Is there a consensus on the 'best' plastic carboys or fermenters?

[wasully]

And what would the qualifications be for 'best'?

It's time to do some shopping, and I'm looking for guidance.

If it makes a difference-I'm going to be primarily doing cider, not beer.

I'll also be leaving things to bulk age for months(with occasional racking for clarity and to get off the lees), so I'll be buying in multiples.

Thanks y'all!

 

[Jtk78]

Ask 6 brewers a question and get 8 different answers.....

That said, I like the Fermonsters and have 4 of them. Relatively inexpensive and easy for me to clean. Also come in a variety of sizes.

 

[BobBailey]

I agree on the Fermonsters and would recommend the ported ones.

 

[Maverick986]

I just got a Fermonster myself. From the research I did they appear to be the best bang for the buck. I have not yet used it, however am overall liking it, and hoping to put it to use this weekend.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

I never had an issue with my cheap plastic buckets I use stainless mostly now but still have 6 buckets that get used and for the $15 they cost me I cant complain 1 bit

 

[wasully]

I never had an issue with my cheap plastic buckets I use stainless mostly now but still have 6 buckets that get used and for the $15 they cost me I cant complain 1 bit

I'm concerned about oxygen permeability for long term bulk storage in buckets, and headspace.

Or else, yeah, I'd just go for the cheap bucket route.

 

[Jag75]

Check out the fast fermenter. Really cool. However I've been eyeballing the new fermentersaures

 

[bracconiere]

i use a 13 gal one of these...

https://www.curtec.com/en/products/drums/wide-neck-drums

just drill a hole in the lid for a bubbler and your set...$20 bucks at the feed store....

 

[VTX1300]

I used a fastferment for two years before I dropped it and broke the valve off. Easy to dump sediment so no transferring to a secondary. I now use a stainless steel brew bucket.

 

[Jag75]

Yeah I like the ease of dumping the collection ball making impossible for oxygen exposure . What year VTX do you have ?. I had a 2006 c . Loved it , rode it for years .

 

[mongoose33]

I started using the Bigmouth Bubblers from Northern Brewer. Had 5 at one point. They've had some issues with the lid staying down; hasn't been a problem for me except on one lid, and there's a workaround.

That said, if I had to do it again, I'd use the Fermonster. I have spigots on my BMBs (still have two of them for use when my conical is busy), and wouldn't go back to anything not having a spigot. You can get the Fermonster with them.

Buy two of them at Morebeer and shipping is free.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I use Fermonsters. I love them.

I think Big Mouth Bubblers have issues with the lid and the bubble texture. Not a big problem though, but I also don't like to buy from AB InBev.

 

[Wally martin]

I like my speidel.. Heavy duty easy to clean and has handles.. I'm new here what is AB InBev? Also I've used 5 gallon plastic water jugs from the grocery store for secondary..

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm new here what is AB InBev?

Anheuser-Busch InBev is the Mega Corp of beer. Besides Budweiser, Bud Lite, Busch, etc. macro brews, they have also bought up a lot of "craft" breweries and a couple large homebrew supply stores.
I'm not on a crusade. You decide whether that's something you want to support, but at least be informed.

Any PET plastic carboy is fine. Some are ported. Some have wide mouth. Some have threaded lids. Some have superfluous markings.
FYI the ported carboys with narrow mouth need a tool to install the spigot.

HDPE plastic (buckets, speidel, fast ferment brands, etc.) is significantly more oxygen-permeable than PET. Those are fine for short term, but may be a concern for longer aging.

Cheers

Edit: if you're looking at ported fermonsters, I highly recommend this spigot.

 

[wallyLOZ]

Another vote for Speidel. Heavy duty with sturdy handles. Have not had an issue with the spigot. Test with water and adjust as needed. It also comes with a solid cap for use in place of the spigot for long term storage.

 

[pbrennan10]

have speidels and a fastferment, much prefer speidels just due to shape, but no complaints about quality or cleaning.

 

[skw]

Here in rural southern Germany, home made cider is everywhere, "Most" was the drink of every farmer here (and they were all farmers) 100 years ago. After wooden barrels fell out of fashion, almost everyone uses Speidels here, they're ubiquitous.

