Is there a gruit recipe for those who don't know the jargon?

[lacto]

Hello Folks,
Sorry for the wierd thread title, but, as an unitiated brewer (ie I don't know any of the jargon) I would like someone to clarify something for me.

In Buhners book he gives an "adapted" recipe for gruit (page 175). I'm a little confused because of the inclusion of crystal malt. My question is - is crystal malt a modern term for a modern ingredient or an old term? Did John Harrison know of crystal malt in the early fourteenth century? If not, then what would he have described? Perhaps this term is one of Buhners "adaptions"? So what would it have been called?

 

[lumpher]

Brewers have been using brown and black malt for many centuries, but what we think of as crystal or caramel malt didn't start being used until the late 1800's. Most likely in the 14th century they would have used brown malt. By saying "adapted recipes", he's giving himself a little wiggle room to be able to use modern ingredients. While we still use brown malt, he's able to give what is his best approximation of the old styles.

 

[lacto]

Thanks for the response lumpher.

This raises another question ... is brown or black malt barley that has gone through the "soak/sprout/dry/break/bathe in 65c" process? Is brown malt toasted barley (and black toasted barley even more!)? I can do this with wheat - but barley appears to be a little more complex ( but maybe not too complicated for the likes of me ... just time consuming.)

If toasting is correct then at what point in the process is the barley toasted (presumably in the oven ... or can I treat it like roasting coffee -in a dry pan on the stove top)?

Perhaps I should mention that I am not trying to make a "trophy" beer ... in fact I am trying to produce lightly alcoholic herbal infusions for medicinal purposes ... but ones that taste nice ... and give a little buzz!!

Brewers have been using brown and black malt for many centuries, but what we think of as crystal or caramel malt didn't start being used until the late 1800's. Most likely in the 14th century they would have used brown malt. By saying "adapted recipes", he's giving himself a little wiggle room to be able to use modern ingredients. While we still use brown malt, he's able to give what is his best approximation of the old style

 

[lumpher]

I'd just order the ingredients or even a kit from an online store. Easiest way to get everything, unless you have a real hankering to do it all from scratch. If so, there are some here who can help you with those steps. You can also find how-to videos online. I've never malted grain, and only toasted it a couple times. I find it's a lot quicker to malt and toast grain with a credit card and morebeer.com, northernbrewer.com, etc.

 

[dmtaylor]

the "soak/sprout/dry/break/bathe in 65c" process?

This sounds like a description of a dark crystal malt. But no, crystal malt did not exist in the 14th century. This appears to be an attempt by the modern author to approximate flavors of an old gruit ale by using a grain that can easily be steeped. Crystal malts are appropriate for steeping. Many other so-called base malts are too starchy and therefore must be mashed.

Is brown malt toasted barley (and black toasted barley even more!)? I can do this with wheat - but barley appears to be a little more complex ( but maybe not too complicated for the likes of me ... just time consuming.)

If toasting is correct then at what point in the process is the barley toasted (presumably in the oven ... or can I treat it like roasting coffee -in a dry pan on the stove top)?

Perhaps I should mention that I am not trying to make a "trophy" beer ... in fact I am trying to produce lightly alcoholic herbal infusions for medicinal purposes ... but ones that taste nice ... and give a little buzz!!

Deeply toasted barley is called "roasted barley" and is available from any homebrew shop. It is different from the roasted malts. Malted barley (or malted wheat, etc.) is different from the grain that has not been malted. Find out what ingredients you can buy from a local homebrewing source.

