Is my smack pack still viable?

[IslandLizard]

Just don't forget to release the lid after each shaking.

That's why I suggested, after each shaking, to replace the screw cap with a sanitized aluminum foil "tent" so you just know gasses can freely exchange. Generated CO2 being able to escape being most important, or else... boom!

Just keep some sanitizer (e.g., Starsan) on hand.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That seems like a pretty big starter for an older pack of yeast. I would have gone smaller and weaker for a few days then bumped it up. It might take a few days for activity to be noticeable.

+1 on all of that. The usual recommendation is to go in 10x steps by volume, 1800ml is too much of a jump - it's just a bit lost in there at the moment. And certainly with my multi-year-old packs I start with 5% DME for the first one and then step up to 10% DME (~1.040) - it just reduces the stress on old cells.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 on all of that. The usual recommendation is to go in 10x steps by volume, 1800ml is too much of a jump - it's just a bit lost in there at the moment. And certainly with my multi-year-old packs I start with 5% DME for the first one and then step up to 10% DME (~1.040) - it just reduces the stress on old cells.

Ideally, yup, that would have been the much better strategy!

Since the OP already made an 1.8 liter starter, there's no going back from that.
He can make the best of what he has now, and hopefully it will take off.

 

[beren]

Yeah, I’d let it go at least a week looking for results, hopefully he didn’t brew yet.

 

[SaisonMan]

Yeah, I’d let it go at least a week looking for results, hopefully he didn’t brew yet.

I didn't. Lesson learned, though.

 

[IslandLizard]

That seems like a pretty big starter for an older pack of yeast. I would have gone smaller and weaker for a few days then bumped it up. It might take a few days for activity to be noticeable.

+1 on all of that. The usual recommendation is to go in 10x steps by volume, 1800ml is too much of a jump - it's just a bit lost in there at the moment. And certainly with my multi-year-old packs I start with 5% DME for the first one and then step up to 10% DME (~1.040) - it just reduces the stress on old cells.

You both suggested these step-up strategies earlier in the thread in early June, almost a month back.
For homebrewers not used to liquid (wet) yeast, making yeast starters (and step-ups) can be a somewhat murky subject.

My first encounter using liquid yeast (back in 2009) speaks volumes to that, making a 5 gallon batch of Lager, my 2nd brew, with a single WhiteLabs tube I got in my homebrew store...

 

[beren]

Yeah I never did a smaller or weaker starter for weak/old yeast until I read about harvesting yeast from bottles. I’d just make a 1l starter for everything and let it go as long as it needed. Sometimes I’d decant and make a 2nd 1l starter which almost always was fast and strong.

 

[SaisonMan]

Update to the update: There is foam now after a swirl and yeast on the bottom of the flask when it’s resting. The growler is dark and hard to see well, but I assume the yeast is doing its thing there, too.

I’m thinking of cold crashing in a few days. Should I combine the two starters into the flask? Or does that risk contamination? My concern about cold crashing the growler is that it’ll be almost impossible to see where the yeast line is when I go to dump the unwanted starter beer before adding it to the fermenter.

 

[IslandLizard]

Looking good! ^

Should I combine the two starters into the flask?

Keep them growing as they are, in 2 vessels. Keep swirling/shaking.

Integrating O2 into the starter (beer) is important, as it will keep the yeast in propagation (growing) mode, making more new, healthy cells. That's what you want at this point.

When it's time to cold crash, you can combine them into the flask, so decanting later will be easier.

 

[SaisonMan]

Nice. Thanks for all the help. I ordered another smack pack of 2278 as a backup in case there aren't enough cells when it's fermenting. I figure I win either way.

 

[IslandLizard]

I ordered another smack pack of 2278 as a backup in case there aren't enough cells when it's fermenting. I figure I win either way.

Adding a pack at that time would most likely be a bit too late. One pack is not enough to ferment 5 gallons of Lager, even it was packaged that same day. Most packs we get in the homebrew stores and mail order are 2-4 month old, on average. That why we make starters well ahead of brewday. That starter also helps us getting the right pitch amount.