It seems to me from the brochures that Speidel primarily targets the cider and wine market anyway, beer seems to be just an afterthought.

 

[RM-MN]

I'm concerned about oxygen permeability for long term bulk storage in buckets, and headspace.

Or else, yeah, I'd just go for the cheap bucket route.

How many years do you plan to store the cider in the fermenter? Oxygen permeability is still pretty low and for most applications it is not a problem. Neither is the head space as long as you keep the bucket closed and the airlock full.

 

[thehaze]

I have 5 Speidel fermenters and have no complaints. They are sturdy, with heavy duty handles, big mouth opening, for easy cleaning and dry hopping. The price is higher than your regular bucket, would probably be the biggest " flaw ".

 

[GPP33]

I’m partial to my fermonsters for a few reasons. Haven’t used any of the others ones, some have some of the features but I haven’t found any other one that has them all.

1) spigot so I can transfer without the use of a siphon.

2) clear so I can see when to stop transferring so I can get all of the beer without any of the trub/dry hop particles.

3) big opening and smooth sides so cleaning is a breeze.

4)compact package so I can fit two in my ferm chamber, bonus that they are cheap enough to be able to afford 2.

5) screw on cap. Why is this important? I swapped the spigot for a ball lock post and added a ball lock post to a blank cap. I can pressurize for cold crashing then use purged jumpers from my keg to drain the fermenter and exhaust the CO2 from the keg back up into the fermenter. I set it up and walk away while it drains without contacting the atmosphere. Bonus that the yeast stays in a protected atmosphere so it can sit there until you pitch a new batch on it, wash and collect it or finally get around to dumping and cleaning it.

 

[RPh_Guy]

So the answer is no, there's no consensus

 

[Novacor]

Question for those who love their Fermonsters, I was looking at one at the LHBS and it felt like it was made out of a very flimsy plastic. Do you find that to be an issue?

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Question for those who love their Fermonsters, I was looking at one at the LHBS and it felt like it was made out of a very flimsy plastic. Do you find that to be an issue?

Nope; they work very well and I have not had any problems. I also have a tendency to pick them up by the rim under the lid, which I do not recommend. I put them in milk crates before filling. I have three now, and I like them a lot.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Question for those who love their Fermonsters, I was looking at one at the LHBS and it felt like it was made out of a very flimsy plastic. Do you find that to be an issue?

Carrying it can be somewhat difficult without straps.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermonstercarboy-carrier.html

I have 7 fermonsters now, but the one carrier is all I need since most are sitting there with sours or wine. The 1 gal and 3 gal are easy to carry.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

+1 on The Vintage shop Fermonster and Carboys. I have one Fermonster as well as a few of their 3 and 5 gallon carboys. Some have said they have had issues with removing the Fermonster lid. I've not had that experience yet but i have large hands. The fact that they are extremely light makes them so easy to clean and handle. I do use a carboy carrier for the Fermonster and empty milk crates to carry the 5 gallon units. I do this to avoid suck back in the air lock. I also love the fact that empty they can stand upside down and drain excess starsan.

 

[GPP33]

Question for those who love their Fermonsters, I was looking at one at the LHBS and it felt like it was made out of a very flimsy plastic. Do you find that to be an issue?

They are thin, but they really don’t need to be thick to do the job. Carry them in a milk crake or a strap system like the brew hauler.

If you get one you’ll want one of these to remove the lid. For $4.99 it’s actually a really nice tool that’ll come in handy for more than just removing caps, I don’t normally recommend Harbor Freight but this is a good tool.

https://m.harborfreight.com/2-pc-rubber-strap-wrench-set-69373.html

 

[MaxStout]

Buckets are fine for primary for a month or two, but since you plan to rack and then bulk-age, I would recommend racking into glass or stainless for the long-term. Oxygen will gradually seep through plastic over time.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would recommend using glass or stainless for the long-term. Oxygen will gradually seep through plastic over time.

How much oxygen seeps through the airlock?