You can make brown malt by toasting base malt (such as Pils, Vienna, or Munich malt) in an oven until it smells nutty and appears lightly toasted, and when you cut into the kernels they are between gold and orange in color rather than white to off-white. But again, this malt should be mashed which is a special process, otherwise the result might be starchy which can lead to haze and potential off-flavors in the finished beverage. It doesn't sound like you are interested in the full mashing process. If you are, we can provide instructions. You might be better off purchasing "chocolate malt" or "black malt" from a local shop. These can be steeped without mashing. Basically as the malt is more deeply roasted to a black or near-black color, the starches are mostly destroyed leaving just flavors and ash behind, which can still be used effectively for making tasty beverages such as brown ales and lagers, stouts and porters, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

The OP lists his location as France, so brew ingredients may not be as widely available as in the U.S.

I'm not familiar with gruits and its ingredients, so I can't help you there. But malting then roasting your own (specialty) malts on small scale is very doable.

 

[AlexKay]

If you're new to recipe building, and want something simple that tastes good ... may I suggest a SMaSM (single malt and single mugwort)?

More seriously, use a grain bill that's 100% a single nicely kilned base malt: Vienna, or even a light Munich, or an English Pale (e.g., Maris Otter.) It will taste good, it's impossible to screw up the recipe, and there's arguably some authenticity getting back to a recipe which is just "malt, whatever we have at the farm."

Then herbs as it suits you.

 

[lacto]

Ah ... the plot thickens!
As a complete novice when it comes to most of the above mentioned ingredients (to which I thank all of you), I have read that I should only use 10-20% crystal malt in the brew ... but for a 4L test I only want to use around 650grams malt (in whatever form - although I have loads of dark amber malt from Pinta.it), herb (of my choice ie Artemisia), yeast (I only have a generic 'beer' yeast S-04 which seems to work very well) ... and water!

So, if I want to try MY version loosely based on Buhners gruit then all I need is Gale, Yarrow, and Ledum Palustre - all of which I have ready. Then, am I right in presuming that I can use all of the above plus the dark amber liquid malt - make tea - boiling half the herbs/then 'after boiling' soaking the other half of herbs - cool and add yeast - wait until completion - then bottle ... then drink. I do not prime the bottles because I prefer the drink to be bitter (my favourite being artemisia);

So ... sock it to me ... is this workable or a sad joke?

 

[dmtaylor]

Sounds like an acceptable plan. I personally would avoid wormwood unless used in a tiny amount like a gram or less.

 

[lacto]

Sounds like an acceptable plan. I personally would avoid wormwood unless used in a tiny amount like a gram or less.

Strange that ... I have read a number of reports warning the same regarding Artemesia - but perhaps I am, to quote Buhner, one of those "people with a tendancy toward gustatory sadomasochism, and tongue flagellation" I love the stuff! I've eagerly drunk 2 grams worth in 2 litres!! But I agree about being 'judisious' ... and, no, I do not have visions of green fairies!

 

[Miraculix]

Ah ... the plot thickens!
As a complete novice when it comes to most of the above mentioned ingredients (to which I thank all of you), I have read that I should only use 10-20% crystal malt in the brew ... but for a 4L test I only want to use around 650grams malt (in whatever form - although I have loads of dark amber malt from Pinta.it), herb (of my choice ie Artemisia), yeast (I only have a generic 'beer' yeast S-04 which seems to work very well) ... and water!

So, if I want to try MY version loosely based on Buhners gruit then all I need is Gale, Yarrow, and Ledum Palustre - all of which I have ready. Then, am I right in presuming that I can use all of the above plus the dark amber liquid malt - make tea - boiling half the herbs/then 'after boiling' soaking the other half of herbs - cool and add yeast - wait until completion - then bottle ... then drink. I do not prime the bottles because I prefer the drink to be bitter (my favourite being artemisia);

So ... sock it to me ... is this workable or a sad joke?

You're throwing things together that were not used together historically. Susan Verberg wrote exceptionally well defined papers about the topic gruit, including the historic recipes.

This one for example:
https://www.academia.edu/35704222/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Gruit

There's also the gruit beer thread here in the forum in which she was active. The initial information I provided at the beginning of the thread were falsified partially during the later comments so it's probably best to read it either fully or at least backwards.