Is the 'best by' date killing the beer list concept?

[NorCalAngler]

I was reading this article (which is a great article if you have a few minutes) and this quote stood out to me: "It used to be that you'd go to a really nice restaurant and the wine selection is amazing, cocktails are fantastic, and then you've got two crappy beers to choose from."

While he uses the phrase "used to be," I think that's still true with few exceptions. That got me to thinking, what is preventing restaurants from offering a more extensive beer list? Is the current marketing push by macro lager sellers to reinforce "freshness" through their best by date permeating throughout the restaurant industry? Are they afraid to maintain a beer list because they won't turn inventory over fast enough according to the macro-lager 1-2 month freshness date? As we all know many beers will stay fresh for quite a while if packaged well. I'm not talking about Applebees here because I don't expect them to have a bottled beer selection, but nicer establishments ($20+ entree) could easily offer a selection of fine craft beer. Hopefully we see restaurants start to realize beer can be profitable and compliment their menu.

 

[Fletch78]

Maybe not in Roseville, but around here, every independent restaurant with a liquor license sells microbrews/craft beers.

 

[Fletch78]

I do like that article though, now I know what a Cask is.

 

[david_42]

Author lives in the wrong Vancouver.

 

[wildwest450]

I do like that article though, now I know what a Cask is.

The only thing better than knowing what a cask is, is drinking what comes out of one.

 

[Airborneguy]

Maybe not in Roseville, but around here, every independent restaurant with a liquor license sells microbrews/craft beers.

Same here. I can get craft beer in any of the good restaurants around here.

 

[NorCalAngler]

The question isn't necessarily whether you can get a craft beer, but a selection similar to a wine list. Most places will carry at least one or two craft beers on draft, but I'm talking about a special beer to go with a special meal. Maybe an imperial stout or double IPA, something along those lines. If your local restaurants carry high end craft brews by the bottle then you are very lucky. Roseville is right outside Sacramento so I'm not in the sticks and I haven't been to a nice restaurant around here that had a bottled craft beer selection.

 

[Airborneguy]

Well that definitely does narrow it down, but I can still pick from 3 different restaurants near me that have extensive bottle lists. One has about 60, the other over 100. You don't have anyplace?

 

[NorCalAngler]

There may be places that I just haven't been to yet, but the main higher end restaurants around me don't have beer bottle lists. Hopefully that changes in the near future with the Cicerone program and craft beer movement.

 

[Fletch78]

If you are talking about high-high end, like $30+ per plate and $60+ for wine, you can expect they'll never carry microbrew in any major capacity. A bottle of beer takes up the same amount of space as a bottle of wine. If the beer is $10 for a bottle, which is very high end, it's still dwarfed by the $60 the bottle of wine will fetch.

 

[wacko]

There may be places that I just haven't been to yet, but the main higher end restaurants around me don't have beer bottle lists. Hopefully that changes in the near future with the Cicerone program and craft beer movement.

You've seen this?
Best beer in your area

 

[Fletch78]

You've seen this?
Best beer in your area

 

[wacko]

2 more things i forgot.

1. Faultline is on that list NorCalAngler Check them out if you haven't. I tried them out in santa clara when I was down there and they had some decent beer for not being out of oregon

2. Best Date is theb best thing buttwiper can do to react to the craft brew movement. Look at that map I linked. Think the major breweries like that?

 

[doctorRobert]

Think of the demographics though. Think of who wine drinkers are, and who the beer drinkers are. Wine drinkers are typically wealthy. Wealthier people drink wine because other wealthy people drink it, it's healthier, it's classier. That's the culture of our country.

Go to Belgium England or Germany, you'll have a different answer.


Frankly I'm glad we live here, instead of an Italy or a England, where you'd have a choice of ONLY wine, or almost Only beer. At least we have a mix.

And to our benifit, inbev bought ahb, and a lot better imported beers will be served at these nicer restaurants. Good bye heineken.