 

[govner1]

I started w/ 3, 5,& 6 gal Better Bottles when I started brewing 6+ years ago. I still use the same ones with the exception of one that I damaged. I even have two 5 gal Better Bottles in their original boxes that I purchased as back ups and have not yet needed.
Easy to carry, clean, etc.

 

[MaxStout]

How much oxygen seeps through the airlock?

You're suggesting that plastic is ok for long-term aging? Not arguing, I just hear a lot of conventional wisdom to the contrary. If the "O2 permeability of plastic is a thing in long-term storage" belief is just another fallacy, that's good to know.

 

[S-Met]

Question for those who love their Fermonsters, I was looking at one at the LHBS and it felt like it was made out of a very flimsy plastic. Do you find that to be an issue?

I put them in milk crates before filling

This and/or straps. I think my hauler was less than 10 from more beer or Amazon and can easily be put on a full carboy without disturbing it too much.

If you get one you’ll want one of these to remove the lid. For $4.99 it’s actually a really nice tool that’ll come in handy for more than just removing caps, I don’t normally recommend Harbor Freight but this is a good tool.

https://m.harborfreight.com/2-pc-rubber-strap-wrench-set-69373.html

This. I had these for other reasons and has come in very handy. You don't need to crank the lid down tight, but it inevitably happens.

You're suggesting that plastic is ok for long-term aging? Not arguing, I just hear a lot of conventional wisdom to the contrary. If the "O2 permeability of plastic is a thing in long-term storage" belief is just another fallacy, that's good to know.

Pet bottles are used for long term beverage storage, just go down a drink isle in the store and see. Shelf life is greater than 1-2 years depending and I don't feel like there is a significant oxidation in many of the products. Using this as a comparison, I'm not sure that the fermenter or bucket (both of which are thicker than most bottles) will "seep" oxygen at a significant rate. I'm not sure that anyone has officially tested and believe that "oxygen seep" is a standard belief without scientific backing. Less than a year aging in plastic is not a concern of mine.

I would be more concerned with oxygen from head space. Keep it minimum, meaning top up with every transfer and the airlock full.

Edit for punctuation

 

[RPh_Guy]

You're suggesting that plastic is ok for long-term aging? Not arguing, I just hear a lot of conventional wisdom to the contrary. If the "O2 permeability of plastic is a thing in long-term storage" belief is just another fallacy, that's good to know.

I was simply suggesting that stainless & glass aren't impervious to oxygen because quite a bit can pass through an airlock.

In my opinion the actual difference between PET and something impermeable like glass or stainless is negligible when you factor in headspace and airlock oxygen transmission.

Several scientific sources suggest that HDPE is vastly more oxygen permeable than PET. They shouldn't really be lumped together when talking about oxygen permeability. Yet, as evidenced by this thread, many people use HDPE vessels for cider, so it's hard to argue.

Anecdotally I've seen numerous wine makers and sour beer brewers use/prefer PET, so I think it's acceptable for most purposes.
My flanders has been sitting in my Fermonster for 7+ months now with no hint of acetic acid, so I'd say it's not excessively oxygen permeable.
As s-met mentions, PET is super common to use for beverage packaging.

Another thing to think about is barrel aging. Lots of wine is barrel aged, right? Oak lets in some oxygen. Corks also let in a controlled amount. It allows the flavors to mature for aged wines.

OP was mainly concerned with cider. Any wine or cider should be sulfited during aging to protect it from oxygen.
Depending on the cider making process, the cider may or may not benefit from aging.
Something to think about.

Cheers

 

[GPP33]

This and/or straps. I think my hauler was less than 10 from more beer or Amazon and can easily be put on a full carboy without disturbing it too much.


This. I had these for other reasons and has come in very handy. You don't need to crank the lid down tight, but it inevitably happens.




Pet bottles are used for long term beverage storage, just go down a drink isle in the store and see. Shelf life is greater than 1-2 years depending and I don't feel like there is a significant oxidation in many of the products. Using this as a comparison, I'm not sure that the fermenter or bucket (both of which are thicker than most bottles) will "seep" oxygen at a significant rate. I'm not sure that anyone has officially tested and believe that "oxygen seep" is a standard belief without scientific backing. Less than a year aging in plastic is not a concern of mine.

