Does the beer have chill haze?

 

[Snuffy]

I think you've just hit a hop combination that takes a minute to play well together. This could be that one time when a minor mellowing of hop character is a good thing. The only time I've ever used hop shots was with a Pliny clone. That had so many hop adds that it was hard to tell individual hops apart. It was all flavor overlap and that turned out to be the magic sauce. Early samples tasted like pine sap and lawn clippings. I was pretty sure it was going to be 50 bucks worth of perpetual yuck faces. Took about 3 weeks to get awesome. Not to worry.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Probably just needs another few days for the hop particles to settle out. Was this for 5-6 gallons? Personally I'd consider NOT adding 5 oz more dry hops and oil if the beer already tasted excellent before dry hopping, or reduce it to just an ounce or two (for 5-6 gallons). Might be just excessive hops in there.

I hope so.
This was a 5 gallon batch that I racked around 4.8 gallons into the dry hop keg to allow for hop pellet absorption.

The thought crossed my mind about ditching the 5oz. dry hop after tasting the post-fermentation sample, but I went ahead with it anyway. Believe me, I'm now questioning the wisdom in doing what I did.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Do you use a purged hop bong?

Maybe grassy was there before, but loss of other character revealed it?

Doesn't seem likely, but throwing spaghetti.

Yes, I CO2-purged the hop bong, several times..
If the grassy flavor was there prior to the final dry hop it was well hidden beneath an excellent tropical pineapple flavor that's now missing.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Could it be due to polyphenols from the hops? I know that can cause astringency and other off-flavors, but I've heard polyphenols can sometimes contribute grassiness. Does the beer have chill haze?

The beer now doesn't look much like the hydrometer sample. Far less hazy now. Doesn't appear as bright, but that could be due to different lighting.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I think you've just hit a hop combination that takes a minute to play well together. This could be that one time when a minor mellowing of hop character is a good thing. The only time I've ever used hop shots was with a Pliny clone. That had so many hop adds that it was hard to tell individual hops apart. It was all flavor overlap and that turned out to be the magic sauce. Early samples tasted like pine sap and lawn clippings. I was pretty sure it was going to be 50 bucks worth of perpetual yuck faces. Took about 3 weeks to get awesome. Not to worry.

That would be awesome, I hope you're right. Thanks.

 

[MaxStout]

Give it some time, Bongo, and keep us apprised. I'm with @Snuffy. I'll betcha it'll turn around in a few weeks.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I'll provide updates over the next couple weeks or so.
So, I just poured a 4 oz sample and it *might* have a little less grassiness, and a little more tropical/pineapple flavor. Maybe.

Also, I've decided not to fine this beer, and to just set-and-forget at 12psi.

 

[BongoYodeler]

It's now 12 days since this was kegged and it's tasting quite a bit better. More of the Bru-1 pineapple flavor is coming through, along with a little of what I initially felt was grassiness. But I'm now thinking grassiness wasn't the correct descriptor, maybe more like unripe honeydew. It'll be interesting to see how much more this one changes over time.

 

[redrocker652002]

I have found that most of my beers, ale's of some sorts, get better and clear up within a week or two of kegging. My wife always says the same thing, "you just put it in the keg, and you always say the same thing, it is better after about a week". LOL. So, with that said, I say leave it for another week or so. I have a pale in the keg now that has improved greatly and cleared up really well after about 2 week.

 

[Willy]

Hope it resurrects into a perfect brew.

Had it happen before... What is this? To omg , there it is!!! Yes!!! ... Two/Three weeks later.

Get back from the ledge. Ha.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Hope it resurrects into a perfect brew.

Had it happen before... What is this? To omg , there it is!!! Yes!!! ... Two/Three weeks later.

Get back from the ledge. Ha.

Yeah, it’s definitely drinkable now, and if the brewing gods are with me it’ll hopefully improve even more. In all honesty I should’ve known better than to panic so quickly.

 

[firerat]

Yeah, it’s definitely drinkable now, and if the brewing gods are with me it’ll hopefully improve even more. In all honesty I should’ve known better than to panic so quickly.

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

I think you will be fine, time has been my experience that these things work themselves out..I bet it will be lovely

 

[BongoYodeler]

I think you will be fine, time has been my experience that these things work themselves out..I bet it will be lovely

Thanks. Yes, it’s getting better every day.

 

[MaxStout]

Yeah, it’s definitely drinkable now, and if the brewing gods are with me it’ll hopefully improve even more. In all honesty I should’ve known better than to panic so quickly.

I get that. It's the perfectionist drive in many of us.

Early in my brewing experience I had a couple failed batches in a row--drain pours. I was bummed, to say the least. After that I worked hard on my process, and looked at where I went wrong.

But every now and then I would get a hydro sample that didn't taste quite right or a weird smell from fermentation, or whatever. I'd think, "oh crap, this won't end well!" It did end well, and I'd have a good batch of beer.

Yours will end up fine.

 

[Bassman2003]

It's now 12 days since this was kegged and it's tasting quite a bit better. More of the Bru-1 pineapple flavor is coming through, along with a little of what I initially felt was grassiness. But I'm now thinking grassiness wasn't the correct descriptor, maybe more like unripe honeydew. It'll be interesting to see how much more this one changes over time.

View attachment 872748

It is quite hazy. Looks like a hefeweizen. Were you going for a clear WCIPA?

 

[BongoYodeler]

I get that. It's the perfectionist drive in many of us.

Early in my brewing experience I had a couple failed batches in a row--drain pours. I was bummed, to say the least. After that I worked hard on my process, and looked at where I went wrong.

But every now and then I would get a hydro sample that didn't taste quite right or a weird smell from fermentation, or whatever. I'd think, "oh crap, this won't end well!" It did end well, and I'd have a good batch of beer.

Yours will end up fine.

Thanks Max, your encouragement means a lot. I think I just got a little ahead of the process this time in not letting this newly brewed batch run its course. A bit embarrassing because I do know better. At any rate, I just poured a nightcap, and I'm really starting to enjoy this beer. Of course, I'm already thinking of improvements I can make next time I brew it.

 

[BongoYodeler]

It is quite hazy. Looks like a hefeweizen. Were you going for a clear WCIPA?

In my mind when I worked up the recipe, yes I was going for a new style wcipa, crisp and clear. But I think perhaps Bru-1 hops might not be the best hop for this, it seems to have other ideas. I've since decided not to add any gelatin or Biofine. I'm instead embracing the idea of just letting it be what it's going to be. I also found out, after the fact, that Bru-1 hops has been found to be pretty good at holding haze stability, so I won't fight it. If it stays hazy that's fine, if it eventually clears on its own that's fine too.

 

[Miraculix]

It's really good to see that other experienced guys fall into this trap as well and that it's not just me.

Glad it turned out well!

 

[BongoYodeler]

It's really good to see that other experienced guys fall into this trap as well and that it's not just me.

Glad it turned out well!

Yes indeed!!