 

[david58]

And to our benifit, inbev bought ahb, and a lot better imported beers will be served at these nicer restaurants. Good bye heineken.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but Inbev will only do what brings them the greatest profit. They don't care about putting better beers in restaurants, but rather selling the most of what makes the most money. Note that Bud was the only beer available at the World Cup soccer venues, and you are seeing a big push to sell Bud in the UK and Europe. Bud's effort to slowly improve their beers (gradually adding hops to Bud to try and raise the ibu to where it had taste) has been halted. Not a rant against the corporate giants, but just a statement of fact that Inbev will not improve the situation.

 

[doctorRobert]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but Inbev will only do what brings them the greatest profit. They don't care about putting better beers in restaurants, but rather selling the most of what makes the most money. Note that Bud was the only beer available at the World Cup soccer venues, and you are seeing a big push to sell Bud in the UK and Europe. Bud's effort to slowly improve their beers (gradually adding hops to Bud to try and raise the ibu to where it had taste) has been halted. Not a rant against the corporate giants, but just a statement of fact that Inbev will not improve the situation.

You're comparing the european & south african beer market to the US. Completely different. Fact is the younger european market was starting to become Bud drinkers (bud heavy, not bud light). Inbev bought bud because Bug was making huge strides in the european beer market.

If you noticed lately whats happening in the US, is that Stella, Becks and other inbev beers are popping up everywhere thanks to the distribution channels. Stella is becoming the default "nice" beer at upscale resteraunts. Which is an upgrade to what they had before.

At least I'm in boston, so I can always get a nice Vienna lager with my steak.

 

[carnevoodoo]

Why is a freshness date a bad thing? I check every bottle for a date code to see if I can find one. I want my beer to be as fresh as possible. Sure, some well packaged beer can be ok for up to 6 months, but I would rather not deal.

And I'll agree with whoever said that the higher end restaurants cater to the wine crowd. I know of places near me with decent bottle lists that have pulled back on their offerings because no matter how you look at it, we're a minority. Craft beer is still a minor part of the overall industry. Not a lot of people geek out over a good list when they're at a restaurant. Stock gets old and does not rotate. It happens.

 

[david58]

You're comparing the european & south african beer market to the US. Completely different. Fact is the younger european market was starting to become Bud drinkers (bud heavy, not bud light). Inbev bought bud because Bug was making huge strides in the european beer market.

If you noticed lately whats happening in the US, is that Stella, Becks and other inbev beers are popping up everywhere thanks to the distribution channels. Stella is becoming the default "nice" beer at upscale resteraunts. Which is an upgrade to what they had before.

At least I'm in boston, so I can always get a nice Vienna lager with my steak.

I just suppose I'd like to have seen Bud become a better beer (AHB was in fact slowly, behind the scenes, making changes to Bud to improve it - their rate of change was slow so the old time bud drinkers wouldnt notice the progression), and for our American beers to have improved, rather than have a flood of imports.

Don't know about Boston, but up here in the Pacific NW, I can usually depend on getting a good IPA with dinner. Though in Seattle next weekend I'm hitting an Irish pub for some stout and some football (soccer to some...).

 

[Mermaid]

I think it depends on the restaurant, and the demographic it is serving.

Went to this amazing restaurant last time I was in Chicagoland, called the Bavarian Lodge (in Lisle, IL).

Sort of no-frills interior with a great selection of German comfort food, and a beer list that boggles the mind.

Sadly, there ARE more restaurants that carry a wider wine selection than beer, but it could be that in some markets they just don't sell enough to warrant keeping bottles in storage and/or the kegs fresh.

I think it all depends on the area (and state) you live in. My sis lives in Geneva, IL - and while Geneva isn't the most happening place in the western suburbs there are at least a couple restaurants (and a decent bar) that have a great selection of beer on the menu right next to the wine list.

Oddly, where I live in MA it's a bit harder to find the same sort of selection on restaurant menus unless you're in one of the communities catering to college students and/or hipsters.

 

[Bashiba]

In place where its legal you might want to consider bringing your own and paying a Corkage fee, some high end restaurants do this for wine and will gladly do the same for beer as well.