I would be more concerned with oxygen from head space. Keep it minimum, meaning top up with every transfer and the airlock full.

Edit for punctuation

Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET or PETE) by itself has pretty good gas (especially oxygen) permeability. That means oxygen can pass through it. Why would it want to? All things liquid, solid and gas always want to move from areas of high concentration to areas of low concentration, it’s a process called diffusion. In the case of oxygen and PET (really any polymer) the gas will pass right through the physical barrier to reach that area of lower concentration. There’s plenty of science to back that up, it’s not just a home brewers old wives tale.

The beauty of PET is that there are several ways to decrease its permeability, unfortunately we don’t know which, if any, they use for any of these fermenters. What we do know though is that it’s a very slow process unless you have a pressure differential involved (even then it’s slow). I’d be willing to bet my next batch of beer that the O2 introduced during transfer to secondary is several orders of magnitude higher than what will diffuse through the walls of a fermenter. So basically, RDWHAHB and watch your beer/mead/wine age.

 

[Wayne1]

For cost and convenience, I feel the Spiedel are the way to go. Lots of mods from Jaybird/Norcal brewing solutions

 

[S-Met]

Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET or PETE) by itself has pretty good gas (especially oxygen) permeability.

Every study that I have read on this topic (probably less than 5-6 max over several years) is discussing gas permeability of film. Every study also stated that the permeability is inversely proportional to the thickness of the film. Gas permeability of film 0.008-0.013mm (8-13 micrometers thick) whereas the typical fermenters are 1.5-3mm thick (200-300 times thicker than the film).

Other notable mentions are that gasses typically follow the least resistant path. Though less predictable than electricity or liquid, they will diffuse through the airlock and lid before passing through the walls of the fermenter.

 

[GPP33]

Every study that I have read on this topic (probably less than 5-6 max over several years) is discussing gas permeability of film. Every study also stated that the permeability is inversely proportional to the thickness of the film. Gas permeability of film 0.008-0.013mm (8-13 micrometers thick) whereas the typical fermenters are 1.5-3mm thick (200-300 times thicker than the film).

Other notable mentions are that gasses typically follow the least resistant path. Though less predictable than electricity or liquid, they will diffuse through the airlock and lid before passing through the walls of the fermenter.

Both very good points, you do have a lot more surface area in the walls though. At the end of the day they aren’t screen doors letting all the air in, not worth worrying about.

 

[S-Met]

Both very good points, you do have a lot more surface area in the walls though. At the end of the day they aren’t screen doors letting all the air in, not worth worrying about.

Couldn't agree more. The gas exchanged through the walls of the fermenter walls are negligible. I am in no way qualified to tell you how long it will be safe for long term storage in a fermenter, but will assuringly state that less than 1 year is not a concern providing the head-space is minimal and the airlock is full. Also provided that the conditions (temp, humidity and atmospheric pressure) remains relatively stable.
1-2 years: probably safe provided the conditions above.
2 or more: hell, I think 6 months is a long time, I'd have bottled and wanted my fermenter back by now. They can continue to age in the bottle.

 

[Aleforge]

I got a big mouth for XMAS and the simple fact that my arm fits inside is amazing. That lid though... wth. I noticed my bubbler not well... bubbling. Then quickly realized the lid had started coming off. Now I have a weight on top of it. HOWEVER I am still super happy to have one. My response is pretty irrelevant I guess, but wanted to talk about the stupid BM lid (lol).

 

[wasully]

Thanks for all the replies.

How many years do you plan to store the cider in the fermenter? Oxygen permeability is still pretty low and for most applications it is not a problem. Neither is the head space as long as you keep the bucket closed and the airlock full.

3-12 months bulk aging.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for all the replies.



3-12 months bulk aging.

3 months would not be a problem at all. I'm not sure about the 12 months but can you transfer to another vessel without introducing more oxygen than would permeate the plastic bucket?