Now if you make a starter with that new pack a few days before you brew, that would be your backup. If it turns out you don't need it, save the starter or yeast slurry in the fridge for a next brew.

BTW, since both starters are from the same pack and starter wort, then split, your flask is your tell tale, while we can presume the growler is behaving similarly, or even better as your using the s-n-s method instead of intermittently swirling.

 

[beren]

Since you have an extra pack, might wanna look into starting a yeast bank. It's way cheaper than buying $12-15 packs. Depending on how often yuo use each yeast you could just keep a 1l slurry in a mason jar, or go full on frozen like Maintaining A Healthy Yeast Bank Long Term

 

[SaisonMan]

Five days after beginning the starter and about 10 hours after beginning the cold crash.

 

[beren]

de-gas it and it'll drop clear. Then you can decant and make another starter or do whatever you want with it

 

[IslandLizard]

Five days after beginning the starter and about 10 hours after beginning the cold crash.

That looks decent for a swirled starter. The thin white layer is the best, most pure yeast; the darker layer underneath is a mixture of that same pure yeast as well as dead cells and trub. At this point, all of it is useful.

After crashing a little longer and decanting, I'd make another starter with the leftover slurry. Then you'll have enough for a good solid 5 gallon Lager pitch and save some (20-30%) out for the next starter.

If you brew often enough look into a stir plate. You could even build one, and while at it, build 2, or a twin setup.

BTW, I just cooked up another batch of 4 gallons concentrated (1.092) starter wort. I'm freezing most of it in 48 oz tubs. At time of use they get diluted 1.5x for 1.037 starter wort. Reboiled for all security.

 

[SaisonMan]

That looks decent for a swirled starter. The thin white layer is the best, most pure yeast; the darker layer underneath is a mixture of that same pure yeast as well as dead cells and trub. At this point, all of it is useful.

After crashing a little longer and decanting, I'd make another starter with the leftover slurry. Then you'll have enough for a good solid 5 gallon Lager pitch and save some (20-30%) out for the next starter.

If you brew often enough look into a stir plate. You could even build one, and while at it, build 2, or a twin setup.

BTW, I just cooked up another batch of 4 gallons concentrated (1.092) starter wort. I'm freezing most of it in 48 oz tubs. At time of use they get diluted 1.5x for 1.037 starter wort. Reboiled for all security.

A stir plate will be my next purchase. I never considered a repetitive motion injury a possibility when I got into homebrewing.

 

[beren]

A stir plate will be my next purchase. I never considered a repetitive motion injury a possibility when I got into homebrewing.

Need more keg presses.

 

[SaisonMan]

Need more keg presses.

No doubt!

 

[beren]

A stir plate will be my next purchase. I never considered a repetitive motion injury a possibility when I got into homebrewing.

One thing I noticed with the cheaper stir plates is the magnets don't seem super strong, and they are closer together which limits larger stir bars. Even in starters I feel like I should be able to go faster than I can before the bar gets thrown off the magnet. It works though!

 

[SaisonMan]

A belated update: The yeast worked just fine, with most of the activity in the first five or six days. The gravity has been at 1.012 for about a week. Thanks for all the help and advice. I learned a lot!

 

[IslandLizard]

A belated update: The yeast worked just fine, with most of the activity in the first five or six days. The gravity has been at 1.012 for about a week. Thanks for all the help and advice. I learned a lot!

Although pitching a good size starter never disappoints, it's good to hear the fermentation was successful!
Are you going to save (some of) the yeast for a next batch? I hope so, especially with modern day yeast pricing. Yowsers!

 

[SaisonMan]

Not this time. I have so many things I need to dial in as a newb that I don’t need one more thing right now!!!

 

[IslandLizard]

Not this time. I have so many things I need to dial in as a newb that I don’t need one more thing right now!!!

hmm... it's really simple.

1. After racking the finished clear beer into a bottling bucket or keg, leave the yeast and trub behind on the bottom of the fermenter.
2. You then swirl it up, into a homogeneous slurry, making sure all the yeast stuck to the bottom is brought into suspension.
3. Then just pour some or all of the slurry into a few pint or quart size mason jars. Cap, label, and store in the fridge.

Use good sanitation of course.