 

[brad26]

The Ruby Tuesday near my place has a craft beer list. I think they have about 10 or 12 different brews.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I am drinking a bud heavy. Poured it into a cubs old style mug. I think the beer is about two years old. Nothing is wrong with it, despite the age. My father in law is a whisky guy,and I'm watching football at his place. He keeps the beer cool in his basement. My BIL swears its bad because its old. He's a bud light guy. So many are hoodwinked into the freshness BS.

 

[kcpaige89]

Where I used to live in Maine, I had almost the opposite experience. It was a small town(granted, a college town) that had 3 restaurants with bars. One was more like a cheap bar with some fried foods that college kids went to, but the other two clearly targeted the adults. One had at least 10/12 local Maine brews on tap, and another 15 micros in bottles. The meal specials always had a craft brew special to match. Their wine list, however, consisted of like 5 Mondavi brands, and a few imports. The other restaurant was a bit pricey, but had a better wine list, but still carried 4-5 micros in bottles and a few on draft. I think that place catered more towards the professors of the college and the more uppity people, but it wasn't overly wine dominated. Needless to say I went to the Beer restaurant a lot, and about half the people there drank local brews. The other half was PBR or Bud Light. The only place to get really decent wine was the liquor store, which was run by a craft brew enthusiast. He was a cool guy who ordered me some beer he didn't have room for on the shelves. He had at least 300 different beers from around the world, including at least 50 german and about 25 irish choices. He probably had about the same in wine. Maybe Maine is just a bit different in that local beer is really popular, or maybe it was that it was a college town with too many hippies and hipsters. This is gonna suck when I move to France in 2 weeks for work, because it is almost exclusively wine drinking. I mean, I love wine and it is definitely something I buy often, but beer is important too. Luckily I found a store to buy all sorts of home brewing equipment, and i'm bringing over some DME kits cause they only really have LME like coopers and muntons. Anyway, I'm sure you have at least a few places that serve decent beer, as the little 10,000 person town in the middle of nowhere Maine had a few.

 

[Hannable1975]

If you are talking about high-high end, like $30+ per plate and $60+ for wine, you can expect they'll never carry microbrew in any major capacity. A bottle of beer takes up the same amount of space as a bottle of wine. If the beer is $10 for a bottle, which is very high end, it's still dwarfed by the $60 the bottle of wine will fetch.

This is true. And folks with a dinner party will buy a bottle for the table, where as in general a round of micros is not as likely.

I went to a restaurant at the coast here in NC where they had suggest beers with several dishes - though half of them were for DFH 60 minute.. I just got a feeling it was the Chef's favorite beer.

 

[carnevoodoo]

I am drinking a bud heavy. Poured it into a cubs old style mug. I think the beer is about two years old. Nothing is wrong with it, despite the age. My father in law is a whisky guy,and I'm watching football at his place. He keeps the beer cool in his basement. My BIL swears its bad because its old. He's a bud light guy. So many are hoodwinked into the freshness BS.

When I was up at Sierra Nevada, we did a blind taste side by side of a fresh SNPA and one that was aged 4 months. They weren't even the same beer. Age matters.

 

[Schlenkerla]

When I was up at Sierra Nevada, we did a blind taste side by side of a fresh SNPA and one that was aged 4 months. They weren't even the same beer. Age matters.

I'm not saying that it doesn't change. Its not like a gallon of milk past its sell date. My BIL makes it out as if its nasty rotten stuff.

Bud is pastuerized so its pretty much dead when its packaged. Its not going to change much over time. Now SNPA is naturally carbed. Its alive. It's a totally different animal.

 

[rawlus]

for the record, wine consumption is down in many european countries, esp france, because the younger generation associates wine with old people (their parents and grandparents) - among younger people, it is much more a cocktail and beer culture.

 

[jiggs_casey]

Can't speak for the more expensive places around here but, we have a pizza joint here that has a fairly decent list of beers on their list! http://www.waldopizza.net/

That and with a $7.00 lunch buffet, can't beat it...